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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #110 - Building Ownership & Foreign Investment

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Hello and welcome to another Victoria 3 Dev Diary!

After last week’s look at Power Blocs, we are going to take a look at another major set of changes that are going to arrive with Sphere of Influence and the free 1.7 update.

Namely, a revision of the Building Ownership system and what it allows us to do: Foreign Investment, a much requested feature which makes its debut in 1.7.

You will see that the changes we are making impact your visibility of ownership and the affected Pops throughout the game.

To understand all the mechanics we will be looking at an example country in the heart of Europe.

Ownership types​

It’s 1836. In Bavaria, a proud member of the Zollverein Power Bloc, all buildings are owned by the state or the workers themselves.

Capitalists, Aristocrats, and Clergymen no longer work in these buildings, and most of the Shopkeepers no longer work in production buildings directly. In addition, the Ownership Production Methods have been removed. Instead, ownership works on a per level basis, allowing a mixed ownership structure in the same building.

A popular Logging Camp it seems. Workers, a Financial District and a Manor House own a part.
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In worker-owned buildings employees work for themselves basically. So any dividends they may accumulate, they split amongst themselves. This is the default at game start for many countries (not all) and is a state which you can more or less return to at a later stage of the game with the enactment of Cooperative Ownership, which will expropriate your privately owned buildings over time.

One major exception from the ownership situation at game start are subsistence farms which are owned by a new building we are introducing: Manor Houses.

Now they lounge around in luxury, instead of slumming it with the common folks in less refined taste buildings, we wouldn't want their shoes to be dirtied on a subsistence farm!
Manor Houses are able to own levels of other buildings, in our case at game start all the levels of Subsistence Farms in their own states. They pay their wages and dividends by collecting dividends from the buildings they own and distributing them among their employees.
What type and how many employees they have is determined by a limited set of PMs.

Clergymen or Aristocrats? You can’t get rid of both of them!
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So you can see there are still jobs for Clergymen. What about the Shopkeepers and Capitalists?
Well, they work in the new Financial District buildings, which behave pretty much like the Manor Houses. They too have different employment PMs, can own levels of other buildings and pay their employees by collecting dividends from owned building levels.

Both new buildings expand automatically, depending on how many levels they own. For example if a new level of a privately owned factory is created, a corresponding new level of a Financial District is also generated.

All building levels that you construct are country-owned. Under certain laws, this status can change soon after they are finished constructing. Country-owned buildings come with reduced Economy of Scale bonuses and a bureaucracy cost for each level you own. But in return they can provide additional income based on the building’s dividends which partially get transferred to your treasury.

Not all buildings can be of any ownership type of course, for example barracks or government administrations will always be country-owned.

Summing up, there are now three types of ownership for any building level:
  • Worker owned
  • Privately owned (Financial Districts and Manor Houses)
  • Country owned

If all buildings in Bavaria are owned by the workers or the country itself, how do the first Financial Districts appear, you may wonder!

The main way to get that to happen is the next point on our agenda.

Privatization​

Enter Privatization, whereby you allow country-owned buildings to be sold to Pops.

If you are short on cash, Privatization might help you
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This makes it possible for your Pops to acquire them. Depending on the type of building you are privatizing, they usually get bought either by Aristocrats or Capitalists, using the investment pool’s funds.
If you don’t have any capitalists in your country yet, other Pops may step up though, using the investment pool’s funds to buy a building you put up for sale and become Capitalists in the process, which in turn leads to the first Financial District appearing.

The money will be transferred from the investment pool to your country’s treasury once that happens. The cost of buying a level is determined by its construction cost and is modified by most of the Economic System laws. These laws also affect the efficiency of these transactions, meaning how much money is lost as overhead and how much is being reinvested into the investment pool or the treasury.
One particularly interesting law is Laissez-Faire which upon enactment forces all your country-owned buildings to be put up for sale and will automatically do so for every new building level you construct. Similarly, enactment of other laws like Cooperative Ownership and Command Economy doesn’t immediately change the ownership of all buildings, but rather can start a process that can convert your economy over time.

Insert witty joke about the free market here
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Now let’s take a look at how the different ownership model affects investments from your Pops.

Investment​

The existing logic for how the private investment pool works remains similar to before. So, different Pop types still have different priorities and they will look at factors like estimated productivity, available workforce etc.
When a building is about to be constructed by private investment, we randomly determine who is building it, favoring already existing Financial Districts and Manor Houses over creating new ones.

In a worker-owned economy, the private investment pool will continue to function, but they will only expand their own buildings, not create new ones.

An important fact with this system is that investments do not need to be local. A Financial District or Manor House can invest in any of your country’s states, including your colonies overseas.
This system will create a flow of money from the colonies to your homelands, a stronger centralization of wealth and power and it will end the status of colonies’ Pops making more money than your Pops at home.

Of course the non-local investments also come with some challenges with regards to other countries.

It looks like Prussia has heard about that option and has started investing in your country!

“First they took our chairs, then the tables we used to eat at. What’s next? Our beds?!”
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Foreign Investment​

There are a few ways to acquire Foreign Investment Rights.

First of all, overlords can always invest in their subjects. This is part of the free 1.7 update and will allow you to do Foreign Investment where it matters the most, even if you do not own Sphere of Influence.

Then there are three diplomatic pacts which you can use if you have bought the expansion:
  1. Mutual Investment Rights which allows both countries to invest in each other
  2. One-directional Investment Rights in either direction, so you either demand to be allowed to invest in their country or offer another country to invest in yours

The [redacted] has been [redacted]. We shall see its effects on the 11. of April.
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There is also a Power Bloc Principle group that deals with Foreign Investment which on Tier 3 has the consequence of being able to invest in any member country.

No matter how you got the Investment Rights, you and also your Pops will be able to invest in the target country. Private investment does consider foreign states as potential targets for their expansions, allowing them to build profitable buildings more easily.

As nice as it is that Prussia has invested in new buildings in Bavaria, I don’t think we can let them get away with diverting the profits to Berlin instead of our own population!

Nationalization​

Nationalization allows you to take control of foreign assets in your country. You cannot nationalize other countries’ assets as long as they possess Foreign Investment rights in your country.

Once that is no longer the case, e.g. if Bavaria left the Zollverein Power Bloc, you can peacefully nationalize their building levels in your country. For that you need to pay a sum of money from your treasury. Similarly to Privatization, the sum is determined by the construction cost + modifiers from laws.

You will also be able to nationalize your own Pops’ building levels, both worker-owned and privately owned, if you’d like to take ownership. Nationalization is not seen positively by the affected Pops of course and will radicalize them.

“We should compensate them to reduce the quarrels.”
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But what if the Bavarian coffers are empty yet you still want to take over that juicy productive Furniture Manufacturies that is owned by Prussia?

Well, there is always an alternative.

“Pay them? I don’t think so!”
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You can demand nationalization of a country’s assets in your country. If they accept, their building levels’ ownership changes to your country. If they don’t, you can try and enforce it as a wargoal. If you are successful, you will also remove their Foreign Investment Rights for your country in addition to taking control of their buildings in your country.

Building Registry​

To visualize all these new mechanics, we are introducing the Building Registry, which allows you a customizable look at your country’s situation.

All the building data one could wish for
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This is a major new UI, that similar to the Census Data window, comes with a lot of functionality to filter the available data. Only show buildings outside your country? Sure. See all buildings that are owned by Pops and which are currently not hiring but not fully employed? No problem.

Lots of filter groups to browse through
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We hope you find this as useful as we do. You can access it via the button on the bottom of the Buildings panel.

Really recommend pressing that button
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Implications for the Directly Controlled Investment Pool Game Rule​

As you can imagine, this new system of ownership, geographic wealth extraction, and privatization/nationalization has far-reaching implications on the economic foundations of Victoria 3. It enables a lot of interesting dynamics we haven't been able to model until this time and adds a whole new dimension to your economic laws.

It also comes with the consequence of making the Directly Controlled Investment Pool game rule that we introduced with 1.2 (as a legacy alternative to the new Autonomous Investment system) impossible to maintain. In 1.6 and prior, if this game rule was turned on, the player would be directing all construction efforts. As long as there was money in the investment pool and the construction queue was building a privately-owned building, the cost of construction goods would be coming out of the investment pool first before being carried by the state budget. With the new rules for building ownership, investment rights, and so on in 1.7 this no longer makes sense - there's now a very clear distinction between a building project initiated by a private investor and the state, a potential source of conflict innate to both foreign ownership and the privatization/nationalization mechanics, and even differences between owners in different regions that cannot be represented if all construction projects were player-initiated.

Because of this it no longer makes sense for players to be in charge of both public and private investments simultaneously, and as such the Directly Controlled Investment Pool rule has had to be removed for 1.7 and beyond. While we can't support non-default game rules to the same degree as the standard options, removing a game rule completely is not something we'd ever do without good cause. We know that a smaller fraction of you favored this setting so we want to be clear with why its removal was a necessity to move forward with these improvements to ownership and foreign expansion.

Outlook​

I would like to end today’s Dev Diary by providing a short outlook for what these changes also enable us to do in the future.

The main thing here is affecting Companies.

The way we have reworked ownership allows us to create Company headquarter buildings which can then own specific building levels of industries they care about, determining its profitability from and providing their throughput bonuses only to these. While we cannot provide a concrete timeline for that change at this point, it is something we would like to tackle for one of our next free updates.

That’s it for today. Check back next week when Mikael is going to walk you through what changes 1.7 and Sphere of Influence brings to relations and interactions between Overlords and Subjects, including how these foreign investment mechanics relate to your grip over your extended empire.

Overview for all upcoming Dev Diaries:
Date Topic
4th AprilSubject Interactions
11th AprilLobbies and More on Power Blocs
18th AprilThe Great Game
25th AprilThe Art of Sphere of Influence
2nd MayChangelog 1.7
 
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Will welfare payments take dividends from ownership as part of their income under account?
Currently its tied to regular income, while dividends are ignored, so with worker coop richer pops might end up getting more welfare just because wage is lower.

Can Art Academies, Trade Centers and Urban Centers be worker owned? Currently they are only ones without cooperative ownership.
 
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Well, so, capitalists in Alsace own shipyards in Provence, then Alsace is conquered by the Germans. Does the financial center in Alsace still own those shipyards?
I guess if you have investments agreement, then its reclassified as foreign ownership - levels of financial centers stay
If you don't have it then levels of financial centers are reduced as they have don't have access to shipyards, and you gain those levels in one of yours financial district hiring new capis.
 
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Well, so, capitalists in Alsace own shipyards in Provence, then Alsace is conquered by the Germans. Does the financial center in Alsace still own those shipyards?
Same question would be around your capitalist investing into industry of your subjects on your market. Once built would it be explicitly your capitalists that own the building?
 
So just to be clear, investing in a foreign country means that I can build something in them? If, say, I'm playing Britain, and I have investment rights on Persia, I can queue construction of oil rigs in Persia? Which I can then either import or benefit from if Persia is already in my market? Or do I have to rely on the AI randomly deciding to have private pops construct them?

I remember watching a Social Streamers Vicky 3 video a while ago, where he played Tunis and was constantly starved for coal. Spain was a good friend of his, but he had to attack them and conquer Valencia just so he could access the coal mines there. What I want to know is that, if that same scenario played out in 1.7, if I, as Tunis, got investment rights in Spain, could I construct coal mines in Spanish-owned Valencia, which could be owned by my own pops, but are staffed by Spanish workers, and then import the coal mined in mines I invested in back to Tunis? Or again, do I have to rely on RNG having my aristocrats and capitalists decide to make that investment?

Basically, I just want a yes/no to this (though I'd be fine with an elaboration after that): If I get investment rights in a foreign Country, can I construct buildings in their country?
 
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So just to be clear, investing in a foreign country means that I can build something in them? If, say, I'm playing Britain, and I have investment rights on Persia, I can queue construction of oil rigs in Persia? Which I can then either import or benefit from if Persia is already in my market? Or do I have to rely on the AI randomly deciding to have private pops construct them?

I remember watching a Social Streamers Vicky 3 video a while ago, where he played Tunis and was constantly starved for coal. Spain was a good friend of his, but he had to attack them and conquer Valencia just so he could access the coal mines there. What I want to know is that, if that same scenario played out in 1.7, if I, as Tunis, got investment rights in Spain, could I construct coal mines in Spanish-owned Valencia, which could be owned by my own pops, but are staffed by Spanish workers, and then import the coal mined in mines I invested in back to Tunis? Or again, do I have to rely on RNG having my aristocrats and capitalists decide to make that investment?

Basically, I just want a yes/no to this (though I'd be fine with an elaboration after that): If I get investment rights in a foreign Country, can I construct buildings in their country?
You can build coal mines, then they would be up to privatization.
Then you use power bloc to give them tech for better coal PMs (so they don't use picks while you have water tube boilers) and import coal, if they aren't in your market.
 
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You can build coal mines, then they would be up to privatization.
Then you use power bloc to give them tech for better coal PMs (so they don't use picks while you have water tube boilers) and import coal, if they aren't in your market.
I don't care about ownership in the context of this question, but I appreciate the clarification regardless. So just to double check: I'm playing Tunis, I get investment rights in Spain. Then I can click on the Spanish State of Valencia, and queue up coal mines in that state, whose construction is paid for by me. These mines will then be staffed by Spanish workers, and can be owned by either my own pops, the Spanish, or some potential 3rd party that is also capable of buying the building (say, France). And I can import the coal as needed. Correct?
 
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I don't care about ownership in the context of this question, but I appreciate the clarification regardless. So just to double check: I'm playing Tunis, I get investment rights in Spain. Then I can click on the Spanish State of Valencia, and queue up coal mines in that state, whose construction is paid for by me. These mines will then be staffed by Spanish workers, and can be owned by either my own pops, the Spanish, or some potential 3rd party that is also capable of buying the building (say, France). And I can import the coal as needed. Correct?
Yes, you can also expand it up to its potential
 
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I don't care about ownership in the context of this question, but I appreciate the clarification regardless. So just to double check: I'm playing Tunis, I get investment rights in Spain. Then I can click on the Spanish State of Valencia, and queue up coal mines in that state, whose construction is paid for by me. These mines will then be staffed by Spanish workers, and can be owned by either my own pops, the Spanish, or some potential 3rd party that is also capable of buying the building (say, France). And I can import the coal as needed. Correct?
Yes, correct.
Why the other poster made the remark about the ownership is because it is important in this context since your question was specifically if you can do it (country-based ownership) or if you need to wait for investment AI (privately-based ownership).
Just fyi: This question specifically has been answered multiple times in this thread already. There's a button "show only dev responses" at the top which you can use to go through our answers if you want to exclusively rely on them :)
 
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The DevDiary largely explains how Capitalists, Workers, Aristocrats and the State can own a building, but I am curious about two things
  • How is the PM upgrade to capitalists working now? Stuff like tools for Logging Camps or Clippers for Fishing would automatically change the ownership method of the building, away from Shopkeepers and into Capitalists. Now it seems it's gonna be a separate Financial Sector connected to it. Does the Financial Sector change who it employs on PM upgrade in "connected" building, or did this game mechanic receive changes?
  • How do Land Ownership laws work now? I assume an Aristocrat, Farmer or a Capitalist can all decide to build a plantation/farm from the start of the game, and it's gonna belong to them (to Manor House, to building itself or to a Financial Sector), so what does this law do?
 
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Yep they do, as long as the Germans don't nationalize the assets in Provence.
Which I’m assuming they could only do if the French have forgiven them enough to give investment rights? Otherwise it’s a question of whether France nationalizes what the formerly French/now German capitalists own?
 
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How ownership handles buildings that are mostly emptied out?
For example there is 100 levels of subsistence farm, but it has only 10% occupancy - that is 90 levels are unused?
Do aristocrats own all 100 levels, or only 10 levels, that have some workers?

What happens to UI if you have 100 buildings owned by financial center or manor?
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They don't. The company changes are not coming with 1.7 as I mentioned. We need to sit down and design the details once we have time for that.
Sorry i meant buildings :) kind of a mental shortcut since buildings are in my mind also groups of companies, just smaller. So the actual question is how privately owned buildings will differ from publicly traded ones now. Right now these two are separate PMs.

EDIT:
nvm, found it in one of your replies. If anyone is curious - it adds a PM to the financial district, which moves ownership to capitalists at the cost of shopkeepers.
 
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Thanks for the response.

Well, if you conquer ownership buildings, you don't own the buildings. The Pops employed by them will still remain the owners. Apart from that nothing changes compared to how it works right now already where you also take control of all the buildings.
Yeah, maybe we can refine the behaviour in the future :)
I probably phrased it badly.

If the manor houses and financial districts own most if not all buildings in the british empire, and France conquers London, they would suddenly (indirectly through the pops they conquered) own all those buildings. Which will be a huge blow to the British. While in reality nothings would holf those Building owners in London. And if they stayed i'd doubt that the british goverment qould still "honor" their claim to all these buildings.
 
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Exciting changes,

But please tell me you have more ownership building types in the pipeline.

The potential of this is great.

- Religous orders siphoning wealth to the Vatican or mount Athos

- tribal or military retinue barracks, linked to landowner or military igs with their forces determined by the wealth of their holdings

- tax exemptions by differing ownership building types

Please also tell me i can nudge the privatisation system. Full price sales to international investors and discounts for domestic would be an interesting trafe off.
 
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Yes, correct.
Why the other poster made the remark about the ownership is because it is important in this context since your question was specifically if you can do it (country-based ownership) or if you need to wait for investment AI (privately-based ownership).
Just fyi: This question specifically has been answered multiple times in this thread already. There's a button "show only dev responses" at the top which you can use to go through our answers if you want to exclusively rely on them :)
I read through the dev responses and the diary, and it still wasn't 100% clear to me up until I asked those questions. Now that it is, though, I'm definitely looking forwards to 1.7 a lot more!
 
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Yeah, you have correctly identified two pretty major problems. Now what if I told you there's 7 more? :D
It's a beast of a problem to tackle. But we would like to one day.
Well I can't identify all the problems for free :p

But, the dev team always seem to find a way to make it happen (no pressure) so I'll have some faith! Looking forward to 1.7
 
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How do company bonuses interact with foreign investment mechanics? Do the building throughput modifiers still only apply to businesses in the country that established the company, or do they also apply to buildings in other countries owned by the establishing country/owned by pops in the establishing country? What about prosperity bonuses? I imagine most of those would only be relevant to the establishing country, but I'm wondering specifically about the "state construction efficiency" bonuses from things like basic steel/Tata/French Industrialists. Is that applied on a state-by-state basis, or is applied to the country tag's construction queue? So, for instance, if the EIC had established a prosperous Tata and were then to build something in one of its subjects, would the efficiency bonus be applied to the construction or not? What about the "max weekly construction progress" bonus from Tata?
 
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How do company bonuses interact with foreign investment mechanics? Do the building throughput modifiers still only apply to businesses in the country that established the company, or do they also apply to buildings in other countries owned by the establishing country/owned by pops in the establishing country? What about prosperity bonuses? I imagine most of those would only be relevant to the establishing country, but I'm wondering specifically about the "state construction efficiency" bonuses from things like basic steel/Tata/French Industrialists. Is that applied on a state-by-state basis, or is applied to the country tag's construction queue? So, for instance, if the EIC had established a prosperous Tata and were then to build something in one of its subjects, would the efficiency bonus be applied to the construction or not? What about the "max weekly construction progress" bonus from Tata?
As I understand the part about companies they will not change with 1.7, only at a unspecified time in the future. So the boni from the company will still apply to all domestic buildings and only domestic buildings, no matter who owns them.
 
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