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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #126 - Update 1.8 Overview

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Happy Thursday and welcome back to another Victoria 3 development diary. This week we’re going to take a bird’s eye view of the headline features of update 1.8, which is of course the next free update for the game, planned to be released sometime later this year. However, before we start on the dev diary proper I should tell you about a slight change of plans in our release schedule. Back in Dev Diary #124 I told you that update 1.8 would be a smaller update, focused almost entirely on bug fixing and general polish.

This was indeed the plan, with update 1.9 intended as a larger update following relatively closely on the heels of 1.8, but when we sat down to work out the details we realized that our intended timeline simply didn’t work out, as we would either have to work on the two updates in too close proximity (creating major challenges for 1.8 post-release support among other things), or delay update 1.9 all the way to next year, which we didn’t want to do. So we decided to combine the two updates, with the result that 1.8 is now going to be a single update with the combined scope of both 1.8 and 1.9, meaning it will contain not just bug fixes and polish but also some juicy new free features.

But enough about update planning, let’s get into those headline features I just mentioned! As I said, this is just an overview dev diary, so we’re not going to go into any great detail today, but we have plenty more dev diaries planned in the upcoming weeks where we will fill in the blanks. One final thing before I start: All of the features mentioned are still in early stages of development, so any screenshots, numbers and art shown are going to be very, very, very (very) work in progress.


Ideological Forces (Political Movement Rework)

A frequent complaint about Victoria 3’s political system is the highly random nature of leader and character ideologies. The way in which you build up support for certain laws among your Interest Groups can be frustratingly opaque and reliant on using certain pieces of content (Corn Laws, anyone?) in a way that is neither immersive nor feels particularly rewarding.

In update 1.8, we are taking aim at this problem, alongside a number of other issues with a feature that we have dubbed ‘Ideological Forces’, but which can be more accurately called ‘Political Movement Rework’. The plan is to transform Political Movements from spontaneous and temporary demands for a single legal reform into longer-term ideological movements with a broader political agenda. For example, instead of a movement popping up to abolish slavery, you will have an actual Abolitionist movement with a long-term legal agenda, which will attract supporters from your Pops and influence the politics of the Interest Groups that those Pops are backing. Political Movements will also include religious and cultural minority (and majority!) movements, with some corresponding changes to civil war and secession mechanics.

One of the major aims of the Political Movement Rework is to make the mechanics around how we assign ideologies to Interest Group leaders much more transparent to the player
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Discrimination Rework

Another issue straight off the future update plans that we’re tackling in 1.8 is the way pop discrimination works. Ever since release, we’ve said multiple times that the overly simplistic nature of discrimination is something we want to improve on in the future, and now that future is finally here! This feature is still in the ‘figuring it out’ stage, so I’ll eschew the details, but our principal goals with are as follows:
  • To introduce multiple ‘levels’ to discrimination instead of it just being a binary state
  • To have the level of discrimination faced by a Pop be determined by factors other than just what the law says
  • To turn assimilation into a properly useful feature that isn’t only available to fully accepted pops

UX mockup of what discrimination/acceptance of a particular culture might look like in 1.8. Note that everything here is just placeholder/example data and not necessarily planned features (sadly there will be no ‘let them eat fish’ law).
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Food Availability, Famines and Harvest Incidents

In update 1.8, we’re also planning to expand on the gameplay around agriculture and food availability, which of course was an issue of great importance to governments at the time. After all, the 19th century saw events such as the Irish Potato Famine, the repeated famines in British-controlled India and the world-wide famines in the wake of the Krakatoa explosion.

To do this, we are going to introduce the concept of food availability for Pops, which is a factor that is separate from, but intrinsically linked to a Pop’s standard of living. Currently, we’re thinking that food availability for a Pop will be determined by how much of their buy package goes towards feeding themselves, how expensive the food goods they’re purchasing is, and whether there are any shortages among those goods. Low food availability will increase pop mortality and radicalism and may trigger a state-wide famine if it’s widespread enough.

Food production at the time was highly dependent on the weather and climate, and many peasant families were only one or two bad harvests away from the brink of ruin. To simulate this unpredictability, we’re also adding something called ‘Harvest Incidents’, which can increase or decrease agricultural output in different regions over a longer timeframe.

Early development mapmode showing harvest incidents. Korea is experiencing a period of bountiful harvests, while the situation is less rosy in the East African interior (ignore the colored sea zones, as that is just a bug from the feature being WIP).
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These are the ‘big ones’ for update 1.8, but of course it is by no means all we’re planning to do in this update. A few honorable mentions of other changes and improvements you can expect in 1.8, all of which we’ll explain in detail over in the upcoming weeks:
  • Companies owning and investing in buildings
  • Bulk Nationalization tool
  • Multi-select and right-click orders for formations
  • Adding wargoals on behalf of subjects

Along with, of course, many bug fixes, balance changes and other miscellaneous improvements.

That’s all for today! More details on all of these features will of course follow, starting with Bulk Nationalization and Companies Owning Buildings, which Lino will tell you all about next week. See you then!
 
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Does this mean cultures will be discriminated against on an individual level? Or is it still a binary distinction between "discriminated" and "non-discriminated"?
 
In update 1.8, we are taking aim at this problem, alongside a number of other issues with a feature that we have dubbed ‘Ideological Forces’, but which can be more accurately called ‘Political Movement Rework’. The plan is to transform Political Movements from spontaneous and temporary demands for a single legal reform into longer-term ideological movements with a broader political agenda. For example, instead of a movement popping up to abolish slavery, you will have an actual Abolitionist movement with a long-term legal agenda, which will attract supporters from your Pops and influence the politics of the Interest Groups that those Pops are backing. Political Movements will also include religious and cultural minority (and majority!) movements, with some corresponding changes to civil war and secession mechanics.
Can we still lock ideology for an interest group?
I mean, let a group always have vanguardist/communist/anarchist/fascist/ethno-nationalist leader?
 
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The new acceptance system will be somehow similar to CK3?
 
Exciting. Will there be greater nuance in who gets discriminated, not just how much people are discriminated? I.e. Could the English still discriminate against Irish or French despite accepting European Heritage?
 
Very excited for this, these are all things I've wanted for Vicky III for a long time now. I've long thought that the binary way political movements worked was very flawed. You could never really do gradual reformism that keeps the rabble content while preventing capital from getting angry without actually being able to pass a compromise bill between what proponents and opponents of a given ideology want. I speculated lobbies might be laying the groundwork for a future revision of political movements, and, well, I guessed right.


WRT food availability and also the trade improvements discussed in the video released yesterday; one issue I see with the trade system is how every nation in an empire gets included in a single market. This means that there are rarely ever shortages of goods that other countries can capitalize on through imports in the mid to late game, as great power economies contain simply too many pops and buildings to ever have meaningful shortages in 90% of circumstances. For instance, as Argentina I can't be an international breadbasket as it was historically and export meat, grains, or other foodstuffs the rest of the world. Britain imported a lot of grains from other countries during this time period for instance, but because in game their market includes all of India (an area that produces so much excess food it prevents any shortages for the rest of the British Market) and later on in the game large swathes of Africa, that never really happens. Ditto for most other major empires.

While going the Project Caesar route and having every individual region have its own markets might be impractical, at least dividing Great power markets at least along broad, continental levels would improve simulation a lot. If the British Isles are experiencing a grain shortage, they can't activate their Star Trek transporters and simply teleport in some grains from India or Africa. They have to physically ship those grains in, and well, if grains from another country would arrive sooner, they'd be imported first. The British player could counteract this and raise tariffs for out of empire grain imports, but of course, if they did that then the end price would be higher for the consumer and thus the standard of living for British pops would go down as they spend more on food than they otherwise would have to.
 
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I hope with the acceptance rework we finally get proper separatist movements that plagued Russia and Austria for example but don't really happen in this patch !

A couple more formables and releasebles wouldn't kill either, going in this vein of nationalism(silesia, alsace, banat maybe rome... )
 
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Wonder how that "leader ideology chance" UI is going to interface with historical characters. Currently if a historical character can spawn they will, overriding the regular ideology weights. It might be fun to have a little "Historical Character Approaching!" UI element or something.
 
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Please keep in mind roleplaying for the new discrimination system. For example: Panslavic Russia would accept Poles, but not Germans, while a resurgent Byzantine empire could accept Armenians AND Assyrians, something that is currently impossible without multiculturalism.

I'd love a 'pick and select accepted cultures' mechanic but I'm game to see what you will come up with.
 
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Hi, grate changes but could you pls tell me do you plan to add forts and when you will introduce planed changes to ships and supply of armies? And what about infrastructure allowing transmission of electricity between states? Thx
 
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These changes to politics and discrimination looks amazing, great work. That discrimination UI looks MUCH more granular than I expected, not that I'm complaining, that's great. Don't really understand how the harvest events are meant to work but regardless I'm very happy to see famines take on their proper relevance for the era, I had felt like it was unfortunately minimized in the existing simulation.

My suggestion for famines is that ratio of non-food producing arable land to food producing arable land should have a large effect on the likelihood of famine, as during this period the prioritization of cash crops and enclosure of self-sustaining peasant land was a huge driver of famine around the world.
 
The new political movement rework is great. it would be nice if the IG's change their core ideology based on the membership composition of the pops. For example, an armed force IG with farmer majority will support homesteading as an ideology. This would at least create some dynamic internal politics.
We need more flexible IGs and more independent pops, that would join different movements, regardles what IG would they join (temperance movement, indpendence etc.), and influence what IGs stance on certain issues will be.
 
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I know that this is asked a lot in the forums with people discussing about it. Is there any plans to include National Stockpiles into the game, even if it is not in 1.8 then in a future update?
 
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And here I was thinking that the colored sea zones meant we'd get a mechanic that indicates when more fish are available in a certain coastal region! Either way PLEASE ADD MORE FISH. I LOVE FISH AND I WANT MY PEOPLE TO EAT THEM!

All of these ideas sound fantastic, just please make sure that it doesn't lead to more exponential pop container proliferation. The game has just recently become playable to the very end reliably for me, and I love that. The last 30 years of the game is the best part when it runs well enough to play. Fortunately, it seems discrimination gradients can be implemented without slowing the game down, since they are culture wide.

Also, I'd like to suggest that the cultural acceptance window be for one culture at a time, that window seems like it would become a bit busy with large states that have dozens of cultures. It honestly seems already like it was made to represent a single one at a time. Discrimination at a glance for every culture should really have its own muti-tabbed window, so the information can be separated and visualized clearly.

As well, please include some details in the next Dev Diary about when you intend to address the performance issues caused by trading and war. One of your programmers suggested on reddit to add a GUI delay (max_update_rate = 30) to the bureaucracy widget to help with trade slowdowns and it really helped me alot (Kaiser_Johan, please tell him thanks from me). He also said that was only a small part of the trade fix and I'm loving how relevant trade can be in the current version, so I'd appreciate an estimate on when we are getting the full trade fix (hopefully in a hotfix before 1.8?).

Also, war remains a big issue. The game slows down dramatically every time there is war, especially a big war between multiple AIs in the endgame, which happens quite frequently. The AI makes dozens of tiny formations and moves them about obsessively. While this behavior has been curtailed significantly through recent patches (it's rare for them to have a massive number of 0 regiment formations, but it still happens, particularly with conscription heavy nations), they still split their forces much more than is necessary. Since the game seems to slow whenever more formations are in movement around the map, this can seriously impact performance. Even if you can't significantly improve pathing in this next update, I'd love to know that you have something in the works to help with that. Even if it's just something simple, like limiting the AI to building two-four larger formations in each of their strategic regions, with one for defense and the others for overseas conflict.
 
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Glad to see discrimination mechanics getting a rework! It never felt realistic that a law gets passed and suddenly people of completely different cultures live happily ever after together.
My suggestion here is that you have primary cultures in incorporated states gain radicalism according to the degree of difference between them and non-primary cultures living among them, scaled by the non-primaries' population percentage. For example in the USA, Afro Americans will generate less radicalism among Yankee/Dixie compared to a purely African culture, and Irish pops will generate even less.
This way, the player has political incentive to keep out non-primaries with too much cultural clash, rather than it just being a no-brainer of "more migrants good".
Plenty more could be done here, too, of course, like amplifying said radicalism among unemployed primaries when non-primaries are taking jobs they want, etc.
 
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Wonder how that "leader ideology chance" UI is going to interface with historical characters. Currently if a historical character can spawn they will, overriding the regular ideology weights. It might be fun to have a little "Historical Character Approaching!" UI element or something.

The IG's should have factions where leaders with different ideologies appear and vie for power. The amount of leaders would depend on the size of the IG and technologies/country.
 
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""Let them eat Fish-Law" political movement is formed "