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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #118 - Power Blocs Round Two

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Hello and happy Thursday!
It’s Lino, back from the depths of development, to talk about more details on Power Blocs, one of the central new systems coming to you with Sphere of Influence on June 24.
If you don’t know anything about Power Blocs yet, I recommend you to give my first Dev Diary on them a good look because we will be referencing a lot of the terminology today.

Small disclaimer for today’s Dev Diary:
You will see a lot of WIP values, for modifiers and bonuses, for special powers and so on. Take them all with a grain of salt please, as we’re in the process of touching a number of these right now. If you have feedback on them, we’re happy to read it though! We have plans to adjust some values before release.

Identities​

On release, there will be five different Central Identity Pillars to choose from for your Power Bloc. One of which is available to everybody, even if you did not purchase the DLC.

The Identities differentiate themselves from another by a couple of things:
  • All five Identities have a unique power that the leader has access to which is central to how the Identity plays out
  • They have one or more unique effects for the leader or members
  • The Primary Principle Groups which each Bloc needs at least one Principle from are different
  • Some Principle Groups are unlocked only by a specific Identity
  • How a Power Bloc’s Cohesion value is calculated depends on its Identity


Even if you do not own Sphere of Influence, you can play as the countries that have a historic Power Bloc at game start, even if they are not a Trade League (Great Britain, Russia, Ottoman Empire, Austria). You can keep the Principles their Power Blocs start with, that you would not usually have access to, but you will not be able to expand on them or replace them with other principles you could not usually pick.

The five Identities are:
  • Trade League (free with 1.7)
  • Sovereign Empire
  • Military Treaty
  • Ideological Union
  • Religious Convocation

So let’s look at some Identity details, shall we?

Trade League​

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The first big thing we can see for the Trade League Identity is their unique attribute which automatically makes every Power Bloc member part of a Customs Union under the Power Bloc Leader.
This lets you recreate the Customs Union pact functionality which will be removed with the 1.7 update.
Don’t worry, for all other Identities there will be an alternative path which we’ll get to.

Next up, we can see the Bloc Leader only effect for Trade Leagues. In this case, 4 Trade Routes will be free of bureaucracy cost for the leader.

Also the Internal Trade Principle Group is unlocked by this Identity and is in fact one of Trade League’s Primary Principle Groups. One of these Primary Groups is required to be picked from when you first create your own Power Bloc.
Speaking of that Principle Group, here is a closer look at Internal Trade.
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As you can see, the first tier comes with a heavy hitter in the form of a bonus to Market Access Price Impact (also lovingly called MAPI) for all Bloc members.
Growing convoy contributions to the Power Bloc Leader can be seen, alongside tariff increases and other infrastructure improvements due to the harmonization of regulations within the Bloc.

The other Primary Principle Group for Trade Leagues is the External Trade Group:
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Note that in some cases (a customs union in the Bloc) the bureaucracy cost is not actually going to provide any benefit. But since you can use it also outside the Trade League, it will provide a benefit for you there.
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Due to unified trade policies, various improvements to Trade Routes can be found in this group. But we also see a new thing in the list, which is the unlocking of a new Production Method (PM) for Trade Centers.
When selected, that PM will replace the base PM since it is an upgraded version of it and provides you with a bonus to Influence!
Last but not least, we can see that on tier 3, members will gain the power to establish trade routes without requiring interest in the region. That should make it easier, even for small member countries, to engage in trade across the globe.

The last thing that is specific for Trade Leagues is how their Cohesion value is calculated. For this we look at the leader’s GDP share of the total Bloc GDP. The higher the leader’s share, the better for Cohesion. Then we also apply a penalty for each shortage that is happening in your market. To compensate for this, we are adding a bonus for each top producer of a good (rank #1 to #3).

Sovereign Empire​

DD118_08.png

Onwards to the Sovereign Empire Identity. At game start, multiple Power Blocs will have this at their core. Namely the British, Russian and Ottoman Empire.
It allows the leader to subjugate other Power Bloc members and make them a vassal of their own!
Additionally, choosing this Identity reduces the weekly Liberty Desire progress of all subjects that the Power Bloc leader has. Note: The current effect’s description is wrong, it will be updated for release to indicate this applies to their subjects, not themself.

Next up we also have two Primary Principle Groups for the Sovereign Empire. Let’s start with a closer look at Vassalization:

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We can see that it does what the name promises - various improvements to having subjects and managing them with the third tier even allowing you to enact decrees in your subjects which you use to further bolster them.

Next is a group that is exclusive to Sovereign Empire Power Blocs, Exploitation of Members:

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Here we see that this group comes with some penalties for the regular members, in favor of only providing the leader with benefits.
In turn, since members will not enjoy that of course, the Power Bloc’s Cohesion takes a hit. So you will need to evaluate if the benefits outweigh the costs for you or if you are able to find other ways to cut down on Cohesion penalties.

Speaking of Cohesion, for Sovereign Empires you will have to manage your subjects and strengthen your Prestige. The highest Liberty Desire among the leader’s subjects imposes a penalty of equal value. So if the British East India Company has the highest Liberty Desire among the British subjects with a value of 40, the Cohesion penalty will also be 40 for example.
On the other hand leaders get a bonus to Cohesion based on their share of total Prestige in the Power Bloc.
DD118_15.png

The third Identity we’re looking at today is the Military Treaty (yes, it received a catchier name).

Military Treaty​

DD118_16.png

Military Goods Cost is a placeholder effect which will be replaced before release

First thing we see is “Allows free War Goal”. But what does that mean? It means that the Leader of a Military Treaty Power Bloc may add a single secondary War Goal to any Diplomatic Play of members that the Leader is also involved in, even if they joined of their own volition. This war goal can “cost” up to 30 maneuvers, but it will not actually subtract any when selected.

There is also a placeholder modifier in this screenshot (which will be replaced before release!), that reduces the military goods cost for all Bloc members. In its place another effect is going to be added, with the focus remaining on the military side of things of course.
In addition there are a few more for increased Prestige from Power Projection for both, leader and member.

As for the other identities, we have two Primary Principle Groups, one of which is exclusive to Military Treaty Blocs.

The first group is Defensive Cooperation:

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Like most other Principle Groups, Defensive Cooperation does what you would expect. Through mutual commitment, Power Blocs with this Principle are not able to wage war among each other. On the higher tiers, swaying countries gets easier if you’re the target of a play and on tier 3, all members are being forced to join all Diplomatic Plays if a member is being targeted.

But what would imperialism be without waging some war yourself? That’s what the other, exclusive to the Military Treaty group is for:
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Ranging from lower infamy generation to forcing every member to join all Diplomatic Plays of any other member, this group is for you if you’re planning to conquer the world (or at least parts of it). Beware of the Cohesion penalty on the third tier due to members not wanting to go to war constantly.
Cohesion in Military Treaty Blocs is dependent on the leader’s share of the Bloc’s Power Projection, similar to how Prestige works for Sovereign Empires in that regard.
Reductions to Cohesion are based on the highest infamy value in the Bloc and the country with the worst relations with the leader.

Next up, we’re taking a peek at Ideological Unions:

Ideological Union​

DD118_23.png
Here we see that Ideological Union leaders can Force Regime Changes in member countries. There are a few conditions like how different their laws need to be compared to the leader’s, how much Cohesion the Power Bloc has and some minor others.
When you do it, what happens is again what you would expect: You enforce a regime change on the target country, changing their laws, without having to go to war.

Good thing the Ideological Union Power Blocs have an easier access to Regime Changes. Because one of the negative Cohesion factors for these Blocs is the country with the biggest difference in Governance Principles and Distribution of Power law groups compared to the leader.
A positive factor is found in the form of the leader’s Legitimacy.

Creative Legislature and Ideological Truth are the two Primary Principle Groups for Ideological Union Power Blocs, with the latter being exclusive to them.
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For Creative Legislature we see various bonuses to the enactment of laws. It allows you to have more setbacks on the third tier, essentially giving you another roll at it, in addition to the reduced stall chance, making the process proceed faster. Also, it reduces Movement spawn chances that would undo the work you are trying to do with the enactment of your desired law.
Now let’s take a look at the Principle Group exclusive to Ideological Union Blocs.
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Here we can see that this group focuses on Interest Groups (IG) and your government. It not only makes unwanted Agitators’ lifes harder, lets you bolster your desired IGs and suppress your enemies at the cost of less authority, but even increases your Minimum Legitimacy by 25 on the third tier.

The fifth and last Central Identity Pillar is great for everybody who always wanted to play as a religious great power, uniting the world.

Religious Convocation​

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Religious homogeneity is what this Power Bloc Identity strives for. It allows leaders to impose their state religion on other members. It’s an unique Diplomatic Action which will set a member's State Religions to the leader’s. Similarly to other Power Bloc Leader actions, it requires a certain Cohesion and Prestige value and also cannot be used immediately on a new member.

The Religious Convocation Identity also boosts conversion rates in all members, which goes nicely with your power to convert Power Bloc members. For release, we’re supplementing this effect with another one, likely along the lines of reducing radicalism.

Its Primary Principle Groups both deal with the involvement of church in different aspects of life.
The first of the two is also exclusive to the religious Identity - it’s Divine Economics.

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We see here that we get various effects with relation to faith and economy. Higher subject payments if they’re following a different religion, but on the flip side higher trade route competitiveness if they are following the same religion for example.
The PMs that you can unlock on tier 2 allow you to exchange some workforce in the new Manor House and Financial District buildings with Clergymen. You don’t have to make use of it of course, but you get the option to.

The other Principle Group is Sacred Civics:
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This group features three unique effects. It improves upon Liberty Desire and general acceptance for diplomatic proposals if the country shares the same state religion.
On tier 3, you can see it also allows the leader to impose their own church and state laws onto Power Bloc members.

Cohesion for Religious Convocations has a few factors as well. First, it looks at the leader’s Devout IG clout to determine a bonus to Cohesion. Secondly, we add or subtract Cohesion based on the lowest share of population in a Bloc member that follows the same religion as the leader’s state religion.
So if you have a member that has 0% of their Population following the same religion as yourself as leader, you will get a penalty, but if you are actually able to have the lowest member value be 50%, you will get a bonus instead.

That was a detailed look at all the Identities. But wait, there’s more!

Principles​

Apart from the Primary Principle Groups, there are a number of other groups of different flavors that you can make use of to assemble your dream Power Bloc. In total, including the 5 Identity exclusive groups, there are 20 Principle Groups with three Principles each for you to choose from.
Here are some examples:
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This Principle Group is the alternative route to get to a Customs Union without having to pick the Trade League Central Identity Pillar.
It comes with a few other bonuses on the lower tiers, in particular the +5% MAPI bonus you have seen in the Trade Union exclusive group.

Another example I’d like to show because of its differently themed effects is Police Coordination.
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This group provides multiple positive effects for the Police Institution in particular and upgrades its effects. The +50 Authority and reduction in Political Movement Radicalism is applied to each level of the institution. So the deeper you go into this, the more you will profit from it too.

The last group we want to show you today is dealing with Foreign Investment.
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We can see three interesting effects in this group. On the first tier, you will get a higher amount of Leverage from Economic Dependence which, if you recall, is based a lot on how many investments you have in another country which makes them more dependent on you.
The second tier provides you with a reduction for Nationalization cost, which you can make use of to decrease your own dependence on other countries for example.
On the last tier, every member of the Bloc gets automatic Investment Rights in other Members of lower rank. This should allow you and other powerful countries to spread your influence inside your Bloc more easily, which in turn makes it more likely for the lower rank countries to stay inside your Bloc.

Another thing that has changed slightly since the original Power Blocs Dev Diary is the slots that are available to your Power Bloc.
If you own Sphere of Influence, by default each Power Bloc you’re leading has two slots that you can fill with Principles.
Even if you don’t own the DLC, you will still have one slot available for customization, where you can choose one of the two Primary Principle Group paths to take.
You can unlock the third and fourth slot by overtaking the other Power Blocs in the rankings for which we look at the total prestige of all members.
For the third slot you will need to be among the top 5 Power Blocs and have at least 5 members, the fourth one will be unlocked if you are among the top 3 and have at least 10 members in your Bloc.
Due to this change, we have removed the maximum number of Principle Mandates which you can spend. So in theory you can now get to 4 fully leveled tier 3 Principles, it is just going to be harder for you to do so.

Next, I’d like to provide you with a seemingly small, but significant update to how we deal with Leverage.

Leverage 2.0​

Since the last Dev Diary on Power Blocs, we have made some changes to how Leverage works and also added a few more sources of Leverage. If you recall, Leverage is what you need to build up in other countries to make them join your Bloc.
Apart from the sources mentioned last time, we have now added factors for adjacency, meaning if you have a direct adjacency or a treaty port for example, you will get more Leverage in the target country. High infamy values on the other hand will reduce the gain of Leverage, so you will have to keep it in check if you want to make good use of the resources you’re investing into building up Leverage.
Various other diplomatic pacts now will also provide or reduce the Leverage you can build up in other countries.

The main change we’ve done though is how Leverage is calculated. Before it was basically a never-ending race of building up infinite amounts of Leverage. Now we have changed it so that there is instead a shared pool of 1000 Leverage which all involved parties (including the target country) need to fight over. This value of 1000 never changes, never shrinks or grows.

The best way to understand this is by looking at a screenshot of the WIP tooltips that our UX designer Aron has made:

DD118_46.png

Here we see (from the British perspective), how Leverage over Greece is currently split up and what distribution it is trending towards.
In the upper bar, we see the current Leverage situation and we can see that Greece is currently able to stand up for itself against the Blocs trying to influence it. Its value of 584 is 490 higher than the British value which therefore is currently at 94, resulting in 9.4% Leverage Share for Great Britain. The Greek value is also directly translatable into their Leverage Share of 58.4%. The target country’s Share is called Unclaimed Leverage since no Power Bloc is taking that for themselves. If no Power Bloc was active in gaining Leverage in Greece (this should barely ever be the case), their Leverage Share/Unclaimed Leverage would be 100%.

What is actually happening in that situation though is that all 4 involved Power Blocs currently have a higher Leverage Factor (which is kind of like a Leverage “income”) than Greece has resistance. They might have a bunch of diplomatic agreements with Greece or trade or have sided in Diplomatic Plays with them for example. So over time, the Greek share of the pie will decrease, while all Power Blocs in this case will make gains and expand their influence over Greece, eventually (and if nothing about this situation changes) resulting in the situation depicted in the bar on the bottom of the tooltip.
The Russian Empire will have roughly 40% of the Leverage Share then and will likely be able to invite Greece to their Bloc with a good chance of success.
You can hover over each bit of the bars of course to get more detailed information on how the depicted share is calculated.

This system change makes Leverage something worth fighting over even if you are late to the party because nobody will be able to accumulate mountains of Leverage before you try yourself to get active in the country.
It also makes it possible to not only build up more Leverage, but reduce another Bloc’s Leverage Share, by having more positive Leverage Factors going for you than they do.

Another thing that we’d like to bring to your attention is a few examples for how Leverage is tied into our narrative content, in particular the Great Game content that was presented to you in the previous Dev Diaries for the Great Game and the Graveyard of Empires.
For example, in the Afghan unification, if you appeal to Great Britain or Russia, this will create Leverage on your country for their respective Power Blocs.

Similarly, the Eastern Frontier Journal Entry buttons and also an accepted Circassia recognition will create some Leverage for the according Power Blocs in the target country.

That’s it for today. We hope you liked this expanded outlook on Power Blocs. Next week, Alex is going to talk about some general changes that we’re making with the 1.7 update. Get ready for a cute mapmode and have a lovely rest of this happy Thursday!
 
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Maybe I am reading this wrong, but I don't like the clear separation between ideological and economic unions that is made here. It seems to me that a liberal customs union would care to some degree about ideological cohesion, as would a military alliance involving an absolutist monarchy. Does this mean a radical liberal republic could be in a bloc with an absolute monarchy without friction, or a council republic be in a customs union with liberal nations without friction?

Also does this mean it would be impossible for an Ideological Bloc to also have a customs union between its members, or have I misunderstood?

Apologies for any misunderstanding, I often find it hard to conceptualise mechanics before I can play them.
Historically speaking, French liberal elites cared very little about whether they did trade with an absolute monarchy, although British liberal elites to some extent did. There is no rule historically speaking that friction would develop as a result of "ideological difference", it depends more on what the people value over what which is determined institutionally and culturally.
 
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Not really sure what to think about it. Looks like the next list of buffs the player can just select, because he wants/like it, just like estates in EU4 or the current company system. I think new mechanics should be tied to pops. Like why can the player just select a military block ? Shouldnt this be only possible, if there are enough officers/soldiers/aristocrats supporting this idea ? Economic blocs should need support of capitalists and shopkeepers.

Its not very immersive to just have a list of buffs and select whatever the player wants, like most system are in EU4 and HoI4 (although its very fine in these games), but I hoped Victoria 3 is going in a different direction. I would although agree, that we need more tools to affect the society (currently its basically only buildings and laws) and then different things can or can not happen because our society looks the way it is.
 
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I know the screenshots are WIP, but why are their authority penalties for that Exploitation of Members Principle? How would "exploiting" my members cause them to have weaker governments? I'm "exploting" them and in the meantime those puppet governments have a harder time enacting decrees and raising consumption taxes? Why would I want that?

Also, the name 'Exploitation of Members' feels a bit too much on the nose, I feel a more subtle name would be more fitting.
 
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Looking at the Ideological Union bonuses, it jumps to me that there is no "gain" for having more members on the main principles. The other bloc types don't need it as they have inherent advantages for getting bigger, but the Ideology Club doesn't really do much toghether other than thinking alike.

Maybe the final +25 legitimacy could scale with members? That way there is an active encouragement to spread your ideology.
 
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If power blocs are effectively a replacement for custom unions (although they don't necessarily always provide a custom union), how is that going to affect migration? Will migration happen within blocs, or only if they have a custom union, or is migration getting overhauled to no longer be restricted to custom unions at all?
 
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I wanted to echo this post because I think you provided a lot of good insights. While I think that power blocs is a neat concept that maps decently onto the geopolitical maneuvering of the period, I wholeheartedly agree that the Sovereign empire bloc feels entirely out of place. Every other bloc is about forming a multi-lateral alliance with other states over some form of shared vision or goal; the sovereign empire is entirely focused on internal and subject management. I think that forming a separate system for subject/empire management would be far more realistic and engaging than having the UK/Ottomans/Russians completely unable to join any multilateral pacts because they've got a big empire.

My other concern with power blocs is that they're currently the only real multilateral pact system and, as mentioned by arosenberger14, don't adequately describe real multilateral or interstate alliances in the Victorian age. Modelling the complexities of bilateral treaties of the period is necessary to represent, for example, the Triple Entente, which was never a formal alliance or mutual defense treaty but a series of bilateral agreements.

The power bloc system is interesting, but are there plans to develop more complex and significant bilateral pacts or multilateral systems? Or even conventions to represent the temporary multinational alliances of the period, such as during the Boxer Rebellion?
alliances??
 
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I'm afraid you cannot as fun as it sounds.
You need to have either State Religion or Freedom of Conscience to form a Religious Convocation Power Bloc.
I kind get it, but at the same point, wouldn't it be kinda cool if I could fore my cult of Positivism? Maybe dynamically change the the Name from "Religious Convocation" to "Cult of Reason". Probably not historically accurate in the slightest, but fun.

We already are able to change our subjects to atheism, so why not our bloc members?
 
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I kind get it, but at the same point, wouldn't it be kinda cool if I could fore my cult of Positivism? Maybe dynamically change the the Name from "Religious Convocation" to "Cult of Reason". Probably not historically accurate in the slightest, but fun.

We already are able to change our subjects to atheism, so why not our bloc members?
It's a good idea for a mod :)
 
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Short of something like a total collapse of the British Empire and them fleeing overseas, I'm not sure why this would be mentioned as a chance.
Short of a total collapse, I don't know how the UK would end up with less prestige than any of their subjects, but for something like the Zollverein, Bavaria overtaking Prussia should be a possibility.
Every other bloc is about forming a multi-lateral alliance with other states over some form of shared vision or goal; the sovereign empire is entirely focused on internal and subject management.
I think you have a very generous perception of those other goals. I'm not reducing tariffs to benefit you, I'm reducing tariffs so I can flood your market with my finished goods while using you to extract resources. I'm not forming an ideological bloc of people to work towards a shared vision, I'm forming the Comintern and keeping a boot on your neck and forcing you to adopt my laws at gun point. Same with religion.

The only time it's even close to equals would be the Defensive or Offensive military pacts, and it's still less about equals than it is the US forcing the other GPs out of our playground because these are our toys, not yours.
 
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Leverage 2.0​

Since the last Dev Diary on Power Blocs, we have made some changes to how Leverage works and also added a few more sources of Leverage. If you recall, Leverage is what you need to build up in other countries to make them join your Bloc.
Apart from the sources mentioned last time, we have now added factors for adjacency, meaning if you have a direct adjacency or a treaty port for example, you will get more Leverage in the target country. High infamy values on the other hand will reduce the gain of Leverage, so you will have to keep it in check if you want to make good use of the resources you’re investing into building up Leverage.
Various other diplomatic pacts now will also provide or reduce the Leverage you can build up in other countries.

The main change we’ve done though is how Leverage is calculated. Before it was basically a never-ending race of building up infinite amounts of Leverage. Now we have changed it so that there is instead a shared pool of 1000 Leverage which all involved parties (including the target country) need to fight over. This value of 1000 never changes, never shrinks or grows.

The best way to understand this is by looking at a screenshot of the WIP tooltips that our UX designer Aron has made:


Here we see (from the British perspective), how Leverage over Greece is currently split up and what distribution it is trending towards.
In the upper bar, we see the current Leverage situation and we can see that Greece is currently able to stand up for itself against the Blocs trying to influence it. Its value of 584 is 490 higher than the British value which therefore is currently at 94, resulting in 9.4% Leverage Share for Great Britain. The Greek value is also directly translatable into their Leverage Share of 58.4%. The target country’s Share is called Unclaimed Leverage since no Power Bloc is taking that for themselves. If no Power Bloc was active in gaining Leverage in Greece (this should barely ever be the case), their Leverage Share/Unclaimed Leverage would be 100%.

What is actually happening in that situation though is that all 4 involved Power Blocs currently have a higher Leverage Factor (which is kind of like a Leverage “income”) than Greece has resistance. They might have a bunch of diplomatic agreements with Greece or trade or have sided in Diplomatic Plays with them for example. So over time, the Greek share of the pie will decrease, while all Power Blocs in this case will make gains and expand their influence over Greece, eventually (and if nothing about this situation changes) resulting in the situation depicted in the bar on the bottom of the tooltip.
The Russian Empire will have roughly 40% of the Leverage Share then and will likely be able to invite Greece to their Bloc with a good chance of success.
You can hover over each bit of the bars of course to get more detailed information on how the depicted share is calculated.

This system change makes Leverage something worth fighting over even if you are late to the party because nobody will be able to accumulate mountains of Leverage before you try yourself to get active in the country.
It also makes it possible to not only build up more Leverage, but reduce another Bloc’s Leverage Share, by having more positive Leverage Factors going for you than they do.

Another thing that we’d like to bring to your attention is a few examples for how Leverage is tied into our narrative content, in particular the Great Game content that was presented to you in the previous Dev Diaries for the Great Game and the Graveyard of Empires.
For example, in the Afghan unification, if you appeal to Great Britain or Russia, this will create Leverage on your country for their respective Power Blocs.

Similarly, the Eastern Frontier Journal Entry buttons and also an accepted Circassia recognition will create some Leverage for the according Power Blocs in the target country.

That’s it for today. We hope you liked this expanded outlook on Power Blocs. Next week, Alex is going to talk about some general changes that we’re making with the 1.7 update. Get ready for a cute mapmode and have a lovely rest of this happy Thursday!
I am really excited for the addition of leverage to the game. I've always thought one of the good mechanics of HOI3 was the diplomatic affiliation triangle and felt it brought a lot of depth to the diplomatic aspect of the game, and I've been wanting another game to use something like it but dynamic. With leverage it looks like Victoria 3 will so far be the closest to what I envisioned, and it looks like a great addition to Victoria 3's diplomatic mechanics. I can also see it being a good addition to Paradox's general toolbox for ideas to repurpose for use in future games.
 
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I think you have a very generous perception of those other goals. I'm not reducing tariffs to benefit you, I'm reducing tariffs so I can flood your market with my finished goods while using you to extract resources. I'm not forming an ideological bloc of people to work towards a shared vision, I'm forming the Comintern and keeping a boot on your neck and forcing you to adopt my laws at gun point. Same with religion.

The only time it's even close to equals would be the Defensive or Offensive military pacts, and it's still less about equals than it is the US forcing the other GPs out of our playground because these are our toys, not yours.
My point was that if the concept is built around playing 'hostile' with non-sovereign empire goals then I don't really know why some of the concepts are locked to certain pillars. Why can a sovereign empire like Russia not put points into also spreading the Orthodox religion? If we are talking about them all being built around the leading GP, then as you say, why can't they go 'I want to flood their market with cheap goods *and* stamp on them if they step out of line ideologically.' They did explain that you can put points into other benefits, but the pillars system is too restrictive if the concept is really just about managing your empire.
 
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Looks like cool features, and hope it will be a good mechanic.

Reminds me to Victoria 2 sphere system a little bit (which came with the base game btw) where sphere influence generated was influenced by factors such as how much investement you have in your country, the relations (influenced by infamy or u owning cores) and by diplomatic actions of other GPs, such as making the country ban your embassy, or discredit you in the eyes of the target country etc.... hope something similaw will be here too, though this system looks more detailed ON PAPER.

And that is my concern. The vicky 2 system was simple, but efficient, and a good mechanic to interact with. this system looks loaded, but a lot will depend on the execution, and how well it will fit with the other mechanics and dynamics of the game.

On one side this all looks good, on the other side i have a fear, that this may be some abstract magic maxing kind of thing, where you get all kinds of game changing bonuses, but based on what? Like for exemple the market access bonus on lvl 1, how does that make sense? 2 countries that came together, because they are together their market access is more efficient? The second bonus makes mmore sense, you het that 5% market access bonus, but also tariffs for external trade, this simulates better that joint markets are more integrated, but not actually just magically objectively more efficient. And this is only one exemple, and they said they will change things around, but this is just to say that bonuses shouldn't be like magic, and it would be less fun if it would be all just about the collection of all kinds of bonuses that don't make sense but not make at least some sense, or based on something.

And a last thing: This mechanic shouldn't exist only for it's own sake, or be something that if you don't do you just end up losing the game. What I mean is, this should be something you actually want to do because it is worth it, and yes, it looks to be worth it for obvious bonuses, but it shouldn't be just bonuses for the sake of bonuses.

Why did the concert of europe exist, why great powers behaved like this in the first place? To avoid bloodshed! To gain as much as they can with giving the least effort (money, soldoiers, reputation...) as possible. And it comes down, again, at war. Soft power is toavoid using hard power aka war. But for that war needs to actually be costly, and I don't mean just simply you losing on money because the goods cost a lot. But mainly the industrial and pop parrt. There is no attrition based on terrain, so u loose same amount to attrition everywhere, wars at all points of the game kinda feel like you can afford them, diplomatically, economically and especially pop wise. Yes, you shouldn't be crppled, but usually in this game the amount of the military industry you need to have is pretty small, considering the working population that needs to run it. You can just assemble a huge army, and owerpower anyone at any time, throw pops into the grinder, and somehow they don't really feel like indispensable. Plus, since the ai diplomacy is little to non existant, you can do whatever you want, no way to know what's the AI's next move will be, your ally or a friendly nation today, can unally you and join against you tomorrow, for seemingly no reason. And this doesen't mean, that war should be more punishing, no it should be more fun aswell, it should be fun to use both soft and hard power.

Adding logistics, real supply system, that you can influence, and thus influence your attrition levels, and terrain that impact all of that, would immediately make things more fun. basically adding geography to a GEO, political simulator, because right now it's only present in province modifiers, and poorly simulated travel times (an army takes couple of days to arrive from poland to moscow, that should be taking weeks or months.)

Other things like stationing your soldiers in friendly countries for exemple.... military access.... Basic things we still don't have in the game.

Whatever, this is already long. All in all looks like a cool update, just execute it well pls.
 
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I think people are getting hung up on the identity and viewing it too much as the "only" identity of your power bloc, and not what it is which is as the "primary" identity of the bloc. So you can still have, say, an Ideological Union that also has market unification principles, or a Trade League with defensive cooperation principles, or a Sovereign Empire with sacred civics principles. Even among the primary principles, there's only one in each that is exclusive to that type of power bloc. But a power bloc is still going to have a main idea that is the reason behind their coming together and that defines their cohesion. That's more what the identity is. It's just the main purpose for the bloc but it isn't necessarily the only thing the bloc exists for or can do for its members.
 
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Was hoping the offensive cooperation would allow allies to ask/be offered more war goals. Right now only one country can take more than one war goal and every other country can only be swayed with one wargoal each in a play and I feel some sort of pact like a Power Bloc would be a good place to allow more wargoals from more countries.
 
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100% agree with trying to make the effects the least "gamey" things possible. Avoiding flat bonuses in favour of tying it to diplomatic actions and the like. So less good production and MAPI and more of the rest.

Unstructured spitballing of random bonuses/feedback:
- for foreign investment- consider giving the head of the block the ability to negotiate investment rights for the entire block for more bargaining strength?
- for sovereign empire: forbid subjects from trading with anyone but you? (Like spanish colonies!)
-internal trade is almost identical to market unification, maybe distinguish them more.
-for external trade: consider decreasing the diplo cost of trade agreements? The competetiveness part is really good.
-For ideological union excessive legislature - Idunno if I like having a general "you now good at law changes", shouldn't it be more like "you good at maintaining / reforming towards the ideology of the rest of the block"?
-for Id. Uni: consider adding pro-country lobby funding effectiveness for one of the principles. Spreading the revolution and all.
-for id uni id. Truth- consider boosting general generation ideology corresponding to ideology of head of state.
-for rel union- make the religious interest groups in other countries super likely to join / create pro-country lobbies for the head of the block if they're the same religion since you essentially become the head/representative of the religion.
-for military treaty- allowing you to station unmobilized troops / ships in all block members HQs pre war for offensive coordination. Auto mil access.
-I like the idea of not having the military call to arms be obligatory, but heavily pushed.
-for defensive union, instead of obligatory join war maybe obligatory "guarantee independence"? Or call to arms automatically sent?
-for offensive coordination, send call to arms to all instead of forced join with penalties for leaving? Or make some way for uninterested parties to not join.
- for mil union: Im not a fan of the infamy reduction bonus or goods produced thing. Consider doing something like bonuses to war exhaustion or war support when in a war with a fellow block member.

Try to make the modifiers non-gamey when possible! Messing with interest group approval or ai diplo feels less arbitrary.
 
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Not really sure what to think about it. Looks like the next list of buffs the player can just select, because he wants/like it, just like estates in EU4 or the current company system. I think new mechanics should be tied to pops. Like why can the player just select a military block ? Shouldnt this be only possible, if there are enough officers/soldiers/aristocrats supporting this idea ? Economic blocs should need support of capitalists and shopkeepers.

Its not very immersive to just have a list of buffs and select whatever the player wants, like most system are in EU4 and HoI4 (although its very fine in these games), but I hoped Victoria 3 is going in a different direction. I would although agree, that we need more tools to affect the society (currently its basically only buildings and laws) and then different things can or can not happen because our society looks the way it is.
You seem to be ignoring leverage (and cohesion).

It seems to me one of the guiding principles of Vic3 is you, as the player, can setup anything you want - but if the people don't support it then it wont happen. Build whatever industry you want - but if it's not profitable it wont find workers. You can propose a law - but if nobody supports it then it isn't passing.

You can setup whatever bloc you want for the bonuses - but if you don't sell it to your neighbours then nobody is joining.

You setup a Trade League without any traders in your realm and you get no leverage to get other countries to join, or if they do then you risk them claiming control of the Bloc from you.
You setup a Sovereign Empire without any prestige and with rebellious subjects then nobody is joining and it's falling apart fast.
 
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why can't they go 'I want to flood their market with cheap goods *and* stamp on them if they step out of line ideologically.'
You can, we haven't seen all the other sub-pillars, the top line heading just lists the primary goal with Customs Unions getting a special call out as something that will be available for all of them. Some are softer and more PR friendly, others are explicit empires. None of them are something you want to be on the receiving end of.
 
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For the placeholder on the military treaty power block:

Consider a reduction in cost to have defensive pacts and alliances with bloc members and maybe a free extra alliance with a bloc member, allowing you to have two alliances before unlocking the tech that allows you to have more than one.
 
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