• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Hi all! I am Karolus Magnus, programmer at Crusader Kings II. Now is finally the time for my first dev diary! Today I will be talking about the Silk Road and Raiding Adventurers.

With Horse Lords we are adding in an addition to the trade system which is the major trade route of the Silk Road that stretched all the way from Cathay to the Italian States. It does not require you to be a Patrician or Republic however to utilize this system. As long as you own the provinces yourself you are allowed to build Trade Posts along the trade route no matter what government form you are. You can upgrade these trade posts to make the Silk Road worth even more.

dd_trade_post.jpg

However the Silk Road is much more dangerous to deal with than normal coastal trade posts as it relies on safe passage through land. If a war breaks out and a part of the trade route is caught in the conflict, the trade will be cut from that province and onwards for that branch. The trade will instead go through any other branch and result in them receiving more of the trade than they normally would. The Silk route can be viewed from the Economic mapmode but also in more detail from the Trade zone mapmode.

dd_trade_route.jpg

Next feature is Raiding Adventurers. This system was made to better represent the Normans in Northern France and Sicily in how they settled in foreign land. It is also used for nomads who lose their home. The Germanic raiding adventurers spawn with ships, but even nomads who do not get ships can travel far, as these raiders unlike others can raid in any province (except the provinces of the one who conquered your home lands).

Raiding adventurers will use the money they gain from raiding to recruit more troops, and when they have grown to a certain level, they will try to become landed. A ruler can offer to settle these raiding adventurers, giving them coastal or border provinces. They might however refuse to be settled if they do not like the lands that you are offering. Ambitious raiding adventurers will usually not be settled unless they are given a duchy. If no such offer is made however, they will eventually start a war on one of the rulers they have raided, targeting a duchy.

dd_settle.jpg


The same Settle Adventurer interaction can be used to settle the dynamic mercenaries we already covered, if you have managed to make them your friend. Settled raiding adventurers will become Feudal or Iqta depending on their religion, and also be disinherited from the nomad realm from which they came from.

One of the benefits of settling a raiding adventurer is that the provinces that are given away will be blocked from raided again in the near future.

dd_settled.jpg

Raiding adventurers that do not spawn from being conquered as well as dynamic mercenaries will get the Adventurer trait that makes the character much more ambitious and military capable. So even if they give you several benefits to settle, they can become dangerous for your future generations.

dd_adventurer.jpg


That's all for this week! Next week we are going to go through map and culture revisions and new events!
 
Well considering one of the big reasons for Crimea being important was that it was a major source of Slaves (Slavs, from which they get their name), and slavery is non-existant in CK2, I doubt they would add Crimea in as part of the trade route.

As I acknowledged the "fur route" branching along and among all those realms between the Khazar and the Baltics were important (fur, slaves and amber ) the alternative to the Persian/Syrian routes is just as much a factor and I would argue it was more of the weighty factor for Venice, Genoa and Pisa. Their insatiable need to keep their routes open drove a lot of what we would consider important in CK2 terms. So, from the perspective of the CK2 trade mechanic, the needs of silk outweigh the needs of the slaves.

It looks like Crimea is a branch of the Silk Road. It has just been cut off in the screenie. Which is probably why it's red

The goes just to Azov, if I see it well.

@theKing1988 - I do hope your interpretation is correct, although if it is, two immediate questions spring to my mind. 1st, if Pdox had the forethought to implement such a route, why not extending a few provinces further to the historical terminus was not implemented and 2nd, by not ending it in Cheron (the ERE province) do they not overvalue the current turminus, displacing the historical in importance and relevance?

@SBolshevik - If this is the case, then any power, be it the ERE, Venice or Genoa would be stupid to fight for the control of Cheron instead of focusing on the Asov termunis. What this suggests is an non-historical shifting of everything from the Crimea to Azov.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
As I acknowledged the "fur route" branching along and among all those realms between the Khazar and the Baltics were important (fur, slaves and amber ) the alternative to the Persian/Syrian routes is just as much a factor and I would argue it was more of the weighty factor for Venice, Genoa and Pisa. Their insatiable need to keep their routes open drove a lot of what we would consider important in CK2 terms. So, from the perspective of the CK2 trade mechanic, the needs of silk outweigh the needs of the slaves.





@theKing1988 - I do hope your interpretation is correct, although if it is, two immediate questions spring to my mind. 1st, if Pdox had the forethought to implement such a route, why not extending a few provinces further to the historical terminus was not implemented and 2nd, by not ending it in Cheron (the ERE province) do they not overvalue the current turminus, displacing the historical in importance and relevance?

@SBolshevik - If this is the case, then any power, be it the ERE, Venice or Genoa would be stupid to fight for the control of Cheron instead of focusing on the Asov termunis. What this suggests is an non-historical shifting of everything from the Crimea to Azov.
Azov was a historical terminus, too, the Genoans wouldn't have tried to hold it if it wasn't.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Azov was a historical terminus, too, the Genoans wouldn't have tried to hold it if it wasn't.

Its importance grew over time but only as a lesser alternative to Crimea (during CK2 times) and as the only alternative in EUiv times. Choosing the Azov locale is still not correct for this timeline as opposed to the EU timeline.
 
Then again it's hilarious how angry people get just reading about China on these forums.

I don't. I just get bored.

And don't get me wrong. I enjoy watching the crazy antics of obsessive-compulsives exercising their Pavlovian reflexes every time somebody rings their China bell as much as the next guy. It's cute, peculiar and funny at the same time, but as with all utterly predictable behavior it gets... tedious rather quickly.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Is that in any way unrealistic?
Yes and no, in reality race has fine lines with thousands of shades, in this game they are either one race or another, and having 3 generations of the darkest black complexion from only a single black individual in the gene pool is clearly off, although that ancestry should show for that long there just aren't enough degrees
 
  • 1
Reactions:
People might be against Rail Roading but I personally would love Rollo's takeover of Normandy to be an event in the Old Gods start in line with Seljuks/Timur and the Mongol Hordes.
 
  • 4
  • 1
Reactions:
Does the new trade roads allow you to create Republics away from the coast? I don't think i've seen that asked or answered in the thread yet
No, it was stated in one of the earlier dev diaries that merchant republics (the only playable kind still) need to still be coastal.
 
  • 3
Reactions:
Well, it happened partially accidentally to me in my current game :
- Charlemagne start
- I started as norse from swijod, wanted to build something like rus and normandy
- raided and started to attack england, ireland, scotland, picked a few couties here and there, got thrown out of england
- I grabbed normandy, established a duke there (the karlings converted to islam sometime later), then...
- I got distracted trying to establish a Rus bridgehead, tribal was really hard to break over there
- I got distracted further by a botched series of successions, during which through gavelking inheritance I lost the control of normandy early on
- I got further distracted by an opportunity to "reform norse religion"
- I eventually noticed that england had a king of my familly, a descendant of the duke of normandy (which had been recovered by the muslism Karlings by then)
- several hundred years later england is still controlled by "my blood" (and I finally managed to break the "muslism france")
That is in no way at all similar to what happened with William. He was given the right to invade by the Pope and someone like him exist would require:
  • A Norse ruler taking land in France
  • Flipping to Norman
  • The last king of England to die heirless
  • Both him and the King of England to be Catholic
  • The Pope to dislike the King of England
  • The Pope to grant this Norman a claim on England

Without major railroading that will happen in 0.0001% of games.
 
Last edited:
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
I'd love to see China added to the game, as well as many other regions. But considering the /massive/ size of China and the complexities of its government, military, trade, court intrigue, and even technology--I could see a stand alone ck2/pardox game focusing on China and East Asia in general being very successful. Nothing screams the ck2 spirit more than concubines killing each other to rise in rank and place their son on the throne, a scornful power hungry Empress vying for power and eliminating her rivals. An 'accident' during a 'friendly' hunting trip between two imperial princes/brothers. Having a treasonous courtier's whole clan be put to death, including the children. Or rival petty Kings all fighting for the mandate of heaven should the empire disintegrate again like in the Three Kingdoms era. However if they are bent on expanding the map even further to include such regions, maybe a theatre system like the one used in Empire Total War might help?
 
  • 5
  • 1
Reactions:
I'd love to see China added to the game, as well as many other regions. But considering the /massive/ size of China and the complexities of its government, military, trade, court intrigue, and even technology--I could see a stand alone ck2/pardox game focusing on China and East Asia in general being very successful. Nothing screams the ck2 spirit more than concubines killing each other to rise in rank and place their son on the throne, a scornful power hungry Empress vying for power and eliminating her rivals. An 'accident' during a 'friendly' hunting trip between two imperial princes/brothers. Having a treasonous courtier's whole clan be put to death, including the children. Or rival petty Kings all fighting for the mandate of heaven should the empire disintegrate again like in the Three Kingdoms era. However if they are bent on expanding the map even further to include such regions, maybe a theatre system like the one used in Empire Total War might help?
I agree that a character-driven PDX grand strategy game set in Three Kingdoms era-China would be awesome. :)

But first, we need Rome 2. :p
 
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:
I agree that a character-driven PDX grand strategy game set in Three Kingdoms era-China would be awesome. :)

But first, we need Rome 2. :p

I agree, that'd be bangin'! However since a Rome 2 would cover much of the area geographically already covered in CK2, I feel like an East and South East Asian based game with the spirit of Crusader Kings released first would be better from a marketing stand point 'cause it has that new and exotic zing to it. But yes, a Rome 2 would be really cool!
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
I'd love to see China added to the game, as well as many other regions. But considering the /massive/ size of China and the complexities of its government, military, trade, court intrigue, and even technology--I could see a stand alone ck2/pardox game focusing on China and East Asia in general being very successful. Nothing screams the ck2 spirit more than concubines killing each other to rise in rank and place their son on the throne, a scornful power hungry Empress vying for power and eliminating her rivals. An 'accident' during a 'friendly' hunting trip between two imperial princes/brothers. Having a treasonous courtier's whole clan be put to death, including the children. Or rival petty Kings all fighting for the mandate of heaven should the empire disintegrate again like in the Three Kingdoms era. However if they are bent on expanding the map even further to include such regions, maybe a theatre system like the one used in Empire Total War might help?

Do we need to keep digging up China in dev diary after dev diary? It seems pretty clear by now that the addition of China won't happen this time around.

And to be honest i like the completeness of being able to eventually interact with the entirety of Eurasia, so if i were to ever be even slightly interested in an Eastern focused standalone game they need to dangle a Middle Eastern carrot or a Khazarian and Crimean Steppes carrot in front of my as well to get me hooked. I like the option of attempting expansion in any direction if i feel like it, instead of hitting some arbritrary imaginary map wall
 
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
Do we need to keep digging up China in dev diary after dev diary? It seems pretty clear by now that the addition of China won't happen this time around.

And to be honest i like the completeness of being able to eventually interact with the entirety of Eurasia, so if i were to ever be even slightly interested in an Eastern focused standalone game they need to dangle a Middle Eastern carrot or a Khazarian and Crimean Steppes carrot in front of my as well to get me hooked. I like the option of attempting expansion in any direction if i feel like it, instead of hitting some arbritrary imaginary map wall

There's no need for anyone to do anything but I would imagine that people keep bringing it up because it's something they would like to see in the future and hope to amass enough support for the administrators to take into serious consideration. Personally, I threw my idea out there because I saw it was something that was being kicked around in more than a few posts. Hell if Paradox doesn't want to I'll patent the idea ahaha.

As I said I'd love for more regions to be added to the game as well to add to that 'limitless' feeling like in the EU series, but only if they can be implemented properly. More content expansion or focusing on peoples already part of the map such as West Africans, Arab peoples (yes they're not one homogeneous ethnic group with a Bedouin phenotype despite popular belief ) would be just as welcomed in my opinion.

Can't really say anything about the rest because that's your opinion. But the region is so rich and complex in history, cultures, and diversity--not to mention it's massive size geographically speaking--I would think that there would be enough content to keep a large amount of people interested without throwing in the Middle East. I could see it working it however because of Islamic trade and the influences the regions had on each other.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Here's some answers to some of your questions. Sorry for the delay.

Another great set of features.
I would like to ask though, what determines the range of the Nomads who lost their lands and the Raiding Mercenaries? I mean, if they have no demesne, how is their diplomatic range calculated? Where do they spawn their troops?

They will spawn their troops in their last held province and use the location of their units to determine range.

Im confused on the adventures.

So if an Adventure decides to attack me I can give him lands and make him my vassal??

Yes. Well.. If the adventurer is raiding you, you can. If he decides to declare war on you, it is too late.

Does this mean that people like Rollo of Normandy who is in some random Viking court could just pop up and raid France and then end up landed there?

Also, what are certain conditions that will make the AI land them?

Yes, it is definitly possible! :)

Characters with a seafarer culture or religion will prefer taking coastal provinces, and ambitious characters will prefer a duchy. The AI will tend to land these raiders if it has not done so in a while, but it does require the AI to have provinces it is willing to give away (not in the main duchy etc.).

First, Inland trade! I'm so hyped.

Second, could a dev exactly how do adventurers and dynamic mercs gain troops over time? Do they use the manpower mechanic? Is it based on spawn units? Is it hardcoded, event-driven, or how?

Third?, who can build the trade post in a silk road province? You say one does not need be a republic, but do one need to own the county? Or can actually any lord with the money build there?

How are inland routes defined? Could we make all of Europe a single giant route?

When the raiding adventurer spawn, they will use their population and manpower to raise units, but it will grow bigger with the money it gets through raiding. It is event driven, so it is moddable.

Silk road provinces require you to own the county. If it is coastal a MR can build there too.

So does this mean if I lose my last county as a Germanic then I can become an adventurer?

Does this also mean adventurers are playable now?

What about non-Germanic and non-nomad adventurers?

Adventurers are not playable. And it is only nomads that become adventurers for that reason. Germanic adventurers will spawn from unlanded courtiers. We currently do not have non nomad non Germanic raiding adventurers, but it can easily be modded in.

Can we also have the "Fur Road" between Scandinavia and the Samanid and Byzantine Empires as well as the Abbasid Caliphate? The Russian River System would be great for this. Vast amounts of Fur, Slaves and Silver traveled these routes during the Viking Age and it would be great to see that in game right along side the Silk Road.

Not for now. But you can mod in several trade routes. :)

When a nomad gets settled he turns into a fudal ruler. Is there an option to not do this If you are an adventurer? If not Is it modable?

I was a bit unclear. If the nomad gets nomad lands, the adventurer will stay nomad. And if the adventurer gets tribal lands, the adventurer will be tribal.
 
  • 15
  • 3
Reactions:
They will spawn their troops in their last held province and use the location of their units to determine range.
Thanks for the answer.
Another thing, although less important, will the former province also be counted for when they disband their levies (to see if all troops return "home") and for calculating attrition?
 
That is in no way at all similar to what happened with William. He was given the right to invade by the Pope and someone like him exist would require:
  • A Norse ruler taking land in France
  • Flipping to Norman
  • The last king of England to die heirless
  • Both him and the King of England to be Catholic
  • The Pope to dislike the King of England
  • The Pope to grant this Norman a claim on England

Without major railroading that will happen in 0.0001% of games.
Don't forget the merc stack that apparently didn't need to be paid... The Duke of Normandy could never conquer a Kingdom like England with its levy.
 
  • 2
Reactions: