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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #6 - Interest Groups

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Hello once again and welcome back to yet another Victoria 3 dev diary. Where previous dev diaries have been focusing on the economy, we’re now going to switch gears to another core pillar of the Victoria series - internal politics! More specifically, we’re going to be talking about Interest Groups, which form the nucleus of Victoria 3’s political gameplay.

What then, are Interest Groups? Fundamentally, an Interest Group is a collection of pops that espouse certain political views and want to change the country to be more in line with those views. Interest Groups are drawn from a number of different templates, but will vary in their exact views from country to country, based on factors such as the local religion, which social movements have appeared in the country or the personal views of their leader.

The Landowners is an Interest Group dominated by the Aristocracy and tends to be firmly in the conservative side of politics
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As mentioned, Interest Groups are fundamentally made up of Pops - all individuals in all Pops are either members of an Interest Group or Politically Inactive, with the ratio in each based on factors such as Profession, Wealth, Literacy etc. Individuals inside Pops contribute Political Strength to their Interest Group of choice, with the amount they contribute again dependent on multiple factors, the main ones being their material Wealth and the status (and/or votes!) they are offered under the nation’s power structure.

For example, a single wealthy Aristocrat in an Oligarchy will provide hundreds or even thousands times the political strength of a poor laborer. The total Political Strength of all Pops in an Interest Group is what gives it its level of Clout - the amount of political weight it can assert on the country and the government. It’s important to note though that Pops are not unified in which Interest Groups they support - individuals within Pops are the ones who decide their Interest Group, and a single Pop can potentially have individuals supporting every Interest Group in the game (in different numbers).

Some Pops have no political strength at all, usually due to being disenfranchised under the nation’s laws (such as people of a religion or culture that is discriminated against, or women in countries that haven’t instituted women’s suffrage). These Pops are ‘outside the system’ so to speak, unable to demand reform through the regular political system of Interest Groups, and instead having to rely on other methods to put pressure on the government, but we won’t focus on those today.

Individual members of a Pop can support different Interest Groups - or stay out of politics altogether!
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As mentioned above, Interest Groups have a number of ideologies which determine their views on which laws the country should or should not enact. Different Interest Groups will have different ideologies (the Landowners are significantly more conservative than the Trade Unions, for example - shocking, I know!) but these are not entirely set in stone - they can change over the course of the game and will also vary based on the current leader of the Interest Group, who comes with his or her own personal ideology and view of the world. Additionally, some Interest Groups in certain countries have unique ideologies colored by their religion and culture, such as the Confucian Scholars Interest Group in Qing China who (unsurprisingly) espouse a Confucian ideology.

Interest Groups will generally favor laws that benefit them in some way
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I mentioned previously that Interest Groups have a level of Clout based on the total Political Strength of their constituent Pops. Clout is calculated by comparing their Political Strength to that of the other Interest Groups in the country - if all the Interest Groups in Belgium put together have 100k Political Strength and the Landowners have 30k, they correspondingly get 30% of the Clout in Belgium. The Interest Group’s Clout will determine their classification - Powerful, Influential or Marginalized.

Interest Groups also have a level of Approval, which is based on factors such as how much they approve of the country’s laws, whether they are in government or in opposition, and how many of their individual members are Loyalists or Radicals (more on those in a later dev diary). There are numerous other factors that can affect Approval as well, such as how you react to certain events or decisions that you take.

Together, the classification and Approval of an Interest Group determines which Traits are active for an Interest Group at any given time, and how impactful they are. There are different traits, positive and negative, with positive traits being activated when an Interest Group is happy and negative ones when they are… not so happy. If an Interest Group is Powerful, the effects of any traits they have active (good or bad) are stronger, while an Interest Group that is Marginalized cannot activate traits at all, as they are too weak to exert an effect on the whole country.

Traits are, of course, not the only way that Interest Groups can affect a country, and it’s even possible for one (or several!) angry Interest Groups to start a civil war, potentially bringing in foreign countries to support them.

Keep the aristocracy happy, and they’ll be more willing to reinvest their ‘hard-earned’ money into the country
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Now, something that’s been a hotly debated topic in the community in regards to Interest Groups is Political Parties and whether they will be a part of Victoria 3 so I want to briefly touch on this. What I can tell you for now is that we are currently looking into a solution where parties can form in certain countries as constellations of Interest Groups holding a shared political platform. This is something that’s by no means fully nailed down at this point though, so don’t take this as a 100% firm commitment to how they would function. What I can tell you for sure is that we will come back to this particular topic later!

That’s all for today, though we’ll certainly be coming back to the subject of Interest Groups and looking at the different types you will encounter in later dev diaries. With July and summer vacations coming up, we’re going to take a short break from Development Diaries, but we’ll be back on July 22nd as Mikael returns to continue talking about politics in Victoria 3, on the subject of Laws.
 
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Even under democratic systems Aristocrats gain most of their political strength from Wealth. So while women Aristocrats will gain as many votes as the same number of women Laborers (under universal suffrage at least) proportionally the resulting Clout of the Interest Groups they support will be quite different.
Will there be a differentiation between women accesing the labor force and women accesing the right to vote? Historically they were two complete different things in the time frame and while women did go in the mines early in the industrial revolution they were not able to enter/ had strong impediments in place to entering most universities and skilled jobs even while being able to vote. Or will it be a multiple approach issue? Also does the game take into account that most inventions that allowed a big entry of the women in the workforce are outside of the timeframe (specially regarding birth issues)?
 
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Yes, for example Religious Schools increases Devout pop attraction :)
It’d be nice if there was a little more nuance in this system. People are bringing up Kulturekampf in this thread, but I’ll point to another example: US schools.

Initially, they were explicitly religious. A big reason for the growth of the public school movement was a fear of Catholic Irish and German immigrants not being brought up with “good, Protestant values.” It was only once Catholics began to get control of local education policy that the move towards secular education began.

This all happened under what Vicky 3 would label state schooling. I understand if this is too into the weeds to reasonably model in game, though.
 
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That’s all for today, though we’ll certainly be coming back to the subject of Interest Groups and looking at the different types you will encounter in later dev diaries. With July and summer vacations coming up, we’re going to take a short break from Development Diaries, but we’ll be back on July 22nd as Mikael returns to continue talking about politics in Victoria 3, on the subject of Laws.
First thing I am going to do in Vicky 3 is stop the Swedes from building such a strong social state. Less time off, MOAR DD's please!

But in all seriousness, this looks great. I can clearly see how ideologies of the interest groups will impact how I play and the juggling you will have to do. I am just curious, if you have a IG with strong clout, how much do you have to listen to them? I can imagine ignoring them completely could have serious consequences. How much can you get away with by partially going in another direction with out upsetting a powerful IG?
 
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Now, something that’s been a hotly debated topic in the community in regards to Interest Groups is Political Parties and whether they will be a part of Victoria 3 so I want to briefly touch on this. What I can tell you for now is that we are currently looking into a solution where parties can form in certain countries as constellations of Interest Groups holding a shared political platform. This is something that’s by no means fully nailed down at this point though, so don’t take this as a 100% firm commitment to how they would function. What I can tell you for sure is that we will come back to this particular topic later!

This could be a pretty fun way to implement parties, have they form as a country evolves politically. I suspect we might have to wait until a DLC, but they might be worth waiting for.
 
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The V3 game design just keeps looking more and more awesome. But, I keep wondering how you will write an AI that is even remotely competitive vs. a human player. I think one of your later Dev Diaries should be on how you approach AI design.
 
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Fantastic dev diary! Now I don't wanna see any of y'all on here for the next couple weeks! You go enjoy your vacation!!
 
Also on this subject is it possible, with a sufficiently homogenous and pious population to get just as much benefit out of religious schools as out of publics schools or will public schools be more expensive but ultimately superior to religious schools in every instance (at least in terms of education provided)
Public Schools will provide more literacy/be more expensive but there are more side effects (like Devout attraction, IG approval, etc) :)
 
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Russia, could be the example of the most conservative possible nation, and can stand as an autocracy until the Great War and only have revolutions and disturbs after losing the ruso-Japanese war in 1905 and in the Great War.

Also have a decent industrialisation and tech development in 1914.

You must be able to hold an autocracy if you have an isolationist policy and don’t lose war or force your war exhaustion.
 
Also I’m sorry, if the people who aren’t allowed to be voters aren’t in interest groups, then what is the point? This seems like the game is bending over backwards to represent the world pre-1848 at the expense of everything else. I expected a full political simulation, not just an imperator style simulation of the elite.
 
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IGs definitely are looking interesting! Just wish there was more said about them. I have two notes and questions:

1. It seems like IGs are not considered the same as ideology, that's pretty cool. Is it possible for my armed forces to become partially communist?

2. It seems like IGs are a zero sum game, unless I'm mistaken. That seems a bit odd to me, in a sense. Surely a landowner can also be a member of the Anglican church and provide his sizeable political clout to both causes?
In Vic II the ideological differences between classes were pathetically small. It was really annoying. Important issues were different but party/ideology support was not.
 
Very glad to see leaders with faces and names involved in this game beyond military leadership. Gives me hope for parties, cabinets, ministers, colonial governors, revolutionary leaders, abolitionists, suffragists with names and faces etc. at some point down the line.

I suspect the sheer number of them that the game will require will mean that many will be procedurally generated but as a first pass this is not bad. I expect modding groups will come along to mod historical characters in.
 
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Something completely different: I do hope the Netherlands look better from close by or the map is being worked on as well; in the second screenshot the Zuiderzee is only a tiny inlet where it should look like this.
 
Interesting system, I wonder until what point elections results and powerful interest groups can be ignored in a democracy.
In my opinion if you are a democracy and a certain interest group constitute ample majority in a election (and is impossible to form a majority coalizion with all others groups) there should be no option to ignore the demands of the most powerful interest group, even civil wars don't make sense in this case because how the official government will make a civil war against the interest group that was elected to occupy all government positions? But rivals interest groups with some minor influence could try to revolt to prevent the more powerful group of take control of the government.
 
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Can the lesser factions (like nationalists or religious minorities) eventually get to form their own IG if they get to become relevant enough or are in a country that allows it? Or are they limited to rebel against the country?
 
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Somebody on /gsg/ made an interesting proposition how to implement the parties, so I'm going to just copy paste their comment here:

just make it a law
>No established parties.
functions the exact same as they have it, this is the law in most of the world except Britain, America, France, etcetera
>Two Party System
all interest groups align with one of two parties, that party's policies are the same as the interest groups that support it, the larger the interest group the more of their policies they adopt
>Multi Party System
same as two parties but with more parties, interest groups can more closely follow their goals, for example "trade unions" would be forced to support either liberals or conservatives under two party, but under multi party they can support the socialist party
>One Party State
all (allowed) interest groups support ONE party and that party's policy is decided based on the interest groups that support it, but the party can also marginalize interest groups
realistically this would result in a communist party where industrialists, intelligentsia and trade unions try to get control, but all other groups are marginalized
 
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