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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #146 - Diplomatic Treaties

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Hello Victorians,

My name is Alex, I’m a multiclass programmer and designer on Victoria 3 and today it’s finally time for another Dev Diary on this very Happy Thursday!
Today we will be taking a look at Diplomatic Treaties, one of the features arriving with the free 1.9 update on June 17 together with our Mechanics Pack “Charters of Commerce”.

Before we begin though, I should mention that today is a public holiday (ig_tradeunions) for us here in Sweden (and in a lot of other places). This dev diary was as usual written ahead of time, but when it comes to questions, this means I won’t actually be around to answer them when it comes out. Instead, Martin will be around to answer some of your more pressing questions to begin with and I’ll try to answer any remaining important questions on Monday (as we also get tomorrow off as a bridge day).

With all that said, I should also remind you that as always any values, texts, designs, graphics etc. are work in progress and are subject to change!

But now, without further ado, enter Treaties:

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Diplomatic Treaties​

As part of the changes to the World Market we described in Dev Diary #143 and with Trade Routes as you know them going away, we wanted to introduce a new mechanic that let you actively establish pointed strategic ways of elevating your industries or exploiting other countries through trade. We wanted more ways for you to peacefully (but aggressively) compete against your rivals (and allies) and establish your dominance across the globe.

Initially, this was drafted to be a relatively simple tit-for-tat deal: “you give me grain, I give you coal”. But we of course got thinking and, particularly in the context of how often the community asks for more in-depth diplomacy, we thought: what if we went a step or two (or twenty) further and made it a full-blown system of treaties where you can weigh a bunch of different types of things against each other? Maybe to get Prussia to agree to an alliance you can sweeten the deal by promising to give them a certain amount of weapons every week. Or maybe you can say you’ll pay off Haiti’s debts in exchange for them granting you investment rights.

And well, that’s what we did.

Diplomatic Treaties are a new way for you to interact with other countries diplomatically. They are, in a way, a natural extension of what the diplomatic actions and pacts currently in the game do (more on that later), but instead of just having you propose one thing at a time in a vacuum, you can combine them and have the whole context of what you want be available and weighted together.

Pedro had some aggressive negotiation tactics
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In short, the way it works is like this: you decide you want a treaty with another country, so you open the Treaty Draft panel (shown in the animation above). You then select what articles you’d like to have, both offers and requests. When you’re happy you send the proposal to the other country. They can then look at what you have proposed and either accept or reject of course, but they can also choose to negotiate further. Negotiating further lets them tweak the proposal however they want and then send it back to you. This is then repeated until either you agree on a treaty or you decide to just end the process. Assuming you sign the treaty, it is now in effect and remains so until either side withdraws from it.

A big crux on a system like this is of course how the AI handles it. We want to make sure that you can’t just scam the AI, but we also want you to feel you are drafting clever treaties and making use of any advantages you might have. In particular, we also want to feed into the fantasy of you being able to draft clearly unequal treaties with other countries because maybe you are able to remind them that you have big boats and a big army next door. These are all goals we have in mind while working on the balancing of this feature.

Before we go into the details of this a bit more though, I want to specifically address something I know will come up in the comments: are multilateral treaties possible? No. Making this system support multilateral treaties would be on a completely different level of complexity and would be a massive undertaking. If nothing else it would immensely complicate the UX and require a completely different way of tackling AI, drafting and all that. So, unfortunately, it’s not feasible. That is of course not to say that we don’t want multilateral treaties (they would be super cool!) or that a system like that couldn’t in the future build on treaties, but at least for now, it’s not something we are doing.

Enough of that though, let’s dive into the details.

Articles​

This is the core part of treaties that actually defines what they do. Articles have a few different classifications. On a fundamental level, articles can be either Mutual or Directional. This mostly just indicates whether the article is something that affects both sides equally or not. A prime example of a mutual article is an Alliance: both sides are involved equally. On the other hand, Transfer Goods is an example of a Directional article: one side (the source) is sending the goods and the other (the target) is receiving them.

The next important aspect of articles is Inputs. Some articles have required inputs and others do not. Again, an Alliance is just an Alliance, you don’t need to define anything else, but for Transfer Goods you need to specify which goods you want to transfer and how many.

Supporting Texas with some good ol’ ammo
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Articles can have a number of different inputs depending on what they’re meant to do.

What these inputs are actually used for differs and is up for the article to define.

As for what articles you can expect to be in the game, a lot of them will be things we are moving over from the old diplomatic actions system. This includes of course Alliances and Defensive Pacts, but also e.g. State Transfer and Join Power Bloc and if you own Sphere of Influence, Investment Rights.

For the majority of the articles that have counterparts as diplomatic actions, the corresponding diplomatic actions or pacts will be removed and Treaties will be the new way through which you access them. Do note that not all diplomatic actions have been made into articles, only the ones that made sense, this means that actions like Declare Rivalry or Improve Relations will still work as they used to.

We’ve taken the opportunity to rework Treaty Ports by turning them into an article instead of a consequence of geography. No Treaty, no Treaty Port! (Historical treaties aren’t setup yet, so ignore the date and binding time details)
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In addition to those, we also have some completely new articles coming with 1.9. One of them Lino talked about on the previous Dev Diary DD #145: Military Access. That Dev Diary already went into detail on how Military Access works, so let’s talk about the other new article coming with 1.9: Transit Rights.

Who’s gonna play Switzerland as their first run when 1.9 drops?
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If Military Access lets you march your troops through another country, Transit Rights lets landlocked countries pass through a country to access the world market. This can be chained through multiple countries if needed. Switzerland stans can calm down.

Ending a Treaty​

A Treaty ends when either side withdraws from the treaty. Easy. Of course, if you gave away Angola in exchange for Spain transferring you a certain amount of money every week, you want to make sure they actually follow through and you don’t get scammed. This is where binding periods come in.

When signing a treaty, you also define for how long that treaty will be binding (e.g. 5, 10, 15 years). When the binding duration for the treaty lapses, either side can end the treaty at any point without consequences.

We’re still looking at a few alternatives for how to pick the binding period. This is one, but it could also maybe be a slider?
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You can still end a treaty before the binding period ends of course, but then you would be in breach of the treaty and subject to hefty penalties depending on the articles present in the treaty.

(Re)Negotiation​

If you made some poor choices and a Treaty is really not good for you, you can attempt to renegotiate the treaty instead of just withdrawing from it. To do so, you select what treaty you want to renegotiate and simply click on the button. This will bring you to a flow similar to the original drafting panel, but instead of having a blank slate, the existing articles will be the baseline. From there you can add or remove articles, change inputs or even change the binding period. When you’re happy, you send the proposal as usual and the other side has the opportunity to respond. If they agree, great, the old treaty is replaced with this new one. If they reject your offer though, the old treaty remains in force as it was.

New Granada is starting to feel like maybe this wasn’t such a good deal after all
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It is worth noting though that some articles are not renegotiable. This mostly applies to articles that have some kind of immediate effect upon signing, like transferring a state, because you can’t just undo that simply by changing the terms somewhat.

Non-fulfillment Consequences​

Say you are playing as Belgium and you need paper, but don’t feel like actually making it yourself. You could set up a treaty where you give the Netherlands some of your Sulfur and in exchange they give you some of the Paper they produce. They agree to this, but then for whatever reason, say a foreign power annexed their only paper mills, they are not able to produce the Paper they should deliver to you. This would likely lead to a shortage of Paper in the Dutch Market which would mean they are not able to deliver the Paper to you.

In such a case, the Netherlands would be considered to be in non-fulfillment of their part of the Treaty. When that happens, generally one of two things will happen depending on what Article is not being fulfilled: if it’s a serious breach, like not answering the call of an Alliance, that will break the whole treaty and the party at fault will receive all the penalties tied to an early withdrawal if the treaty is still binding.

For less serious breaches though, like with the example above, what happens is that the other side of the treaty will be inactive until the breach is addressed, at which point the treaty resumes as usual. In our example, if the Netherlands stopped delivering Paper because they had a shortage due to not producing it, Belgium would stop delivering Sulfur in return as well. This would then hold until the Paper deliveries resume. If there are any other articles on Belgium’s side (including mutual articles) those are also inactivated for as long as the other side is in non-fulfillment. The side that isn’t fulfilling one of their articles stays active though.

Finally, I’d like to note that not all articles will be non-fulfillable. For some articles like investment rights, you can’t not fulfill it, it just happens anyway.

Obligations​

As usual, you can call in obligations to make countries more likely to accept a treaty you propose. When it comes to how you get those obligations we’re making some changes though. Broadly speaking, you will be able to say you consider a certain treaty as essentially a favor to the other side. This will reduce their acceptance of the treaty, but in turn, if the binding period of the treaty lapses and everyone fulfills their parts it will grant you an obligation you can then use as usual.

Signed treaties will take on different names depending on different circumstances. There will also be some historical treaties scripted in with their historical names. Additionally, you will also be able to give your treaties a custom name if you so wish. (shout out to Default Window Line Two)
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Modding​

As always we have made an active effort to keep this feature as moddable as possible. Many times when thinking about how to solve a certain problem we could see an easy solution which would just work within the assumptions of what we have planned to do with the feature and a more complicated solution where making things work on a more abstract level meant more combinations were possible for modders and as much as possible we chose the latter. As such, I’d like to take a little bit of time to talk about what you can do with this system, primarily centered around modding articles.
A lot of article modding is similar to diplomatic action modding: you can set AI weights, modifiers, effects, costs and so on. What is a bit different here with how articles work, is that you are also able to set if an article should be mutual or directional, but more importantly, you can have the article take any combination of the following inputs (although only one of each):

  • Quantity
  • Goods
  • Building Type
  • Law Type
  • Strategic Region
  • Country
  • State
  • Company
You can then reference these inputs in the immediate effect of the article to do whatever you want that can be done in an effect block.

A little example of how flags and inputs are set in script on articles
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There are of course some significant parts of articles that are hard coded, but we tried to make them flexible in that. For instance, most vanilla articles work by setting behavior flags. So Transfer Goods has an is_transfer_goods flag. This then tells the code what behavior it should call and makes it take in the expected inputs that is_transfer_goods requires. There’s also say is_investment_rights, or is_alliance. And the cool thing here is that you can actually to some degree combine these. So if you want to make an article that grants both military access and transit rights at the same time, you can do that. The main limitation here is if you have two flags that look at the same input type, they will have to use the same input. So combining transfer goods with no tariffs would necessarily both target the same input.

Another cool thing you can do is mod the non-fulfillment conditions. You could for instance have a version of Transfer Goods that is only active while the countries are at peace or something and then if that is broken maybe you’d want the treaty to auto-break or maybe you want it to freeze instead. Up to you.

Charters of Commerce​

While everything I have described so far will be part of the free 1.9 update, the Mechanics Pack Charters of Commerce will also include a number of new articles exclusive to it:

  • No Tariffs on Goods
    • The country is not allowed to set tariffs on a specific input good when trading with the World Market
  • No Subventions on Goods
    • The country is not allowed to set subventions on a specific input good when trading with the World Market
  • Prohibit trade of good with World Market
    • The country is not allowed to trade a specific input good with the World Market
  • Law commitment
    • The country commits to passing a specific law. As long as they don’t, their side is not fulfilled and the other side of the treaty is inactive
  • Non-Colonization Agreement
    • The country is not allowed to colonize a specific strategic region
  • Grant Monopoly to Foreign Company
    • Tune in to the next dev diary when Lino will talk more about this

Portugal would really like to be left alone with their colonies
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I feel like there is something I forgot to mention…hmmm

Just one more thing​

There’s one more thing I’d like to show before we end this though. In addition to the flow I’ve already explained above, there’s another way Treaties can be used: Diplomatic Plays.

In 1.9, as part of the free update, we’re adding a new war goal: Enforce Treaty Article. This war goal lets you select between a number of articles that are specifically classified (in script) as enforceable. You can select this war goal multiple times targeting different articles. Then, at the end of the war, all instances of the war goal against the same country will result in a War Reparations Treaty against that country. This treaty, being enforced, cannot be withdrawn from.

What this means is that on a base level you can have war reparations work as they used to, but if you prefer, as part of war reparations you can instead demand getting investment rights in the country in question. Or you can prohibit them from trading weapons and artillery with the world market. Or you could mod some other article we haven’t thought about and do that instead. Or all of the above.

Now you’ll have more ways in which you can make the Prussians pay
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Alright, now that was actually all I had to show you today. I hope you are as excited about all this as I have been to tell you about it. It’s been a whole journey to work on it and it’s awesome finally getting to share it with you all. Let me know what you think: are there any article combinations you are particularly excited about? And for the modders out there, have the modding gears started turning already? I’m very much looking forward to seeing what clever treaties you all come up with and hearing about all the backstabbing in MP when 1.9 releases on June 17.

Before that though, Lino will be back in two weeks to tell you some more about what we have been cooking with Companies and Executives. Until then!

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Can you confirm if non-colonization will remove the other countries colonies or just unallowed them to continue colonizing? If you want to remove them from there, would you have to ask for the state they colonized in? Would the treaty also apply to the country's vassals? What about if you don't colonize in an area but you conquer a country located in that state that has uncolonized land next to it?

I assume you can give up a whole state and manage to sneak in a treaty port article?
 
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Is it possible to propose a treaty during a diplomatic play? It would add so much to the diplomatic play system.

The AI might reject 'give me this big concession for this small concession' if I offered the treaty alone, but might not reject 'give me this big concession for this small concession OR WE GO TO WAR OVER IT', and adds a new layer of risk/reward to diplomatic plays.

At the same time, having Diplomatic Play treaties address different war goals could be another level. Suppose I as France promise Russia some Prussian province in exchange for backing me in a play. Russia does, and as such I get the Prussians to agree to a settlement that gets me what I want BUT leaves Russia out to dry. I would obviously make Russia furious, but I accomplished my goal without firing a shot by escalating the crisis.

Seems like the most natural extension of this system to make diplomacy in Victoria really powerful and useful.
 
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Happy monday everyone! I tried picking a selection of questions that came up, but there's quite a lot of them, so sorry if I didn't get to yours!

So, what classes does Alex have?
Warlock/Barbarian?
Bard (Designer) and Sourcerer (Programmer)!

Looks great. That first UI looks beautiful.

Couple quick questions:
Have past menu themes been updated to change new UIs?
With how many countries there are, and new diplo demands, etc will we be given a bit more diplomacy mana/maneuvers?
And what functionally happens when a treaty is about to and when it expires?

Also, I probably missed this previously or forgot but when will the DLC be listed/will it be part of a pass?

Super excited for this and trade rework. Great work.
  • Themes update mostly "automatically", but yes, all previous themes will still be available to use.
  • We're looking at rebalancing influence/maneuver/infamy costs a bit to make sure people have good flexibility to play around with the system.
  • The treaty doesn't really expire as such, the binding period ends and after that the treaty keeps going until either part cancels it.
  • The DLC is listed and part of the Expansion Pass 2 :) You can find it on Steam

This sounds great, just one minor tidbit, is it possible to have custom names for the treaties? (Eg reading the no tariff treaty would be funny to sign a NAFTA treaty etc with Mexico).
Yes!

Would you be able to set how much goods you can transfer, or is it fixed? I would love to create a say massive oil deal with the US rather than deal with minute numbers
It's a custom (but capped) value you can input yourself.

Few more questions :
  • Will the AI decsion making on this be moddable?
    • e.g. is it possible to have things like the Alaska purchase or Suez/Panama be completely dynamic (or railroaded rather than through decision)
  • Is there anything for technology sharing or inviting foreign experts for unrecognized countries?
  • Does this touch subject interactions at all?
  • Could we get an article for non-intervention in strategic region?
  • Yes!
  • Not for now, unfortunately. We'd need to a new input type for technology, which is definitely doable, but outside of the initial scope of the feature with 1.9. Definitely something I'd like to add later on though.
  • No.
  • It was part of our early ideas, but didn't quite make the cut for now. It's definitely one of the more compelling potential articles we could add though and I'd be suprised if we don't add it some time in the future. Not for 1.9 though

Is it possible to set the goods transfer to percentage of production? Since just numerical values very quickly lose their value due to booming production.
We're looking into some solution like this, but most likely for release it will just be an absolute value. What you mention is something we identified, but it has some complications for how to make everything work together so we're not doing it right now.

Is there gonna be a cap in transfer quantity? For example: money transfer is capped at 5000 pounds per week or goods transfer is capped at 500 per week.
And another thing, could we make a treaty that sets tariff for everyone but you on another country? For example: I, as britain would like to have no tariff on China while at the same time making them set a 50% tariff on anyone else to get a true monopoly
It will be capped, yes.
Think Wiz already answered, but no.

One or two things could we also add a mximum length to treaties? That way wedont have to worry that we pay goods longer than intended.

The other thing will there be a wargoal to reinforce a treaty that was abandoned? Like if I banned them from rrading military goods with the world market and they abandone it can I reenforce the treaty via a wargoal instead of recreating it?
The original design had both a maximum and a minimum lenght like you describe, but it ended up feeling cumbersome to have to define all of that, so we ended up with just a binding period after which the treaty continues until someone cancels it.

There won't, but I quite like that idea. Would be cool to do for a future update.

Patch 1.9 is heading to greatness. So you can only have one treaty per country that you go on updating right? Or is this intended to be one treaty at a time over a century?
You can have as many treaties with any country as you want. As long as you can afford them of course.

Are there any convoys costs for goods transfer?
Yes!

Quick question regarding modding:
Can we mod our own articles that execute something more "abstract" that isn't directly exchanging a good or a diplomatic action? Or in other words, basically an article that turns on a country flag or runs a scripted_effect for example?

Like let's say mod in an article that is "Adopt Macarena as National Anthem" and it has some custom tooltip description, and in the article there's like a block similar to decisions that's something like

Code:
    when_taken = {
        trigger_event = {
            id = macarena.1
            popup = yes
        }
       
        add_modifier = {
            name = st_vitus_dance_macarena
        }
    }

Is that something that's possible?
And/or will there be some kind of condition check that's something like

Code:
has_article = article_macarena

has_article_from = {
    article = article_macarena
    from = SPA
}

Before hitting send, I also looked back at the short segment, I assume something like I'm describing can be done by not having relevant flags, right?
You can set any modifiers or effects as you like through articles, yes. There will also be triggers like that, although the syntax is different. (more of a every_scope_treaty / every_scope_article kind of thing).

Great dev diary.

Some points I would bring up.

-Some treaties were essentially part of the peace settlement. Are you planning to somehow have the peace system and treaty system attached or potentially attached? Because I think that would be a good idea. What I see you currently have here is a war goal, which is great, but better would be if the peace settlement came as a comprehensive treaty, or at least CAN with an additional option.
Currently, I think you're going to have one or two war goals enforced, that are then separate from any other benefits you wish to extract from the nation that you are now put in a truce with.

-Scripted Treaties? If we're talking about the Unequal Treaties, are you planning on having the broad template of what it entailed in there`? Or allow an event to draft it? Because if we want a historical game, there needs to be an easier way to emulate that history.
  • We're not currently actively looking into incorporating treaties fully into diplomatic plays / replace the peace deal negotiation, but there's probably parts of the system that could be reused if we did. It's not a 1:1 thing though, unfortunately.
  • There won't be templates for treaties, no. Unequal treaties more means you selecting articles and inputs that lead to a treaty that isn't balanced. It's up to you to come up with them.
  • Aside from that though, there are effects that let you create treaties from script or events if you so wish with mods (it's how we do historical treaties present at game start)

Might just be the placeholder values, but longer binding times would be nice. Need a 99 year lease of Hongkong etc. Also, just say 1 year rather than 365 days to keep things consistent.
They are indeed placeholder values. Not sure exactly what the max will be, but at least 50 and 99 or 100 sounds reasonable as long as it doesn't cause issues with like the AI.

on will remove the other countries colonies or just unallowed them to conti
It just blocks colonization from continuing to expand, doesn't remove existing owned territory.
 
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Have you considered adding “offer loan” as an article? It could help simulate the domino effect of a global depression if a loan is yanked all of the sudden from a country that depends on that money to maximize imports/exports to others.
 
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Love all the work your putting into Victoria 3 but Im kinda confused on a planned update. With the upcoming Balkan dlc how come Greece dosent get any work done while countries that arent even playable at the start of the game get flavor? There literally will be a balkan war mechanic where Greece was a huge player in but it still gets no flavor??????
 
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Can you confirm if non-colonization will remove the other countries colonies or just unallowed them to continue colonizing? If you want to remove them from there, would you have to ask for the state they colonized in? Would the treaty also apply to the country's vassals? What about if you don't colonize in an area but you conquer a country located in that state that has uncolonized land next to it?

I assume you can give up a whole state and manage to sneak in a treaty port article?
Why would it remove colonies instead of stopping colonial growth?
 
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Hello Alex, this looks great. I can't wait to see what else you at Paradox have planned.

One thing I'm confused about is strong arming other countries into signing treaties. How would that work? Will there be a constant modifier based on relative army strength, or will it be an option you click to increase acceptance at the cost of relations, and perhaps infamy.

I'm a bit disappointed that Multilateral Treaties won't be implemented, but it's understandable given the development headaches they would cause.

That's it, have a great day.
 
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Would treaty gets some deeper mechanics, like
Visually I prefer the signature seems "really signed by certain character", which also means not only the ruler can be responsible for signing the treaty.
As different treaty are welcomed or not welcomed by some people, the signatory may gets or lose popularity, like a Munich Agreement in VIC3 period may be popular for German Chancellor and not for British PM
The treaty may also have influence on political movements and diplomatic relations, like in history, the dissatisfaction of Treaty of Versailles to allow Japan to retain territories in Shandong(surrendered by Germany) sparked protests and urged Chinese people to shift to natioalism and communism
 
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Making sure the AI can handle this feature is obviously a very high priority. It's a complex challenge, so I'm not going to promise there won't be some AI treaty cheese that we'll have missed on release, but we're committed to continually working on treaties both in terms of adding articles and fine-tuning the AI.
Great to see this addressed. Would have been really nice to have a dev diary about how the AI uses the treaties too!
 
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I believe one of the biggest issues with the diplomatic plays in the game involves military conquests and wars. A war can start for a seemingly random reason like the death of a certain Austrian duke and end with empires destroyed. However, in the game, if a war starts over something like a territorial dispute over an island in the Atlantic, and thousands die, countries collapse, you're still locked into that initial war goal the island in the middle of nowhere even if you've completely occupied your opponent's territory
 
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The treaty doesn't really expire as such, the binding period ends and after that the treaty keeps going until either part cancels it
Can we renegotiate a treaty that is nearly expired (or already has expired) and add a new binding period?
 
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This is exactly the feature I was waiting for — great work!
Could you also add a slider for the binding period?

Additionally, I’d like to ask:
Will foreign recruitment treaty, similar to the historical Gorkha recruitment model by British enforced through sugauli treaty (where individuals are recruited from a non-colonized foreign state), be supported?
If not, will it be possible to be represented in this system?
 
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Is this the only way to directly negotiate/affect direct trade? Something that would increase both competitive advantage for normal trade with a bilateral treaty. Or, with gold too, is there something like "market (owner) price".
Is there anything preventing the traded goods from going to the global market or even again to the country selling them to you?
 
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