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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #58 - Interest Revisions

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Hello and welcome to yet another Victoria 3 development diary. Today is going to be a fairly brief dev diary discussing some design changes in diplomacy that happened as a result of internal playtesting and feedback, specifically to the mechanics of Interests and their significance in the game.

Interests, as you may recall from Dev Diary #19, are essentially a country having a diplomatic presence in a particular Strategic Region, either as a result of owning territory there, having a subject that owns territory there, or through a Declared Interest. Back then, Interests merely limited where you start Diplomatic Plays and Establish Colonies, and acted as a guide for the AI in terms of which countries it needed to care about

With so many Great Powers maintaining Interests there, Europe is a perilous place to start a Diplomatic Play in
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So, what has changed between then and now? Well, basically, playtesting revealed two principal issues with Interests in the game. The first was that they simply didn’t feel significant enough, because they only tied directly into colonization and diplomatic plays. The second was that the number of declared Interests a country had available to them was based solely on rank, which meant that Austria with its miniscule navy was able to maintain almost as global a presence as the British with their, well, definitely not so miniscule navy.

To solve the first problem, we decided to do a little experiment - what if instead of just limiting colonization and diplomatic plays, Interests were required for all forms of diplomacy, up to and including trade? This was an idea we’d kicked around previously, but the concern was that it’d simply be too limiting, particularly where trade was concerned, because as mentioned, the only way to get more Interests was to increase your country rank, and once you were a Great Power, well that was it. No more trade partners, at least not of your own choosing.

The solution to the second problem, then, turned out to also be the key to the first one: tying the navy directly into declared Interests. The number of declared Interests from rank were reduced, and instead, Naval Bases now produce declared Interests, with one declared Interest provided per 10 flotillas that a country has. In other words, while Austria can now maintain a handful of declared Interests around Europe to look out for its national interests (pun intended), the size of Britain’s fleet allows it to poke its nose into the business of just about any corner of the world that it wants to.

Spain’s navy may not be what it once was, but it’s still large enough to allow the Spanish a greater diplomatic reach than their Major Power rank would otherwise allow
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With this change made, our experiment truly came together, and allowed us to greatly expand the scope of the Interest mechanic. Instead of just being a requirement for taking over land, Interests now signify a formal diplomatic presence in a region without which you simply do not have the ability to interact with that region at all - no French diplomats in Southeast Asia means no French diplomacy in Southeast Asia.

In no particular order, here are all the mechanics that now tie into Interests:
  • Diplomatic Plays & Colonization: As before, a country must have an Interest in a region to start a Diplomatic Play or begin colonizing there.
  • Diplomatic Actions: To conduct diplomacy with a country, you must now have at least one overlapping Interest - meaning they must have an Interest in any strategic region where you also have an Interest. For example, Texas can conduct diplomacy with Britain if Britain maintains an Interest in the Dixie Region, even if Texas has no Interests outside the Dixie region.
  • Trade: To establish a trade route between two markets, one of the two market owners has to have an Interest in any region where the other market is present. For example, if the USA maintains an Interest in La Plata where the Argentine market is present, then Argentina and the USA can trade with each other, even if Argentina doesn’t have an Interest anywhere in North America.
  • Notifications: You will only be informed about diplomatic going-ons between countries with which you have an overlapping Interest, and in states where you have an Interest in the region.

As much as the Sikh Empire might desire European allies against Britain, their landlocked position limits their options - without a coast they will have to wait for one of those powers to take an interest in North India
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Ultimately, the result of these changes were threefold: It made Interests a far more central mechanic to the game, it increased the need for maintaining a large fleet-in-being for empires with global ambitions, and it increased immersion by having who you could and could not deal with simply make more sense. An isolated Bhutan in the Himalayas now truly feels isolated, rather than inexplicably being able to send embassies to Paraguay at a whim.

That’s it for today! I’ll be back next week with another Dev Diary on a hotly anticipated topic: The AI of Victoria 3.
 
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  • Diplomatic Actions: To conduct diplomacy with a country, you must now have at least one overlapping Interest - meaning they must have an Interest in any strategic region where you also have an Interest. For example, Texas can conduct diplomacy with Britain if Britain maintains an Interest in the Dixie Region, even if Texas has no Interests outside the Dixie region.
  • Trade: To establish a trade route between two markets, one of the two market owners has to have an Interest in any region where the other market is present. For example, if the USA maintains an Interest in La Plata where the Argentine market is present, then Argentina and the USA can trade with each other, even if Argentina doesn’t have an Interest anywhere in North America.
Is it just me, or are these two bullet points essentially saying the same thing? Is there something granular that I'm missing that makes them worth separate bullet points?
 
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If you have no navy and are landlocked, does this mean that after you control your entire strategic region (your only free interest since you control territory there) you no longer have the ability to declare war or influence anyone else?
 
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BTW isn't that Occitania strategic region maybe too big? With that size it could better be renamed to "Southern France" (with "France" being "Northern Fr.").
Hot dang that's a chunky Occitania
 
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One thing I feel like isn't solved here, is that getting overlapping interests isn't always synonymous with getting interests that make sense. For example I can have a single interest available to me and decide I want to use it well to talk to great/major European powers; it makes no sense to set it on Europe as that might not see large overlap, but on Caribbeans which automatically has British, Spanish, Dutch and French interest.
Looking at the image of interests they posted it looks like Europe has a lot of overlaps
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Looks like England, France, Rhine, and (what I assume is) Northern Germany would get you all but Spain from your list. Each region later in my list has more nations that the earlier ones.
 
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Is it just me, or are these two bullet points essentially saying the same thing? Is there something granular that I'm missing that makes them worth separate bullet points?
I guess it's just to highlight the addition of trade.
 
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What exactly is a flotilla in Vic 3? From the navies and admirals dev diary it seems like it may be in part up to the player to decide what a flotillas consists of. If that is the case, tying the number of interest directly to number of flotillas seems like something that could have a very bad impact on how players, and possibly also the AI, build their flotillas.

I'm also worried about how this could affect the AI decision making. Could it cause AI countries that otherwise has no need to maintain large navies to blow huge amounts of money on navies? Or can we expect to see AI majors like Russia or Austria who may not maintain a large amount of naval bases to struggle managing their interests?

What happens to such countires if they lose their 1-3 most important naval bases? Can the AI handle it?

Also, please stop preventing players from getting players the information they want. There is absolutely no good reason to limit the information a player can get about what goes on in the world based on where a country declares having an interest. The only thing it achieves is encouraging boring micro just to get information. I can't imagine many people enjoying that.
 
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2. Is it possible to cheese the system by simply having a small colony everywhere, thus not needing to declare interests?

Portugal has been using this cheese since the 1500s. In 1836 it starts the game with at least 8 strategic regions.
 
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Is it just me, or are these two bullet points essentially saying the same thing? Is there something granular that I'm missing that makes them worth separate bullet points?
I guess it's just to highlight the addition of trade.
For diplomacy, you need to both share an interest in atleast one region.
For trade, one nation's interest has to share the presence of another's market

This means the criteria for trade is stricter.

Russia and Japan can both do diplomacy with each other if they bump into each other in China, but unless one of them has an interest in a region where the other's market exists neither can trade with the other
 
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Is it just me, or are these two bullet points essentially saying the same thing? Is there something granular that I'm missing that makes them worth separate bullet points?
Diplomatic Action =/= Trade so they differentiated them because of that

Also by virtue of Customs Union the market you are in may exist outside of the places where you have interest so the 'rules' presented in the Trade bullet are different than the Diplomatic Action one.
 
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Is it just me, or are these two bullet points essentially saying the same thing? Is there something granular that I'm missing that makes them worth separate bullet points?
The difference is where the interests need to be. If I want to diplomatically engage with the U.K, for example, I just need an interest where they also have one. So if neither are us are present in S.E. Asia, but both have interests there, we can interact.
However, if I want to trade with the U.K, either they need to have an interest in a region with my market, or I have to have in interest with theirs. Having overlapping interests in a region where neither of our markets are present will not allow us to trade.
 
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Is it just me, or are these two bullet points essentially saying the same thing? Is there something granular that I'm missing that makes them worth separate bullet points?
For diplomacy, you just need to have an interest (regardless of whether you have that interest because you own territory there, your subject has territory there, or you declared an interest in that region) in a same where they also have an interest (for any reason). So the US and the UK could do diplomacy if their only overlap was that they both declared an interest in The Andes for example.

But, for trade, one of you needs to have an interest in a region that the other's national market is in. So the criteria is that you can't trade just because you both declared an interest in the same region, and one of your interests needs to overlap with the other's *national market*, not their borders. So, for the US to trade with the UK, they'd either have to expand their national market to a region where the UK already has an interest, or they'd have to get an interest in a region where the UK's market already is.
 
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Huh, people really seem set on having their notifications enabled. I suppose as an option that couldn't do too much harm. I wouldn't want it by default though.

Are there any limits to declaring interests based on navy as well? Consider Belgium, for example. Maybe Belgium wants to tear the Netherlands down a bit and end the threat, so it declares Indonesia to be an interest, waits for literally any play, hops in against the Netherlands, and uses this isolated war as an excuse to strip the Dutch of their colonies. My issue with this is, Belgium can't even reach Indonesia really. It doesn't have that reach. That's just cheesing the mechanics because your rank gives you an interest that seems to have no limit in choice. How will that be stopped or limited?
 
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Is it just me, or are these two bullet points essentially saying the same thing? Is there something granular that I'm missing that makes them worth separate bullet points?
not quite

in the first instance they need to have overlapping intrests anywhere in the world. So if both Britain and Japan have interest in say Chile they can have diplomatic relations even if there is no Japanese or Brithish precense there

in the second instance at least one side must have a market precense hwere the other side has an interest. So Britain having Hongkong and apan has an interest in the region they can trade.

edit

third on the ball

fifth even
 
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Perhaps the free Interest is now only given in a region where your capital state is located? And diplomacy with neighbours seems always possible. Can a dev confirm this?
Interests, as you may recall from Dev Diary #19, are essentially a country having a diplomatic presence in a particular Strategic Region, either as a result of owning territory there, having a subject that owns territory there, or through a Declared Interest.
All the changes they mentioned here seemed to only apply to what interests do and how you get declared interests, so I assume the criteria for non-declared interests should stay the same.
 
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Also, please stop preventing players from getting players the information they want. There is absolutely no good reason to limit the information a player can get about what goes on in the world based on where a country declares having an interest. The only thing it achieves is encouraging boring micro just to get information. I can't imagine many people enjoying that.
They're not hiding any information from what I can tell. It's just notifications, and judging from earlier builds, limiting the amount of notifications to just the areas you're interested in is definitely preferable to ignoring the notifications because most of the time it's not relevant to you.
 
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Why remove the notifications?

You could just have then notify at different levels. Think message log from eu4.

In fact why not just give us message settings back again? One of the poorer development choices of pdx in recent years was removing customisable message settings.
 
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