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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #110 - Building Ownership & Foreign Investment

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Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 Dev Diary!

After last week’s look at Power Blocs, we are going to take a look at another major set of changes that are going to arrive with Sphere of Influence and the free 1.7 update.

Namely, a revision of the Building Ownership system and what it allows us to do: Foreign Investment, a much requested feature which makes its debut in 1.7.

You will see that the changes we are making impact your visibility of ownership and the affected Pops throughout the game.

To understand all the mechanics we will be looking at an example country in the heart of Europe.

Ownership types​

It’s 1836. In Bavaria, a proud member of the Zollverein Power Bloc, all buildings are owned by the state or the workers themselves.

Capitalists, Aristocrats, and Clergymen no longer work in these buildings, and most of the Shopkeepers no longer work in production buildings directly. In addition, the Ownership Production Methods have been removed. Instead, ownership works on a per level basis, allowing a mixed ownership structure in the same building.

A popular Logging Camp it seems. Workers, a Financial District and a Manor House own a part.
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In worker-owned buildings employees work for themselves basically. So any dividends they may accumulate, they split amongst themselves. This is the default at game start for many countries (not all) and is a state which you can more or less return to at a later stage of the game with the enactment of Cooperative Ownership, which will expropriate your privately owned buildings over time.

One major exception from the ownership situation at game start are subsistence farms which are owned by a new building we are introducing: Manor Houses.

Now they lounge around in luxury, instead of slumming it with the common folks in less refined taste buildings, we wouldn't want their shoes to be dirtied on a subsistence farm!
Manor Houses are able to own levels of other buildings, in our case at game start all the levels of Subsistence Farms in their own states. They pay their wages and dividends by collecting dividends from the buildings they own and distributing them among their employees.
What type and how many employees they have is determined by a limited set of PMs.

Clergymen or Aristocrats? You can’t get rid of both of them!
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So you can see there are still jobs for Clergymen. What about the Shopkeepers and Capitalists?
Well, they work in the new Financial District buildings, which behave pretty much like the Manor Houses. They too have different employment PMs, can own levels of other buildings and pay their employees by collecting dividends from owned building levels.

Both new buildings expand automatically, depending on how many levels they own. For example if a new level of a privately owned factory is created, a corresponding new level of a Financial District is also generated.

All building levels that you construct are country-owned. Under certain laws, this status can change soon after they are finished constructing. Country-owned buildings come with reduced Economy of Scale bonuses and a bureaucracy cost for each level you own. But in return they can provide additional income based on the building’s dividends which partially get transferred to your treasury.

Not all buildings can be of any ownership type of course, for example barracks or government administrations will always be country-owned.

Summing up, there are now three types of ownership for any building level:
  • Worker owned
  • Privately owned (Financial Districts and Manor Houses)
  • Country owned

If all buildings in Bavaria are owned by the workers or the country itself, how do the first Financial Districts appear, you may wonder!

The main way to get that to happen is the next point on our agenda.

Privatization​

Enter Privatization, whereby you allow country-owned buildings to be sold to Pops.

If you are short on cash, Privatization might help you
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This makes it possible for your Pops to acquire them. Depending on the type of building you are privatizing, they usually get bought either by Aristocrats or Capitalists, using the investment pool’s funds.
If you don’t have any capitalists in your country yet, other Pops may step up though, using the investment pool’s funds to buy a building you put up for sale and become Capitalists in the process, which in turn leads to the first Financial District appearing.

The money will be transferred from the investment pool to your country’s treasury once that happens. The cost of buying a level is determined by its construction cost and is modified by most of the Economic System laws. These laws also affect the efficiency of these transactions, meaning how much money is lost as overhead and how much is being reinvested into the investment pool or the treasury.
One particularly interesting law is Laissez-Faire which upon enactment forces all your country-owned buildings to be put up for sale and will automatically do so for every new building level you construct. Similarly, enactment of other laws like Cooperative Ownership and Command Economy doesn’t immediately change the ownership of all buildings, but rather can start a process that can convert your economy over time.

Insert witty joke about the free market here
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Now let’s take a look at how the different ownership model affects investments from your Pops.

Investment​

The existing logic for how the private investment pool works remains similar to before. So, different Pop types still have different priorities and they will look at factors like estimated productivity, available workforce etc.
When a building is about to be constructed by private investment, we randomly determine who is building it, favoring already existing Financial Districts and Manor Houses over creating new ones.

In a worker-owned economy, the private investment pool will continue to function, but they will only expand their own buildings, not create new ones.

An important fact with this system is that investments do not need to be local. A Financial District or Manor House can invest in any of your country’s states, including your colonies overseas.
This system will create a flow of money from the colonies to your homelands, a stronger centralization of wealth and power and it will end the status of colonies’ Pops making more money than your Pops at home.

Of course the non-local investments also come with some challenges with regards to other countries.

It looks like Prussia has heard about that option and has started investing in your country!

“First they took our chairs, then the tables we used to eat at. What’s next? Our beds?!”
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Foreign Investment​

There are a few ways to acquire Foreign Investment Rights.

First of all, overlords can always invest in their subjects. This is part of the free 1.7 update and will allow you to do Foreign Investment where it matters the most, even if you do not own Sphere of Influence.

Then there are three diplomatic pacts which you can use if you have bought the expansion:
  1. Mutual Investment Rights which allows both countries to invest in each other
  2. One-directional Investment Rights in either direction, so you either demand to be allowed to invest in their country or offer another country to invest in yours

The [redacted] has been [redacted]. We shall see its effects on the 11. of April.
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There is also a Power Bloc Principle group that deals with Foreign Investment which on Tier 3 has the consequence of being able to invest in any member country.

No matter how you got the Investment Rights, you and also your Pops will be able to invest in the target country. Private investment does consider foreign states as potential targets for their expansions, allowing them to build profitable buildings more easily.

As nice as it is that Prussia has invested in new buildings in Bavaria, I don’t think we can let them get away with diverting the profits to Berlin instead of our own population!

Nationalization​

Nationalization allows you to take control of foreign assets in your country. You cannot nationalize other countries’ assets as long as they possess Foreign Investment rights in your country.

Once that is no longer the case, e.g. if Bavaria left the Zollverein Power Bloc, you can peacefully nationalize their building levels in your country. For that you need to pay a sum of money from your treasury. Similarly to Privatization, the sum is determined by the construction cost + modifiers from laws.

You will also be able to nationalize your own Pops’ building levels, both worker-owned and privately owned, if you’d like to take ownership. Nationalization is not seen positively by the affected Pops of course and will radicalize them.

“We should compensate them to reduce the quarrels.”
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But what if the Bavarian coffers are empty yet you still want to take over that juicy productive Furniture Manufacturies that is owned by Prussia?

Well, there is always an alternative.

“Pay them? I don’t think so!”
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You can demand nationalization of a country’s assets in your country. If they accept, their building levels’ ownership changes to your country. If they don’t, you can try and enforce it as a wargoal. If you are successful, you will also remove their Foreign Investment Rights for your country in addition to taking control of their buildings in your country.

Building Registry​

To visualize all these new mechanics, we are introducing the Building Registry, which allows you a customizable look at your country’s situation.

All the building data one could wish for
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This is a major new UI, that similar to the Census Data window, comes with a lot of functionality to filter the available data. Only show buildings outside your country? Sure. See all buildings that are owned by Pops and which are currently not hiring but not fully employed? No problem.

Lots of filter groups to browse through
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We hope you find this as useful as we do. You can access it via the button on the bottom of the Buildings panel.

Really recommend pressing that button
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Implications for the Directly Controlled Investment Pool Game Rule​

As you can imagine, this new system of ownership, geographic wealth extraction, and privatization/nationalization has far-reaching implications on the economic foundations of Victoria 3. It enables a lot of interesting dynamics we haven't been able to model until this time and adds a whole new dimension to your economic laws.

It also comes with the consequence of making the Directly Controlled Investment Pool game rule that we introduced with 1.2 (as a legacy alternative to the new Autonomous Investment system) impossible to maintain. In 1.6 and prior, if this game rule was turned on, the player would be directing all construction efforts. As long as there was money in the investment pool and the construction queue was building a privately-owned building, the cost of construction goods would be coming out of the investment pool first before being carried by the state budget. With the new rules for building ownership, investment rights, and so on in 1.7 this no longer makes sense - there's now a very clear distinction between a building project initiated by a private investor and the state, a potential source of conflict innate to both foreign ownership and the privatization/nationalization mechanics, and even differences between owners in different regions that cannot be represented if all construction projects were player-initiated.

Because of this it no longer makes sense for players to be in charge of both public and private investments simultaneously, and as such the Directly Controlled Investment Pool rule has had to be removed for 1.7 and beyond. While we can't support non-default game rules to the same degree as the standard options, removing a game rule completely is not something we'd ever do without good cause. We know that a smaller fraction of you favored this setting so we want to be clear with why its removal was a necessity to move forward with these improvements to ownership and foreign expansion.

Outlook​

I would like to end today’s Dev Diary by providing a short outlook for what these changes also enable us to do in the future.

The main thing here is affecting Companies.

The way we have reworked ownership allows us to create Company headquarter buildings which can then own specific building levels of industries they care about, determining its profitability from and providing their throughput bonuses only to these. While we cannot provide a concrete timeline for that change at this point, it is something we would like to tackle for one of our next free updates.

That’s it for today. Check back next week when Mikael is going to walk you through what changes 1.7 and Sphere of Influence brings to relations and interactions between Overlords and Subjects, including how these foreign investment mechanics relate to your grip over your extended empire.

Overview for all upcoming Dev Diaries:
Date Topic
4th AprilSubject Interactions
11th AprilLobbies and More on Power Blocs
18th AprilThe Great Game
25th AprilThe Art of Sphere of Influence
2nd MayChangelog 1.7
 
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Does the resources (Oil etc) produced through foreign investment go to the host country or the country investing in the mine?

For example, let’s say as UK I build oil mines in and independent Mexico in California. Does the oil produced there split between the Mexican and UK governments depending on how many levels they own, or does all of the oil go to the Mexican Market?
No the goods only go to the Mexican market. The UK get profits only. But if you're in a position to negotiate foreign investment then your probably in a position to negotiate a trade deal.
 
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An idea for companies : have a "company" essentially be a unique financial district that can only own certain buildings. So the company owns certain buildings and has company workers. It can scale with level and be in multiple states too.
 
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No the goods only go to the Mexican market. The UK get profits only. But if you're in a position to negotiate foreign investment then your probably in a position to negotiate a trade deal.
Aw that’s a shame. I was hoping that they could rig a system where u can get oil at a proportionate amount based on the ownership, but it might be too complex to do.
 
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If I wish to downsize a building, would I need to nationalize it first ?
Like I want to destroy move the arms industry of newly conquered states. Or remove the competition centralise the paper industry away from annexed Benin. I would need to nationalize it first ?

Really really glad that a failsafe of automatic downsizing has finally been implemented. It makes mid and late game so much more potentially enjoyable.
Yes, if you want to control it, you need to take it over. As mentioned, with the automatic downsizing we'd hope there's fewer cases at least where this becomes relevant.
 
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Something I did not understand quite well is what happens to my country foreign buildings should I decide to enact command economy.

Say I'm playing France and go communist, can I nationalise my foreign buildings in the same way of my own national ones? Am I forced to do so? Will the host country react to a communist government hostile takeovef of their assets?

Thanks!
You can nationalize these buildings as you'd nationalize any other building.
You are not forced to do so.
There's no casus belli created at this point which would allow such a reaction. We may take a look at this for the future, but no guarantee.
 
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Good changes I em exited to see. I had expected a bit longer dev diary for such a fundamental change though. Not that it matters. It is clear enough.

Anyway two questions:

  • Will laws affect foreign investment? For example will protectionism prohibit foreign investment?
You cannot set up foreign investment pacts if you have Isolationism. It's fine under Protectionism though. In the end it's still your choice.
  • Would it be possible to limit investment rights to specific sectors? For example to just agriculture? Or resource extraction? Or even more specific such as just oil or tobacco? That would make concessionary politics a bit more interesting I think if you could try to balance foreign influence between various investors. Or would allow you to shield certain sectors of the economy from foreign investment, which could perhaps be tied into lobbies or interest groups (i.e. rural folk don't mind mining being open to foreign investment, but would hate agriculture being open to foreign investment)?
Not going to come with release at least, but it's an interesting idea at least. Could be a nice addition for the future. As usual, no guarantee, but I'll bring it up in the design team. Thanks! :)
 
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I might be too late to the Party but still 3 questions:

1. Can my nation own buildings in foreign countries or only my pops?
Yep, you or your Pops can own buildings in foreign countries.
2. You mentioned that there is a weighted random function to determine which financial center / manor house owns a new build/privatized building. Is that formular moddable? So I can ensure a high concentration of financial power in my capital?
Not moddable at this point I'm afraid. It basically looks at state population size to determine the chance. We may revisit this in the future.
3. If a country conquers a state with a lot of ownership buildings, they will suddenly own most remaining buildings in the losing state? Maybe (in the future) you can model some kind of capital refugees. If a Communist country would conquer London, I doubt all tha capitalists would accept to just live in the new country. There is nothing holding them in London, when there capital is mostly in buildings in other Britain States.
Well, if you conquer ownership buildings, you don't own the buildings. The Pops employed by them will still remain the owners. Apart from that nothing changes compared to how it works right now already where you also take control of all the buildings.
Yeah, maybe we can refine the behaviour in the future :)
With that said: this is my most hyped change since release!

And if you're already in the Easter weekend: enjoy your free time :) @PDX_H4n1baL
Thanks, it was good :)
 
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Curious lets say I'm Russia wich currently has a limited supply of sulfur. Lets say I had the dutch east indies in my market. Could I invest in sulfur mines and make them build them? Or would only my pops be able to do it instead of the player themselves.
You can invest as a country and build the sulfur mines if you have secured investment rights.
 
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The most juicy dev diary for me (yet!). Thank you for all the responses in this thread.


Here are 2 small questions:


1. You've mentioned that building a Steel Mill in Japan as GB is dependant on GB having the technology for it. What happens with buildings for untapped resources like oil or rubber? Say I am GB investing into Venezuela, seeking Rubber and Oil, but Venezuela does not have Rubber Mastication or Pumpjacks technology. How is this conundrum solved? Personally, I'd be alright with flat out giving Venezuela the tech if needed.
I believe I mentioned somewhere that the resource discovery topic will be discussed in the design team. No timeline at this point.

2. In the case of gold mines, where does the minting go?
It should go to the owning building/country.
 
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Thanks for the info, and of course your work. :)
Thanks!
Regarding the construction itself: Will there be maluses / bonuses regarding the necessary construction costs (and points and time) for building something in a foreign country with different (inferior) tech levels?
Yes, there's a reduced construction efficiency. I believe the value is currently set to 80% and can be easily tweaked if we find it's not bad enough.
 
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Absolutely splendid dev diary that resparks my joy and interest in the game.

I have two questions:
1. What, if anything, happens with dividend transfers when the investor country and invested in country are ar war unrelated to nationalisation? I think it would be very odd if the transfers continued.
2. Will you be able to decide from whom exactly you want to take sector levels' ownership? What if I want to nationalise only worker-owned levels, but they are chronologically intermingled with, say, financial district-owned levels?
3. How numerous will be manors and financial districts? Will most aristocrats and capitalists in UK live in Middlesex, with none in Wales?
Two questions, four answers :D
1. It would be odd, but I fear that's what is happening right now. We'll see what we can do about it going forward.
2. No, at this point you cannot concretely choose. I believe I've mentioned in another reply that we'd like to adress it at some point soonish after release.
3. Not sure how to answer the numerous question. What do you consider numerous? :) Depending on the country, there may be 0 financial district or hundreds. Capitalists will be mostly bunched up in the big cities with the aristocrats being a bit more spread out. The subsistence farms on their own require some to be local already.
 
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From what I understand foreign investment is "opt-in" (unless you're a subject), and I was thinking that maybe some laws (like Laissez-Faire or Free Trade or a combination of both or something else), would make it so effectively anyone could invest in your country even without a diplo pact, or remove the influence cost to maintain the pact
I see. Yeah, could be an idea to consider for the future. We will see where we end up.
 
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Will be all those artificial limitations gone?
No need to kneecap minting (make it smaller instead), bolster/suppress investment pool and government dividends at low/high GDP.


REINVESTMENT_EFFICIENCY_MAX = 3.0 # Maximum conversion of reinvestment to investment pool
REINVESTMENT_EFFICIENCY_MIN = 0.3 # Minimum conversion of reinvestment to investment pool
REINVESTMENT_FALLOFF_START = 10000000 # Below this amount of GDP, increase reinvestment multiplier on a linear scale up to REINVESTMENT_EFFICIENCY_MAX at 0
REINVESTMENT_FALLOFF_END = 2000000000 # Above REINVESTMENT_FALLOFF_START but below this, apply minimum reinvestment multiplier on a linear scale down to REINVESTMENT_EFFICIENCY_MIN, above this always use REINVESTMENT_EFFICIENCY_MIN

GOVERNMENT_DIVIDENDS_EFFICIENCY_MIN = 0.2 # Minimum dividend fraction from buildings with government shares that will reach the treasury - the rest will be wasted
GOVERNMENT_DIVIDENDS_FALLOFF_START = 10000000 # Below this amount of GDP, no government dividends will be wasted
GOVERNMENT_DIVIDENDS_FALLOFF_END = 2000000000 # Above GOVERNMENT_DIVIDENDS_FALLOFF_START but below this, apply minimum reinvestment multiplier on a linear scale down to GOVERNMENT_DIVIDENDS_FALLOFF_END, above this always use GOVERNMENT_DIVIDENDS_FALLOFF_END

COUNTRY_GDP_MODIFIER_MAX_MULTIPLIER = 200000 # The country_gdp modifier multiplier cannot be higher than this
 
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Yeah I spent some time thinking about this for you free of charge! ;)

But yeah its complex because in your current setup you'd have to splinter pops out into which building levels they work at instead of just which building which would essentially exponentially increase the amount of unique "buildings" you have pops working at. You could of course just throw in the towel and pay all pops working in a state an average wage of all the aggregated buildings but then how do you decide on hiring when evaluating profitability? Yeah its messy but there's gotta be a solution because automation should be controlled at the company level.
Yeah, you have correctly identified two pretty major problems. Now what if I told you there's 7 more? :D
It's a beast of a problem to tackle. But we would like to one day.
 
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During initial testing we discovered that nationalization felt like an auto-click button basically that you would always want to press. So we added more consequences on all ends pretty much.
Personally, I think it does make sense that government-run buildings work less efficiently. If the private sector were in charge of a government's bureaucratic system for example, it would very likely see efficiency improvements. But maybe that's just a faulty perception being a German ;)
In any case, we will keep an eye on this feedback when SoI releases of course and are happy to adjust it if it really doesn't work well.
I imagined it’d just be that country owned levels would just employ bureaucrats and use paper on site (late game replacing some of both with telephones) while also using up a little bureaucracy in general. But might create a problem calculating dividends in buildings with mixed ownership?
 
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1. Skyscrapers are still there. The Trade Nexus PM provides a trade route quantity multiplier, so I'm not sure how it would relate? Is this in relation to question 5? If so, see answer on that :D
2. Yep, there can be as many manor houses and financial districts as you have states. There's a random chance function to determine where it spawns.
3. Depends what you mean with each of these terms. Any country-owned buildings' ownership is transferred to the winning country, no matter where the building is located. Any privately-owned buildings remain in place and they also keep their possessions, no matter where they are.
4. Nothing changes for unique buildings pretty much
5. Not with release of SoI at least. We do have very cool new 3d models for these financial districts though. We could theoretically think about turning them into a skyscraper if size is above 100 and you have all the tech etc. for example, but it's nothing we're planning at this point.
Well, so, capitalists in Alsace own shipyards in Provence, then Alsace is conquered by the Germans. Does the financial center in Alsace still own those shipyards?
 
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1. There is a reduction in the number of Pops as a result of this change, yes. The later in the game, the more noticeable the reduction. But I would be careful with expecting a significant performance gain from this. It helps, but will not move the needle enough on its own.
2. Yeah, they are able to. We will have to keep an eye on this to see how bad this gets and see if we need to react.
Maybe an event after the revolt loses? Although I imagine it’s hard to track the changes from during it.
 
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