• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Hi again folks! It's a big day today with the release of the Common Sense expansion for EUIV! Naturally, we are releasing a patch for CKII in tandem, in order to keep the save game converter up-to-date.

Patch Notes here:
- Updated government calculation to be up to date with EU4 1.12
- Fixed the localisation issues on Mac and Linux with country names
- Ibadi is now its own main religion like it should be

NOTE: We are aware of an issue on Mac and Linux caused by EU4's recent engine upgrade, which broke EU4's ability to find the exported games from CK2. For now, you have to manually copy the exported save from eu4_export/mod to EU4's mod folder but this will be fixed ASAP by the EU4 team.

Now then, this time I thought I'd talk about the internal dynamics of the nomadic hordes. As I mentioned last time, Nomads use population and manpower rather than relying on levies and taxes from Holdings, so they tend to have a lot fewer normal vassals than other realms. To compensate for this, Nomad hordes rely on a variable number of member Clans instead. The Clans are similar to regular vassals in some respects, except that they also employ Manpower and Population (oh, and you are allowed to play as a vassal Clan too, of course), and each Clan has a special opinion called Clan Sentiment of the other Clans, separate from that of its chief. As a horde grows, it will be encouraged to increase the number of member Clans. Likewise, you can have too many Clans for the amount of available land.

Crusader Kings II - Clan Management.jpg


Effective management of the Clans takes some effort due to their infighting and Sentiments. We have added a new screen to give you a proper overview of the situation. Red lines between the Clans indicate an ongoing "Blood Feud" and green lines a "Blood Oath". A Clan can only have one "blood brother" Clan, but many feuds. Feuds are started either by simple declaration, or by raiding one of the other Clans in the realm... Yes, even though you might all be serving same Khan, nothing stops you from raiding a fellow Clan's land! Blood Oaths are similar to marriage alliances; they last as long as both of the Clan Chiefs are alive, but they are only type of alliance that allows you to call another Clan to war in internal wars (and that includes the Khan!) Blood Feuds are much more persistent and can only be settled with a payment of blood money... or by the other Clan's extinction.

Another twist to the Oath and Feud status is that actions taken against one Clan will affect the Sentiment of its enemy or blood brother, as appropriate. For example, an oath-bound Clan will also become hostile to whomever is raiding you, and will dislike any clans you are in Feud with for as long as the Oath lasts. Feuding parties are allowed to freely declare outright wars against each other, fighting over the grazing lands in a single county.

Crusader Kings II - Feud.jpg


Clans can be a bit tricky to manage, not just because of their own infighting but also because they don't follow any system of laws like the Feudal realms do; they are more about frankly expecting and demanding things from their Khan. If they view the Khan as weak and pathetic they are quite prone to attempt to have him replaced with another Clan chief (usually through membership in a special Faction.)

Apart from proposing Blood Oaths and declaring Feuds, the Khan also has access to a number of special actions against the other Clans. He can demand that they split in order to maintain balance within the tribe, or even absorb them; unless they refuse, of course! Clans are also free to adopt the religion of another Clan, should they like it better for some reason (steppe nomads are fairly open-minded about religious matters.)

I am sure there is more I should mention about Clan management, but since I really need to get back to work, I'll leave you with this. :) Next time; Tributaries, Nomad succession and dynamic mercenaries!
 
one figures there should be more for those two faiths in Vanilia due to the fact that they were the most prominit faiths of the Nomdic tribes.
Yes they will be more prominent in the history, I was referring to new potential features.
 
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:
Sorry no the top khan is called Khagan, they are all Khans/Clan-Chiefs. Its a cultural thing I believe.

Also the tier is not moddable.
Thanks for the clarification! Also, is the clan limit something like demesne limit, in that you can go over it at the cost of receiving penalties, or does it just mean that you will not have more clans than that whatsoever? What happens if your clan limit is reduced? Is there a character modifier for clan limit, like there is for vassal limit?

What influences the land demanded by your clans?

Can clans try to break independent? Can clans hold land, or are they always landless?

How does the splitting of a clan or joining of clans work?

If you annex an entire horde as another horde, will all the defeated clans be thence your vassal clans? Or only the defeated khagan's clan?
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Yes they will be more prominent in the history, I was referring to new potential features.
Ah. Does this mean that it would be possible for there to be a manichean head of religion, as they historically had or tried to establish?
 
  • 2
Reactions:
Ah. Does this mean that it would be possible for there to be a manichean head of religion, as they historically had or tried to establish?
That's not even near or related to my answer
 
  • 4
Reactions:
Also, is the clan limit something like demesne limit, in that you can go over it at the cost of receiving penalties
Yes other Clans get cranky, you don't want them cranky.

What influences the land demanded by your clans?
Your size

Can clans try to break independent? Can clans hold land, or are they always landless?
Yes clans can hold land, they can break apart and form their own Hordes

How does the splitting of a clan or joining of clans work?
It works kind of like the Revocation interaction but the result is either that you create a new clan or that one disappears.

If you annex an entire horde as another horde, will all the defeated clans be thence your vassal clans? Or only the defeated khagan's clan?
No nomads have a special thing when they get defeated and lose all their land which I think we will covered in a later diary I believe.
 
  • 12
Reactions:
No nomads have a special thing when they get defeated and lose all their land which I think we will covered in a later diary I believe.
Yes, I think it was said that defeated, landless hordes keep their troops, so they can wander the steppe in search for new lands.
 
  • 5
Reactions:
Yes other Clans get cranky, you don't want them cranky.


Your size


Yes clans can hold land, they can break apart and form their own Hordes


It works kind of like the Revocation interaction but the result is either that you create a new clan or that one disappears.


No nomads have a special thing when they get defeated and lose all their land which I think we will covered in a later diary I believe.

Thanks again for the flarification! And sorry to keep asking...

When you make a clan join yours, do the clan members become your courtiers and or your kin?

Is there any way where you could absorb another clan into yours by inheritance?

The creation of a new clan is like giving a title to an existing character, or does it creates a new character? e.g. can I reward a faithful concillor with his own clan?
 
  • 4
Reactions:
Huh so all hordes are empire-tier, or did I misunderstand your earlier post Groogy?

Anyway this stuff looks great. My biggest complaint about this game is when different religions/governments play like "feudal-lite" or "Norse-lite" or "Muslim-lite."

But here, there's a lot of effort being put into making nomads very different. I know that you said there's probably not much focus being put into Tengri (aw) but the nomad features will finally make Tengri nomads feel a lot more than just Norse with fewer features, haha.
 
Yes, I think it was said that defeated, landless hordes keep their troops, so they can wander the steppe in search for new lands.

Landless hordes? I think I better start building up my defences ready when playing as any of the Russian or Persian rulers as they will be heading in those directions very soon! I don't want to become one of their vassals or tributaries to them. I'm pleased to see improvements here. :)
 
Huh so all hordes are empire-tier, or did I misunderstand your earlier post Groogy?

No that is correct, all hordes are empire tier because several game mechanics require it (can't be vassals of others, etc. etc.)
 
  • 7
Reactions:
Huh. Ok. Giant horse icons for everyone! It'll be something new to get used to, but the in-game logic could be that the hordes don't care about silly settled conventions and ideas about empire.

Can hordes have regular, non-horde vassals? Republics can have feudal vassals and feudal rulers can have republic vassals. Tribes can be vassals and/or have non-tribal vassals too. I know tributaries are for next week but I assume those are regular independent realms.
 
  • 2
Reactions:
No that is correct, all hordes are empire tier because several game mechanics require it (can't be vassals of others, etc. etc.)

How about custom frames? So it's less obvious that 7 dudes in central Asia have the same rank as the Abbasid Caliph and Byzantine Emperor.
 
  • 4
Reactions:
Can hordes have regular, non-horde vassals? Republics can have feudal vassals and feudal rulers can have republic vassals. Tribes can be vassals and/or have non-tribal vassals too. I know tributaries are for next week but I assume those are regular independent realms.

IIRC a dev said that hordes may have feudal/republican/theocratic vassals as "cashcows". However maybe these were meant to be an example for tributaries, I don't exactly remember.
 
Ow yeah I'm going to give you guys a bit of sneak peak of what is possible to do as I really want to do this myself.

Start up as a Turkish tribe north of the Caspian Sea, migrate through Persia into the Jungles of India. Establish a power base there by breeding a massive horde of Elephants, subjugate the subcontinent and then start burning everything to the West as you spread through it as a plague. Nothing shall be left standing as the Turkish Elephant Riders plow through everything, trampling the pitiful settled people trying to hide in their cities.

THE KINGS OF EURASIA SHALL TREMBLE AS A MILLION ELEPHANTS MARCH UPON THEM!
 
  • 50
  • 7
Reactions:
So Clans and Hordes can hold counties, but they don't count towards their demesne limit because there are no holdings there (unless their capital holding is within). Can Hordes form duchies and hand out duchies, or are they just able to give counties to clans?

Will there be anything to simulate the vassal hordes that many of the larger hordes had? Will you be able to make other hordes tributary and force them to fight with you?
 
Will there be anything to simulate the vassal hordes that many of the larger hordes had? Will you be able to make other hordes tributary and force them to fight with you?

Yes
 
  • 9
  • 2
Reactions: