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It's time for the weekly dev diary and this time it's a biggie, as we proudly announce Horse Lords, the new Crusader Kings II expansion! So what makes the proud rulers of the endless steppes unique? Well, in short, their relative lack of permanent settlements. This expansion gives the nomadic peoples of the steppes a unique type of gameplay which is not centered around Castles, Temples and Cities at all. Playing as a Nomad, you are allowed to conquer and even own normal Holdings, but they are worth little to you except as vassal cash cows. What you really care about is more grazing land for your sheep and horses. Thus, nomad hordes simply have a total population, which grows relative to how many empty Holding slots exist in your provinces (steppe provinces are best, but some other terrain types are also acceptable).

Crusader Kings II - Nomad Population.jpg


A large fraction of your total Population counts as your Manpower, which is used to raise your regiments (much like the Retinue system.) Of course, if all your fighting men are dead, it will be a while before your Manpower replenishes! War on the steppes is fast and fluid; you only occupy an empty province for as long as one of your armies is standing there, or if you build a fort there to lock it down... and even then, you do not get much war score from the open wastes.

Crusader Kings II - The Empty Steppe.jpg


This brings us to the one Holding that actually means a lot to the hordes; their capital. Each nomad clan can only one of this special holding type, but there are more upgrades for it than any of the regular types, and these improvements have more unique effects too... To really defeat a nomad horde, you need to occupy their capital (or decisively beat them in battle, of course.) However, Nomads are allowed to move their capital around often; and that means they actually pull up stakes, 'buildings' and all, and move the whole thing to another location!

Crusader Kings II - Raising Hordes.jpg


Another special twist to the nomadic hordes is that even in defeat, they are still dangerous. Should a horde lose its last province, the tribe will still exist, and may use its remaining armies to conquer another land in which to settle. Naturally, nomads can choose to settle on a more permanent basis, by completely switching over to a Feudal, Tribal or Republican lifestyle. This is done by special decision, reminiscent of how Tribes work.

Now, as the astute among you might have wondered, Crusader Kings is largely about managing your turbulent vassals, so what replaces that important gameplay aspect for the Nomads? The answer to that, my friends, is the Clans, and that will be the subject of next week's dev diary! Until then...


Khaaaan.jpg
 
It would also probably work well for a migration era or an age of antiquity mod

These mechanics would be pretty sweet for making a 5th century mod.

Hence why I'm going to roll them into a 5th century mod.
YES!!! Yay! Do it.

p.s. I will quote what I said in a DLC speculation thread earlier this year. Though if they don't follow this general direction, migration mechanics can allow all these ideas below as mods.
However a rework of the Steppes/Hordes region might involve exactly the migration mechanics that would allow both a rework of the earlier game starts, and open up the Migration era (and earlier Roman-era migrations) to the game.

-Steppes DLC to introduce the Migration mechanics needed
.THEN.
-A timeline extension back to the Plague of Justinian, then even further to Atilla, make it two DLCs
.THEN.
-China for a third, nay, a fourth DLC, timeline extension back to the "Romance of the Three Kingdoms" period in China, when Marcus Aurelius ruled Rome.
(All hail Caesar Marcus Aurelius Antoninus Augustus!) ;)

edit - Though I winked, it would be wicked fun if migrations can be done well, opens up a lot of possibilities.
 
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Of course

Wait, wait, wait.

Could I hypothetically raze every single non-capital holding on the map to make room for my horde if I conquered the whole damn thing? I understand that this means I would be giving up vassal cash cows and killing the income of the entire world, but can I do it? (I also realize that not every province is good for hordes, but can I still raze the sub-optimal province holdings to the ground, even if it means very little population in return?)

Bonus question: Can I raze the special temple holdings important to other faiths to make room for population? Would this seriously impact the moral authority of the realm in question?

I have this vision of sacking Rome and Mecca and razing them both to the ground in the name of Tengri (and to make room for more horses).
 
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What is the reasoning behind making hordes empire level? Does that just mean that they can vassalise kings and below, usurp/destroy empires, and cannot be vassalised themselves? Can clans usurp the horde or declare independence to form their own horde?

Pretty much everything in this post. Yes the clans can force a new Khan or form their own horde.
 
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Bonus question: Can I raze the special temple holdings important to other faiths to make room for population? Would this seriously impact the moral authority of the realm in question?
Personally i hope not. unless paradox somehow fixes an issue where missing holy sites can cause a crash on checking religion tab. I can see it now. two friends in MP. One of which is playing a catholic king the other.. a tribal who just razed jerusalem to the ground... Crash..
 
Wait, wait, wait.

Could I hypothetically raze every single non-capital holding on the map to make room for my horde if I conquered the whole damn thing? I understand that this means I would be giving up vassal cash cows and killing the income of the entire world, but can I do it?

Bonus question: Can I raze the special temple holdings important to other faiths to make room for population? Would this seriously impact the moral authority of the realm in question?

I have this vision of sacking Rome and Mecca and razing them both to the ground in the name of Tengri (and to make room for more horses).
As nomads you can completely level Constantinople if you spend enough effort on it. (probably gonna take more than 10 years of constant burning it)
 
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Personally i hope not. unless paradox somehow fixes an issue where missing holy sites can cause a crash on checking religion tab. I can see it now. two friends in MP. One of which is playing a catholic king the other.. a tribal who just razed jerusalem to the ground... Crash..

Yeah, obviously that bug/problem would need to be addressed.

Might have to include mechanics for reclaiming the holy site and rebuilding it a la the Temple in Jerusalem for the Jews.
 
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As nomads you can completely level Constantinople if you spend enough effort on it. (probably gonna take more than 10 years of constant burning it)

Aha, so it's not a "push button once, eliminate holding" kind of action. Is it more reliable in terms of cause and effect than razing holdings to the ground via conventional raiding (where if you loot a holding that has no upgrades, it might be wiped out)? Or is it the same mechanic just given a face lift?

I mean, I'll park a 10,000 man horde in Thrace and burn all the counties continuously for ten years as long as I'm making visible/measurable progress towards my rather insane goal. :)
 
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To iterate:

So...possibly one could mod the game to be able to play adventurers now, what with all the holdingless hordes gameplay?
technically you can allready play as adventurers. it just requires cheats and has no guaranteed stability
 
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Nomads are really a great addition I was waiting for a long time. These are all great news, especially the possibility of dynamic realms.
Maybe it has been already answered, but how is the capital represented? Is it a main holding like any other, just capable of being transferred, building and all, at any time, or does it exist on a separate level (like the patrician palace or the trade posts)?
 
Nomads are really a great addition I was waiting for a long time. These are all great news, especially the possibility of dynamic realms.
Maybe it has been already answered, but how is the capital represented? Is it a main holding like any other, just capable of being transferred, building and all, at any time, or does it exist on a separate level (like the patrician palace or the trade posts)?

I think it's the former because it can be sieged.
 
You're right, sorry. I was focussing on the patrician palace comparison.
No problem, but yes, what interests me the most is the possibility of co-existance of independent rulers within the same holding (like it is for trade posts). After all a tributary system is said to be included in the mod, if a tributary state has been submitted by a tribe, that tribe could live inside its lands while it is still independent from the Khan.
 
their shield is round and continues the trend of god awful choices in non-christian shields.

yaaay?
 
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