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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #17 - Migration

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Hello and welcome to yet another Victoria 3 dev diary. Today’s topic is Migration (meaning the movement of Pops between states), what role it plays in Victoria 3, and how it functions mechanically. There are two types of Migration in Victoria 3: Intra-Market Migration and Mass Migration, and we’ll be explaining both of these starting with Intra-Market Migration.

Intra-Market Migration is the movement of Pops between two States that are part of the same Market. Barring certain exceptions (such as slaves not being able to migrate, as covered in the previous dev diary), Pops are generally always able to move between States in the Market, though the number of individuals that are able to change their homes on a weekly basis varies based on factors such as the local Infrastructure and Market Access in the two States.

Which Pops migrate from and to what States depends on the Migration Attraction of each State. Migration Attraction is a value that is based on the average Standard of Living in the state, and modified by various factors such as over/underpopulation, unemployment/available jobs and so on. It is possible for a country to directly encourage Migration to a specific state through the ‘Greener Grass Campaign’ Decree, at the cost of some Authority. In general, Pops will move from States with a low standard of living and a lack of employment opportunities to states with a high standard of living and jobs to offer. States with a low population compared to the amount of available land are especially attractive to economic immigrants.

Kansas, already an attractive state for American settlers due to its sparse population, has been further prioritized for migration through the use of a Greener Grass Campaign decree
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Discrimination, too, plays a role in migration. Pops that are being discriminated against in a particular State, and have the opportunity to migrate to another State in that market where they would not be discriminated against (perhaps because of multiple countries sharing the same Market, and one of those countries having more liberal citizenship or religious laws) will take that opportunity in greater numbers, provided of course that there is an underlying economic reason for them to want to move there in the first place. After all, while enjoying voting rights is certainly nice, putting food on the table is higher on the agenda for most Pops.

Discrimination can also have the opposite effect: Pops that are already enjoying full citizen rights are generally going to need to be in pretty dire economic straits to consider moving somewhere where those rights are going to be taken away, and in the case of a Pop that is going to be discriminated against no matter where they go in the Market, they tend to stick to their cultural Homelands.

French colonial settlement policies means that their colony of Algiers receives a steady trickle of immigrants from mainland France every week
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So, what then of Mass Migration? Mass Migration is a mechanic introduced to try and model the migration of large amounts of people to places such as the US, Brazil and Australia in the 19th century. Mass Migration can happen when a particular culture experiences Turmoil, which is a product of having a large number of radicalized pops. A culture that has enough Turmoil to meet the threshold has a chance to create a Migration Target somewhere in the world, which is a flag set on a particular State that attracts huge numbers of migrants from that culture over the course of a limited timespan to that State and any States neighboring it.
Migration Targets are more likely to be created if the Pops in the culture have a low Standard of Living and high Literacy, and particularly likely to be created if there is widespread starvation among the Pops of that culture.

The selection of States for Migration Targets is based on a number of factors, including the state’s Migration Attraction, whether or not the culture is legally discriminated against in the country, and if there is a logical ‘path’ that Pops of the migrating culture would be able to follow from their Homelands to the target (such as trade routes). There is no inherent advantage in certain country ‘tags’ for who gets migrants - the US tends to get migrations because of availability of jobs and land combined with liberal citizenship laws, not because they have a built-in migration attraction bonus.

Fed up with economic hardship and political oppression in their homelands, a large group of Polish people have decided to try their luck at a new life in France
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There is one more aspect of migration that we’re only going to briefly touch on: Migration Policy. This is a group of Laws which lets you set the stance of your country on migration. For example, whether you want to promote the movement of people from your core lands to your colonies, attract skilled workers from other countries for your manufacturing economy, or even just minimize all migration (external and internal) as a way of maintaining your iron grip over the population. The reason we won’t be going into this today is because it’s currently in the process of being redesigned to this end (from a previous, much simpler set of laws). We’ll try to return to it at a later time!

With that said, we’ve reached the end of this dev diary, and in fact, the end of the current string of politics dev diaries, as next we’ll be changing our focus from inwards to outwards and talking about Diplomacy, on the topic of Prestige and Rank!
 
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Gotta say it looks interesting but the tooltip on Algeria screenshot is not good. It lists a ton of states and creates a wall of text that doesn't even include the information of what country owns them. If it's based on a Market and not just internal migration, then it could be an interesting information whether the people coming here are migrating internally or come mostly from a poorer nation within same Market. Maybe have it list every country that pops emigrate from and hovering over it would actually list states and numbers.

So like: (556): (500) France, (66) Switzerland
hover over France and you see a list of
  • (300) Ile de France
  • (100) Normandy
  • ...
 
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Another very nice dev diary! One thing that jumped out at me is how free-trade areas always include a Schengen Agreement. That’s a funny way to model it, but all right.

You also mention that any nation can have a “Greener Grass Initiative,” and the American West is going to be attractive because it’s got so much unused agricultural land. Are special measures such as Homestead Acts going to be in the game, beyond this?
 
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You also mention that any nation can have a “Greener Grass Initiative,” and the American West is going to be attractive because it’s got so much unused agricultural land. Are special measures such as Homestead Acts going to be in the game, beyond this?
That’s an interesting question, which also ties into something I’ve been wondering a lot about: land ownership. How well will the game be able to model the difference between a European style estate with a big landlord and a more American West style freehold?
 
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That’s an interesting question, which also ties into something I’ve been wondering a lot about: land ownership. How well will the game be able to model the difference between a European style estate with a big landlord and a more American West style freehold?
There was a very good thread on land reform on this forum a few weeks back.
 
Do pops have a *set* happiness? In other words, if you try to tolerate everyone equally, will everyone be annoyed by that?
 
What does standard of living at a state level actually mean? Is it some sort of average based on individual POPs' standard of living in a state?
Check out the 2nd image. It shows the overall average standard of living for the entire state(8.9) as well as the average standard of living for each wealth class(8.3, 19.9, and 29.2). Also check out Dev Diary 13 if you don't know how SoL's work.
 
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If turmoil is necessary for mass migration, how will, for example, Scandinavian migration to the American Midwest be handled?

Also, will there be regional cultures with their own migration targets? For example in the turmoil of the 19th century, Cantonese people largely moved overseas to the Americas, while fujianese moved to South East Asia
 
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No, countries have fixed primary culture (one or several) and this does not change other than if the country's definition changes (e.g. through forming a new nation). Discrimination law effects are measured against the primary cultures, so a large population of non-primary culture immigrants may demand equal treatment or pack up and move elsewhere, or even demand self-governance under certain conditions.
This is something that I think should be flexible for some nations. In particular, I'd make it possible for nations that were founded as settler colonies (ie most nations in the Americas, plus Australia, New Zealand, and South Africa) to change their primary culture. Perhaps you could include an "original culture" that is unchanging and cannot be removed as a primary culture, but settler colonies don't have that. This might also be an opportunity for some kind of dynastic tags. If enough Frenchmen move to Algeria to become dominant, and Algeria later breaks away from France, shouldn't Algeria's primary culture be French (or Pied-Noir)?
 
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I think they said only discrimination by states is modeled
No I think you didn't understand. Also, states do not discriminate. Except if you means state as a synonym of country.

What I mean is, in previous VIcs and in this one too, pops have rights. Some are 'full' and some are diminished. Like citizenship, voting etc. A pop can have full voting rights in a country and another pop in the same country can have no voting rights. Does he mean by 'discrimination' that the one with lessened rights tends to migrate? Thats what I understood.

Then again, I was just wondering if there will be some specific 'discrimination' new mechanic we are unaware off and that is what he meant. That is what I was asking.
 
Will there be a block or any feature affecting migration of pop living in one nation into another nation that is at war with the former?
Because I could see that one nations simply occupies another one till the population there is in turmoil, and then hope that these pops migrate in your own country with high standard of living.
Getting the important thing, the population of the enemy, without having to take their states.
 
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Out of curiosity, how will this affect Bleeding Kansas? Will Bleeding Kansas even be possible to play out?
 
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No I think you didn't understand. Also, states do not discriminate. Except if you means state as a synonym of country.

What I mean is, in previous VIcs and in this one too, pops have rights. Some are 'full' and some are diminished. Like citizenship, voting etc. A pop can have full voting rights in a country and another pop in the same country can have no voting rights. Does he mean by 'discrimination' that the one with lessened rights tends to migrate? Thats what I understood.

Then again, I was just wondering if there will be some specific 'discrimination' new mechanic we are unaware off and that is what he meant. That is what I was asking.
I meant it as in countries
so from what I understand discrimination is caused by a tag's laws, and things like pops pressing other pops unofficially isn't a thing. as fro what it entails I don't think we really know, I assume no voting rights and less access to services and jobs.
 
How are competing metrics weighed against each other? For instance, what if a pop has a high standard of living (say through welfare or being rich) but is unemployed. Will that pop be compelled to move somewhere with jobs but a lower standard of living, or will they be content where they are?
 
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Out of curiosity, how will this affect Bleeding Kansas? Will Bleeding Kansas even be possible to play out?
I wonder about this too, both about Kansas specifically and the expansion of slavery generally. Debates over slavery in the territories is what lead to the Civil War, after all. Free Soil ideology (ie slavery cannot be allowed to expand) is what took the Republicans to the White House, not abolition.

How do slaves move from state to state? Can they? The diary seems to imply that they can’t:


Intra-Market Migration is the movement of Pops between two States that are part of the same Market. Barring certain exceptions (such as slaves not being able to migrate, as covered in the previous dev diary), Pops are generally always able to move between States in the Market, though the number of individuals that are able to change their homes on a weekly basis varies based on factors such as the local Infrastructure and Market Access in the two States.
This is concerning to me if true, and will make the reasons behind the South’s decision to secede in 1860 more difficult to capture in full detail.
 
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In old diary, it was said that :
  • Colonial State: A state that is considered to be an overseas colony. Works similarly to an Unincorporated State, but also gets increased immigration at the expense of even lower Infrastructure.
So here, can one use migration target to speed up acceptance of culture? Like target Marathi pop in Bombay to move to London en masse ? Can I make chain like : Marathi pop in Bombay move to London are cheap labor for Industrialization-> Their numbers make them become accepted culture in UK->This makes it easier to incorporated Bombay from EIC to UK?

Also, what of migration internal to state? Like a 1836 state (SW England) has arable land for max 2M pop/ 30 farms -- say 1.5M in rural farm / 0.5M in city/mine. Due to enclosure law/internal politics, 1836 Farm-area is upgraded to(in 1880) 3xFood+cash crops(So same food output as '36 but using only 10 farms with rest 20 used for wool/meat/wine/etc) and only needing 10% or 0.15M pops in rural farms --> this creates 1.35M accepted culture free pops to pack into cities for Factories or Mines or Army/Navy?

Can (Australian) Colonial State be made a target for free/unemployed pop? In above manually, by the migration mechanics available to player for UK? So that atleast 90% of migrating pop goes to CAN/AUS from UK.
 
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Would all the migration + pop boom + industrialization + urbanization lend itself to graphics?

It would feel extremely pleasing to see empty State of Kansans to change graphically - on Map AND on the image of state overview screen. With [(1850)small farm -> large farms -> towns -> Indus+cities(1900) ]-- fill-up the foreground of the state screen image.
And say, if a lot of Chinese immigrant happen to move in Kansas (due to the ahistorical play), we see the culture reflected in a few of the foreground buildings.
And maybe (please!) we can have natural\manmade wonders also reflected in the map and image?

I would really want the map graphics and state images to be dynamic and moddable as it would really add to the fun of developing my corner of the world, rather then having the good images in just West(London/Paris/EU/etc)
 
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