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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #17 - Migration

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Hello and welcome to yet another Victoria 3 dev diary. Today’s topic is Migration (meaning the movement of Pops between states), what role it plays in Victoria 3, and how it functions mechanically. There are two types of Migration in Victoria 3: Intra-Market Migration and Mass Migration, and we’ll be explaining both of these starting with Intra-Market Migration.

Intra-Market Migration is the movement of Pops between two States that are part of the same Market. Barring certain exceptions (such as slaves not being able to migrate, as covered in the previous dev diary), Pops are generally always able to move between States in the Market, though the number of individuals that are able to change their homes on a weekly basis varies based on factors such as the local Infrastructure and Market Access in the two States.

Which Pops migrate from and to what States depends on the Migration Attraction of each State. Migration Attraction is a value that is based on the average Standard of Living in the state, and modified by various factors such as over/underpopulation, unemployment/available jobs and so on. It is possible for a country to directly encourage Migration to a specific state through the ‘Greener Grass Campaign’ Decree, at the cost of some Authority. In general, Pops will move from States with a low standard of living and a lack of employment opportunities to states with a high standard of living and jobs to offer. States with a low population compared to the amount of available land are especially attractive to economic immigrants.

Kansas, already an attractive state for American settlers due to its sparse population, has been further prioritized for migration through the use of a Greener Grass Campaign decree
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Discrimination, too, plays a role in migration. Pops that are being discriminated against in a particular State, and have the opportunity to migrate to another State in that market where they would not be discriminated against (perhaps because of multiple countries sharing the same Market, and one of those countries having more liberal citizenship or religious laws) will take that opportunity in greater numbers, provided of course that there is an underlying economic reason for them to want to move there in the first place. After all, while enjoying voting rights is certainly nice, putting food on the table is higher on the agenda for most Pops.

Discrimination can also have the opposite effect: Pops that are already enjoying full citizen rights are generally going to need to be in pretty dire economic straits to consider moving somewhere where those rights are going to be taken away, and in the case of a Pop that is going to be discriminated against no matter where they go in the Market, they tend to stick to their cultural Homelands.

French colonial settlement policies means that their colony of Algiers receives a steady trickle of immigrants from mainland France every week
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So, what then of Mass Migration? Mass Migration is a mechanic introduced to try and model the migration of large amounts of people to places such as the US, Brazil and Australia in the 19th century. Mass Migration can happen when a particular culture experiences Turmoil, which is a product of having a large number of radicalized pops. A culture that has enough Turmoil to meet the threshold has a chance to create a Migration Target somewhere in the world, which is a flag set on a particular State that attracts huge numbers of migrants from that culture over the course of a limited timespan to that State and any States neighboring it.
Migration Targets are more likely to be created if the Pops in the culture have a low Standard of Living and high Literacy, and particularly likely to be created if there is widespread starvation among the Pops of that culture.

The selection of States for Migration Targets is based on a number of factors, including the state’s Migration Attraction, whether or not the culture is legally discriminated against in the country, and if there is a logical ‘path’ that Pops of the migrating culture would be able to follow from their Homelands to the target (such as trade routes). There is no inherent advantage in certain country ‘tags’ for who gets migrants - the US tends to get migrations because of availability of jobs and land combined with liberal citizenship laws, not because they have a built-in migration attraction bonus.

Fed up with economic hardship and political oppression in their homelands, a large group of Polish people have decided to try their luck at a new life in France
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There is one more aspect of migration that we’re only going to briefly touch on: Migration Policy. This is a group of Laws which lets you set the stance of your country on migration. For example, whether you want to promote the movement of people from your core lands to your colonies, attract skilled workers from other countries for your manufacturing economy, or even just minimize all migration (external and internal) as a way of maintaining your iron grip over the population. The reason we won’t be going into this today is because it’s currently in the process of being redesigned to this end (from a previous, much simpler set of laws). We’ll try to return to it at a later time!

With that said, we’ve reached the end of this dev diary, and in fact, the end of the current string of politics dev diaries, as next we’ll be changing our focus from inwards to outwards and talking about Diplomacy, on the topic of Prestige and Rank!
 
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I am writing a book on Jews who left Russia around 1900 due to pogroms and migrated to France. I don't know if religion plays any role in Victoria 3.
It's one of the two ways a pop can be discriminated against (the other being culture.)
Discrimination Laws are a bit more granular than just "primary vs others" and together with the two discrimination vectors (culture + religion) can create quite a bit of detail.


Turns out they were slightly wrong. However, the reason why the myth persisted for so long was because, while the land was fertile, the soil was very difficult to cultivate with the plows of the time. I don't think we want to see a highly densely populated Great Plains filled with loyal American settlers in the 1850s...
I wonder if it will be possible for resource potentials to be locked behind technology? (As opposed to just the buildings that exploit them.) If the Arable Land in those states is low at game start, it would make them undesirable targets for immigration because they have a low "available land" rating.

The west coast should also be better off economically - with more mineral resources, plus ports that (hopefully) allow it to avoid having to stretch land-based infrastructure all the way to NYC, it's a much better site for some early-game industry. That will raise standards of living over mostly-agrarian states, further pushing immigrants towards the coast.

Assuming that treaty ports are in the market of another country,
My impression is that they're in the market of the host nation, and they provide the operating nation with an inroad into that market. Hopefully if the next few DDs are moving into international relations we'll learn more about how this works.
 
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How frequently can happen a Mass migration?
If it happens to one of your states, how will it be notified?
 
Finally i will be able to create a "immigrant paradise" in South or Central america, or Africa and Asia.
It was very annoying the US with a passive bonus in Vic 2.

Also being impossible to get immigrants as Africa/Asia/Europe in VIC 2 was very annoying.
 
In old diary, it was said that :
  • Colonial State: A state that is considered to be an overseas colony. Works similarly to an Unincorporated State, but also gets increased immigration at the expense of even lower Infrastructure.
So here, can one use migration target to speed up acceptance of culture? Like target Marathi pop in Bombay to move to London en masse ? Can I make chain like : Marathi pop in Bombay move to London are cheap labor for Industrialization-> Their numbers make them become accepted culture in UK->This makes it easier to incorporated Bombay from EIC to UK?
Who said culture acceptance worked like that? why would it work like that?
From what I know it would depend on a countries laws
 
Mass Migration is triggered by average Turmoil in a culture, and Turmoil in turn comes from Radicalism and Discrimination. Radicalism gets particularly high in Pops that are starving, but for example if most Pops of a certain culture used to be really well off but then became oppressed and a lot poorer in their current country / countries, this could cause a Migration Target for them to go elsewhere as well.
When well-off pops don't really take part in Mass Migration it doesn't quite make sense to include them in thinking if it should even start. If for example Prussia and Austria were to ensure high standard of living to the Poles, but Russia kept them impoverished, they still should possibly emigrate. It doesn't matter to Poles in Russian Empire that in Austria and Prussia they would be well off, if they can't go there. It's a really odd idea to have places that treat a culture very well to bring up the average and in turn reduce the chance that the rest of this culture will feel like they want to go there.
 
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I played a little bit Vic2 and it was a fun game. However i do have some questions.

1. Is it possible to lets say promote your main language among other nation within your borders so you can eventually assimilate certain culture? For example German empire could promote German language in Posen/Poznan and make Poles learn it as secondary and under continued use they would eventually assimilate or some part of them. This question applies presuming that there will be something like that.

2. Is it possible for example to transfer or resettle population? Like if Russian empire decided to move Ukrainians to lets say in Central Asia?

3. This one is about Dynamic names. So lets say that player plays as Austria, can we see German localizations for states and cities? Like for example Ljubljana (Slovenian) > Laibach (German). Or if lets say Germany conquers Alsace-Lorraine it would automathicaly be renamed into Elsass-Lothringen, without the need for Reichsland decision. Or if Greece recovers Anatolia.
1. Language is tied to culture, so you can't have pops "learning a secondary language" or whatever.
2. They said you can't interact directly with pops, so probably no.
3. would be cool
 
Can migration cause a backlash at the destination? Or will this generally not happen, because they’ll probably pick someplace with plenty of job openings?
I know I sound like a broken record, but this emerges from the simulation!

Backlash isn't something created by the migration itself but rather emerging from the effects of that migration. If the people moving have a lot of Radicals, as they're prone to have since Mass Migration is triggered by high average Turmoil in the culture, this will impact the state they're moving to and by extension also the other Pops who live there. If the moving Pops become non-Discriminated in the process and perhaps are able to fill job opportunities that increase their Standard of Living, this Turmoil will dissipate quite rapidly and is unlikely to cause long-term problems. But if the immigrating Pops continue to be oppressed and can't improve their living conditions in their new country, this could become a problem for everybody.

Getting a little more granular about it, a major influx of potential labor with low expectations can also depress wages by making it unnecessary for profitable buildings to raise their wage rates to increase their attractiveness. This could aggravate stratification of the owner/shareholder classes and the working classes in the state, creating Radicals among the local population. But on the other hand, this additional labor might be exactly what is needed to expand production of local staple goods, making it cheaper to satisfy those needs. So while migration waves will always have a substantial effect on your economy and therefore politics, the precise effect it will have all comes down to the details and how you choose to deal with it.
 
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It's based on cultures yes, just because the Migration Target exists doesn't mean that all Pops of that culture will automatically be pulled toward it. The well-to-do Pops won't be interested in moving, even if the presence of the Migration Target means they technically could.
Will the pops be at 0% migration chance after arriving at a new place, and for how long in such case?
 
I know I sound like a broken record, but this emerges from the simulation!

Backlash isn't something created by the migration itself but rather emerging from the effects of that migration. If the people moving have a lot of Radicals, as they're prone to have since Mass Migration is triggered by high average Turmoil in the culture, this will impact the state they're moving to and by extension also the other Pops who live there. If the moving Pops become non-Discriminated in the process and perhaps are able to fill job opportunities that increase their Standard of Living, this Turmoil will dissipate quite rapidly and is unlikely to cause long-term problems. But if the immigrating Pops continue to be oppressed and can't improve their living conditions in their new country, this could become a problem for everybody.

Getting a little more granular about it, a major influx of potential labor with low expectations can also depress wages by making it unnecessary for profitable buildings to raise their wage rates to increase their attractiveness. This could aggravate stratification of the owner/shareholder classes and the working classes in the state, creating Radicals among the local population. But on the other hand, this additional labor might be exactly what is needed to expand production of local staple goods, making it cheaper to satisfy those needs. So while migration waves will always have a substantial effect on your economy and therefore politics, the precise effect it will have all comes down to the details and how you choose to deal with it.
Impressive.
 
1. Language is tied to culture, so you can't have pops "learning a secondary language" or whatever.
2. They said you can't interact directly with pops, so probably no.
3. would be cool
There's one more thing that i forgot to mention. When i played Vic2 as Prussia>NGF and when i conquered Alsace-Lorraine from France, each and every 5-10 years France did declared on me. Now this was frustrating cause you have to divert your forces and defeat FRA again and again. Would be cool for example that if Prussia>NGF>Germany conquers that teritory FRA lose its A/L core via Reichsland or some event or what ever. Put something like 50 or more years of peace between FRA and GER. Or that after that war FRA won't try to declare on GER unless if GER declares on them first.
 
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I know I sound like a broken record, but this emerges from the simulation!

Backlash isn't something created by the migration itself but rather emerging from the effects of that migration. If the people moving have a lot of Radicals, as they're prone to have since Mass Migration is triggered by high average Turmoil in the culture, this will impact the state they're moving to and by extension also the other Pops who live there. If the moving Pops become non-Discriminated in the process and perhaps are able to fill job opportunities that increase their Standard of Living, this Turmoil will dissipate quite rapidly and is unlikely to cause long-term problems. But if the immigrating Pops continue to be oppressed and can't improve their living conditions in their new country, this could become a problem for everybody.

Getting a little more granular about it, a major influx of potential labor with low expectations can also depress wages by making it unnecessary for profitable buildings to raise their wage rates to increase their attractiveness. This could aggravate stratification of the owner/shareholder classes and the working classes in the state, creating Radicals among the local population. But on the other hand, this additional labor might be exactly what is needed to expand production of local staple goods, making it cheaper to satisfy those needs. So while migration waves will always have a substantial effect on your economy and therefore politics, the precise effect it will have all comes down to the details and how you choose to deal with it.

But what about political changes? For example IRL migration of catholic and anti-England Irish people into USA created possibilities for catholic politicians being elected in North-eastern States of USA and for votes to be found in anti-Britain stance.
 
Will migration have any drawbacks? Will we have any incentive to curb it? I was thinking specifically of migrants that (even if they are excepted by law) have very different cultural traits than the local population. This might cause turmoil in the local pops for instance.

As an example:
Considering this system, and if the Jews have their homeland in Palestine, it would be an optimal strategy imo to except them as soon as possible and encourage mass migration of Jews from Europe to your territories. BUT if it causes turmoil in your Arab pops, maybe you might reconsider it. That sounds like an interesting dilemma to me :)
 
I know I sound like a broken record, but this emerges from the simulation!

Backlash isn't something created by the migration itself but rather emerging from the effects of that migration. If the people moving have a lot of Radicals, as they're prone to have since Mass Migration is triggered by high average Turmoil in the culture, this will impact the state they're moving to and by extension also the other Pops who live there. If the moving Pops become non-Discriminated in the process and perhaps are able to fill job opportunities that increase their Standard of Living, this Turmoil will dissipate quite rapidly and is unlikely to cause long-term problems. But if the immigrating Pops continue to be oppressed and can't improve their living conditions in their new country, this could become a problem for everybody.

Getting a little more granular about it, a major influx of potential labor with low expectations can also depress wages by making it unnecessary for profitable buildings to raise their wage rates to increase their attractiveness. This could aggravate stratification of the owner/shareholder classes and the working classes in the state, creating Radicals among the local population. But on the other hand, this additional labor might be exactly what is needed to expand production of local staple goods, making it cheaper to satisfy those needs. So while migration waves will always have a substantial effect on your economy and therefore politics, the precise effect it will have all comes down to the details and how you choose to deal with it.
But what then will prevent you from flooding your territories with Chinese or Indian migrants as soon as possible? Or (as in my example in another post) Jews in Palestine? Such large movements of people into territories with a drastically different culture usually caused resentment (turmoil) in the locals. Don't we also need a negative incentive for migration in order to make interesting policy decisions?

EDIT: I also think there is not enough distinction between state and popular acceptance of a culture which ties directly to my previous point. A people may have rights on paper but still face racism and discrimination in practice, hindering their integration in society and the workforce. So not only would mass migration of different people cause some turmoil, they would also have a harder time finding work and "promoting" in the new province. No?
 
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But what then will prevent you from flooding your territories with Chinese or Indian migrants as soon as possible?
First, you need an opportunity. You can't rely on there being a crisis that drives Mass Migration, or that it will target you if it does. If it doesn't, you'll need to bring the origin country into your national market somehow. You also need to offer a better standard of living than the origin, which shouldn't be terribly hard at first but it will grow progressively harder as you acquire immigrants.

Second, you need to be able to handle the influx of people. Remember that labor is subject to the laws of supply and demand in Vic3: if you import a lot of workers, both they and your existing workers will get paid less, and they will notice and be upset by it.
 
We've considered and experimented with adjacency-based migration in the past, but ended up deciding not to have 3 distinct systems for migration in the game. Economic migration (poor Pops moving to where the jobs are) is handled via market migration. Turmoil-based migration (destitute or oppressed Pops moving abroad) is handled via mass migration. While cross-border migration as well as a steady trickle of global migrants are certainly not ahistorical, it is irrelevant for a player when the effect is very low and difficult to explain or do something about when it's already very high. Economic migration is usually something a player is happy for and can control to some degree with Decrees, while Mass Migration is easier to signal and explain to the player and can be controlled with Laws. The effects of other forms of migration are also less relevant to model and would result in a lot of Pop fracturing (and performance problems) for no major discernible benefit.
If there's no inter-market migration outside of migration waves triggered by Turmoil, how will scenarios like Japanese migration to Hawaii or Chinese and Indian contract workers be handled? Since China isn't in the American market, it's not like the historical route of Chinese workers building the Transcontinental Railroad would be possible. Maybe there could be a system in place allowing countries to negotiate treaties allowing for economic migration, or even contract workers, mechanically similar to how slave imports work- except these workers would be paid a wage and generally return to their country of origin after their contract is up. It's a compromise between unrestricted trickle immigration and there being no inter-market immigration outside of immigration waves, and would also be a conscious choice made by the player with obvious consequences.
 
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