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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #5 - Production Methods

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Hello again and happy Thursday! Today we will be taking a deeper look inside Buildings to explore Production Methods. These determine the functions of the building, its inputs and outputs, and what employee types it requires to operate.

Many management games let you upgrade a building to increase its efficiency or expand its functionality. In these games, after the upgrade investment has been paid the impact is permanent and nearly always superior in every way to the building's previous functionality. But in Victoria 3 there are no actions without reactions, and novel innovations don't just make buildings better with no side effects. Improving industrial processes over time is to be expected, but in some cases those improvements might require goods as input that the country has scant access to, while others permit the output of a new type of end product at the expense of the old one. As a result, buildings in Victoria 3 require more flexible upgrade paths than what's afforded by permanent, linear, “no-brainer” improvements.

All buildings have several categories of Production Methods, usually between 2 and 5. Only one is active at any given time in each category. Most categories fall into one of these types:

Base: governs the general "tech level" and efficiency of the building, produces goods typical for the building type
Refining: reduces output of typical goods in favor of output of specialized or luxury goods, sometimes adding a special input
Automation: adds industrial goods as input to reduce the building's unskilled workforce requirement
Ownership: determines who owns shares in the building; typically governed by Laws

With the right technologies Food Industries can make Groceries from both Grain (Bakeries) and Fish (Canneries). They can also refine Grain and Sugar into Liquor (Distilleries). With advanced technologies Food Industries can be partially automated, drastically reducing the need for unskilled labor. Simple Food Industries are operated by Merchant Guilds (Shopkeepers), while more advanced and profitable Food Industries are owned by Capitalists who reinvest some of their dividends.

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As one example, an Iron Mine's base Production Method determines if miners use only picks and shovels or if they also use some sort of engine-driven pumping mechanism. There are several different pumping technologies which also determine what fuel is used. The more advanced the pumping mechanism the more deposits can be accessed and the faster Iron can be mined, but the more Coal or Oil is used in the process. With higher tech pumps comes a requirement for more Engineers and Machinists to be on-site to control and oversee its operation. This creates more demand for qualified workers and also opens up a number of better paid positions to those Pops who meet the qualifications.

The revolution in chemical sciences of the era also enabled the use of explosives in mining, which is a secondary Production Method category used only in mines. Once Nitroglycerin is invented, it can be used in mines to generate even more minerals, at the expense of Explosives produced by the Chemical Industry but also with a higher rate of workplace accidents. By researching less volatile Dynamite, even more minerals are extracted at the expense of even more Explosives, with the additional benefit that far fewer workers will blow themselves up on the job.

Once invented, portable Steam Donkey engines can be deployed at mining sites to drastically reduce the amount of manual labor required just for hauling. This costs the building some money in the form of Coal and Engines, but reduces the amount of money they have to pay in wages. Perhaps more importantly it frees those Laborers up to do other work in other buildings if the state is running low on workers. But if wages are already very depressed it might not be a great idea to purchase expensive industrial goods just to increase the unqualified labor pool further, so this might not be a no-brainer decision for a player to make.

In most countries, simple mines are owned and operated by Merchant Guilds at game start. These are small-time purveyors of the goods produced represented by Shopkeepers. Once mines start to industrialize, Capitalists step in to take over ownership. In most cases these Capitalists will come from Shopkeepers promoted to these newly created positions, but some might come from other Pops in the state, even other Capitalists in buildings not quite as lucrative as these new mines. There are fewer Capitalists than Shopkeepers but they draw a higher wage, and more importantly they will reinvest some of their earnings into the country's expanding industry depending on how much profit their workplace is generating for them. As new ideas spread across your society you might be able to make the mining industry publicly traded instead of privately held, and later on in the game perhaps even nationalize them to be run by government bureaucrats or turn them into cooperatives where profit is split between workers.

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Production Methods aren't limited to consuming and producing goods. Government Administrations employ Bureaucrats and Clerks who use Paper to produce Bureaucracy, one of the game's Capacities that let you govern more people and extend more state services to them. Railways consume Engines and a fuel such as Coal to produce both Transportation and Infrastructure, the former which is sold on the market and the latter which allows the state to support more buildings without loss of Market Access. Universities employ Academics that let the state guide research and development of new technologies and ideas. Virtually any kind of currency, modifier, or effect can be produced by Production Methods in buildings and can be applied in a variety of ways to the country, state, or even the building itself.

A basic Government Administration consumes 10 Paper and produces 50 Bureaucracy per fully-staffed level, but each additional level beyond the first adds a +2% Throughput bonus due to economy of scale. This increases both consumption of Paper and output of Bureaucracy, yielding more productivity from each of the Pops that work the building.

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This of course adds a tremendous capacity for modding in new Buildings and Production Methods! Embassies that increase your Influence, but which can also be configured to consume Wine and Meat at state expense to increase the speed at which you Improve Relations? Shantytown Temples that can only be built on coastlines, that consume Fish and create jobs for pops qualifying for the Deep Ones profession, increasing state mortality but also the weekly rate of the global cthulhu_rising counter? We can't wait to see what madness you unleash!

If tweaking multiple Production Methods across several categories on every single building in the game sounds a bit complex compared to linear building upgrades - you're right! Thankfully we've built a number of tools to help with this process. Foremost among these are the Buildings panel, where you can get an overview of all buildings in your country organized by major and minor type. For example you could get an overview of all Rural buildings, or all Furniture Manufactories, or all Ports. If you have buildings of the same type in several different states, you can break it down further to view the individual building. On each level you can see how profitable the building is and adjust its Production Methods. You can even set all Production Methods for a certain building type to a specific setting all across your country with one click.

From the Buildings panel you can get a birds-eye view of all industries in your country and see at a glance how they’re doing financially. You can change Production Methods on an individual building or on all of them at once. You can even expand buildings directly from this screen if you so choose, or click on one to get an in-depth view of its balance sheet and workforce.

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To minimize the requirement for mental math we have also created prediction tools that give you a breakdown of what to expect from choosing a certain Production Method, based on profitability predictions taking adjusted production and consumption into account, and summarizing which new job positions will be created and which will disappear. While it may on the surface seem obvious to just enable the Production Methods that make the buildings more profitable, keep in mind the societal effects as well - are there enough Pops in the state that qualify for the more advanced jobs this new process requires? Will the wage for these new jobs be sufficient to entice those Pops to switch professions? Will you inadvertently create a whole new class of well-to-do Machinists that may have pro-labor union sentiments? Or will the increased profits not lead to higher wages in the building because they're already competitive and fully employed, and will simply result in more dividends for the shareholders which will be funneled into increased luxury consumption? Which you choose might depend on your population’s social mobility, what politics you favor in your country (a socialist uprising may not be in your plans!) and whether you're able to supply luxuries yourself without benefiting your rival. More profitable domestic industries are never bad, but should be far from the only consideration when building your society.

Predictive tooltips will explain the anticipated impact on the building’s Balance as a result of changes in production, consumption, and wage requirements, as well as the changes in employment that could also impact the country’s politics over time. You will also be forewarned if there aren’t enough qualifying Pops to take on any new professions created, as this could limit your industry’s effectiveness.

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That is all for this week. We will return to discussing more economic intricacies later, but for the next little while we'll be exploring domestic politics - starting next week when Martin will be presenting Interest Groups!
 
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Please reconsider the name Buildings. Companies and institutions are far better names.
While I agree that "Buildings" is not a perfect word for this, Companies and Institutions are way worse. Don't forget that things like Urban Centers and Subsistence Farms are also Buildings, calling them "Companies" or "Institutions" makes no sense.
 
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Can I just say that I do NOT approve of the font you've picked for this game. Especially for the numbers, but also the text. It reminds me of Imperator and also makes the game look like one of those cheap Tycoon-games. Wish you'd gone for something else.
 
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Fully agreed with Complex => Good for Victoria! We still want to build tools to make the feature accessible and manageable though. You should be spending your time making informed, meaningful choices, not have to crunch dozens of numbers in your head or press 37 buttons to execute on your intentions. In the words of our Product Manager, "complexity is not the same as complicated" :)


Holy crap dude, marry me please...
 
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Oh my! I cannot wait to tend my garden!!

A question, as trains will require engines + a fuel, am I to understand that there will be different production methods for engines as well? Eg. One for regular + one for the armored variant? Or would it be more along the lines of more output of engines using advanced methods/tools?
 
I cannot express the joy and anticipation I'm feeling towards this now. You've outdone yourselves, and deserve a pat on the back.
 
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Yeah, there will be a cost for changing production methods, though we're still iterating on that part so not ready to explain exactly how it works.
Will the mechanics reflect how state run entities are generally inefficient compared to capitalist run industries in RL?

Something like a management bar, where every level of managers contribute more if they think they will get dividends/promotions

And bureaucrats don't care enough etc.
 
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"A basic Government Administration consumes 10 Paper and produces 50 Bureaucracy per fully-staffed level, but each additional level beyond the first adds a +2% Throughput bonus due to economy of scale. This increases both consumption of Paper and output of Bureaucracy, yielding more productivity from each of the Pops that work the building."

I am not sure I really believe much in economies of scale in centralized bureaucracy, at least not in this time in history. At least I hope there is also a significant need for local administration, since the idea that the easiest and most efficient way to run globe spanning empire, is a lot of paper pushers in the capital, doesn't seem all that realistic to me. It would seem more logical to me to actually have ineffiencies of scale (or of distance to the areas being administered), but that you might still centralize your bureaucracy, simply because that is the only way you can get the pops with the right qualifications.
 
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From what I see here, pops choose their jobs entirely based on their wages and on whether they are educated to a sufficient degree to perform them. In the case of goods, however, that was not entirely the case, and you mentioned that certain cultures would be "obsessed" with consuming certain types of goods (the british with their tea, for example), and would try to gobble them up regardless of the price.

Wouldn't it make sense if there were certain jobs that in certain cultures people would strive towards regardless of the material incentive? Such as priests for both islamic and christian cultures or certain types of shamans in certain more isolated societies or even certain types of intellectuals, researchers and artists in societies where people fetishize that (the bohemian artists and intellectuals in Paris many of which lived in utter poverty). Hell perhaps in certain socialist countries there could be an obsession with bureacrat jobs due to the prestige of forming part of the "Vanguard".

Wouldn't it make sanse to include "obesssions" for jobs as well depending on countries and cultures which would incline towards these jobs, specially in the case of priests and other figures regarded as culturally important?
I think this sounds like a great idea. The status of being an aristocrat was significant allthrough the period, even as they lost significance, holding on to the titel could become more and more important.

I am guessing this could at least partially be modelled by promotion/demotion mechanics, with "prestigious" jobs being something that people are more likely to move into (if they qualify) and which they are less likely to move out of, even if they would profit from the change.
 
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At the moment we're erring on the side of restricting ownership quite strictly, not by government form specifically, but rather by your country's various economic laws. We want the economic laws to feel very distinct and have big impacts on the population, and if we were to permit most of them under all systems this impact wouldn't be felt as strongly. Of course these are balancing decisions and may change before release.

Will these economic laws apply to all types of industries across the board, so that e.g. only under Command Economy could you have government control over any kind of industry, or are they more granular, so that e.g. having a free health care social policy would allow you to have government run hospitals (assuming health care is even represented, which I hope), or having agrarian coop movement would allow you to have worker/supplier owned food industries? Government subsidies for industries that are vital to the military. That sort of thing?
 
While I agree that "Buildings" is not a perfect word for this, Companies and Institutions are way worse. Don't forget that things like Urban Centers and Subsistence Farms are also Buildings, calling them "Companies" or "Institutions" makes no sense.
Those aren't buildings either, so no companies or institutions are not worse they're better while not perfect because they accurately describe some things while building accurately describes none.
 
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Those aren't buildings either, so no companies or institutions are not worse they're better while not perfect because they accurately describe some things while building accurately describes none.
The word to describe all these must be abstract enough to relate to anything that exists in the province, from urban centers to railroads and from universities to subsistence farms. There is no such word, really - other than maybe "Workplaces" since all Buildings require Pops to function? But using "Buildings" to refer to buildable entities in our provinces is a convention many other grand strategy games use, EU4, Hoi4, CK and Imperator all do that. Yes, it's a gamey term, but it's established and understandable.
 
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Thanks for the weekly development diary.
 
Wow what a great DD! I really can't wait for the release :eek:
In the meantime I have 2 questions regarding yesterday's topic:
1. Would it be possible for your goverment to impose a law limiting certain types of jobs? For example the state at the expense of beaurocracy (and perchaps authority) would be responsible for distributing licenses to work as a mechanic in factory or mine. I think that this could be a cool mechanism for absolute states to control the market and economy more directly.
2. When you change a method of production there should be a drop in efficiency of your factory - would this be a flat sum to pay or would this mimic the HOI4 mechanic of production - the longer you make something the more efficient you do this and the more costly change of final product is. The same would apply for science f.e. a university specialized in maths and physics would lose a lot of efficiency of science progress turning to philosophical sciences.
 
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The word to describe all these must be abstract enough to relate to anything that exists in the province, from urban centers to railroads and from universities to subsistence farms. There is no such word, really - other than maybe "Workplaces" since all Buildings require Pops to function? But using "Buildings" to refer to buildable entities in our provinces is a convention many other grand strategy games use, EU4, Hoi4, CK and Imperator all do that. Yes, it's a gamey term, but it's established and understandable.
That's a good reason not to use it, the use of the terms building in strategy games is a dead horse trope and needs to die.
Infrastructure is better than but the best would be to break it up in several categories and not lump it all under any one term.
 
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Germany didn't do well industrially because of some naïve, romanticized, liberal notion of "small start-up innovativeness"

That isn't at all what I meant. I'm talking about more advanced production methods that don't have existing not-quite-as-good-but-already-there-and-paid-for ones to contend with, and the lack of entrenched interests in keeping things the way they are. The latter is covered pretty well by stuff like "your Shopkeepers will become unemployed, angry, and politically radical", but the former isn't, as far as I know.

Put another way, in real life there was a repeated trend where emerging (and rebuilding) industries were able to gain an edge on market leaders in other countries.

Even today, plenty of industries (and governments and militaries) have extremely archaic computer systems that require specialists to administer; it's a similar principle at work.
 
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That's a good reason not to use it, the use of the terms building in strategy games is a dead horse trope and needs to die.
Infrastructure is better than but the best would be to break it up in several categories and not lump it all under any one term.
Until we have a reasonable better alternative, I would avoid killing it. There is simply nothing better that I can think of: "Infrastructure" can't refer to the actual factories, mines and farms, "Companies" can't refer to many government buildings and abstract things like Urban Centers, "Institutions" is something different entirely. Yet all objects that are called "Buildings" can be described as... you know, buildings or complexes of buildings because they are built by humans. Separating stuff into different categories can be done, but what if we want to have an overview of everything that's constructed in our province, how would we call such interface window?
 
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Great post, thanks for sharing all the info! I'm really hyped and exited for Victoria 3 although I've never been really good with the two previous games.

There's already been so many questions that I might have missed this one. So sorry, if I am repeating stuff.

Since the means of production and factories can vary in ownership (capitalists, state owned, co-ops etc.), is there any mechanic for foreign capital and investements? And if there is, does it affect gameplay on economic or any other levels?

What I mean by this for example is, that if a state's industry is in part owned by foreign capitalists, does a part of the income made by the capitalist also flow abroad? Another example: if the player decides to nationalize an industry (for example mining) and force foreign capitalists to give up their ownership, is there any mechanic that mirrors this decision for example on diplomatic level (eg. -10 penalty on relations with countries that had capitalists invest in the now nationalized industry or in some cases a casus belli level stuff)?

I'm really interested to hear if you are planning on having similiar mechanics in the game.

Keep up the good work!
 
They will change Profession in the process, to be clear.

It's a bit nitpicky, and I know it's an herloom from the PoP system of Vic2, but if we're talking Professions, then Capitalist is a really confusing term.

As someone remarked, Capitalist is a term form Marxist theory/political economy describing a certain role in industrial production - no-one "works as" capitalist, but people owning means of production "are" capitalists. In other words, no-one would self-describe himself as a capitalist when asked about their profession.
They would instead say they're Entrepreneurs, Investors, Industrialists, or, in a slightly more lefty way, Owners.

So, if we are going all the way with "Profession" (as opposed to pop type) "Capitalist" should disappear in favour of Pig... erm.... Entrepreneurs.
 
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