What’s Next for Bloodlines 2

[AngryHitsuji]

Publishers don't pay their studios to "polish" games. They pay them to get them to a minimum viable standard and get them shipped.

"Delays for polishing" aren't real (excepting a very small number of titles, from mega studios Rockstar and Naughty Dog, and recent Mario games), especially not with a company like Paradox who have proven themselves to care far more about shipping first, fixing later.

Maybe some small aspects will be polished, but we know from decades of experience that almost every game that gets released from any studio of reasonable size, is built upon their workers doing months of 10+ hour a day, 6 or 7 day a week crunch with devs sleeping in their studio, rushing to get the product up to "okay" to avoid being smashed by negative reviews on release.

Paradox need to earn the trust of the consumer after a series of poor releases.

 

[Azar]

The fact that they are doing stuff like adjusting the role of Fabian - if actually meaningfully true - is basically they themselves saying it's "just" that.

To draw a frikken picture: I was talking about this sentence, which I literally quoted out of context:

"We're delaying it to polish" is marketing corpo-speak.

It is not just corpo-speak. It is not merely corpo-speak because polishing literally IS ABOUT WORKING ON THE GAME. To say otherwise would indicate that they do nothing, that it is just "speak", That would be factually false. If you are purposefully misinterpreting me, this conversation is likely to degenerate into personal insults again.

It's also rarely true that development ends neatly with a nice chunk of polishing at the end. That's why we got that absurd crunch at the end of development for so many games in the first place; because stuff gets implemented until the very last minute ^^

You are referring to the general when I am referring to the particular. I am referring to THIS GAME. What other games do, is irrelevant. It doesn't matter how rare it is that games get to polish themselves before launch, if WE ARE IN THAT STAGE RIGHT NOW.

I dont understand why I have to hammer the most basic points home with a sledgehammer.

 

[Pyoro]

You are referring to the general when I am referring to the particular. I am referring to THIS GAME. What other games do, is irrelevant.

Every single video game goes through that same period of time.

... and honestly 95% of your post refers to other games, just generally.

... anyway. I guess you took the "just marketing talk" as "100% only talk" and devs sitting around for 8 months or whatever, and sought to disprove that statement. But seeing as that'd be patently ridiculous it's safe to say that nobody was suggesting that in the first place. If that's where the misunderstanding came from then yeah, okay, sure, of course they are working on the game. That's not the point ^^

 

[Baalzamon85]

After the disaster of Cities Skylines 2/Victoria 3/Imperator launches , the paradox methodology seem to have shifted away from releasing essentially incomplete early access level of games for full price. It's not so much about polishing , it's about actually having a feature complete game before releasing. The amount of features developed in patches for Skylines/Stellaris/Vic3/Imperator in just free updates to finish the game, not counting DLC is astonishing really in the game industry.

This shift needed to happen, the brand was getting a real bad rep and paradox was acting like a indie developer for far too long until customers couldn't tolerate it any longer and it was impacting the shareholders. Anyone who was paying attention to the developer diaries use of concept art instead of gameplay videos knew that the game was far from releasable without serious backlash and I wouldn't call that "polish" to delay the game. Polishing is more like fixing bugs etc and minor things, making sure balance etc things are there, something Blizzard is/was? known for.

 

[RagnarokCzD]

Publishers don't pay their studios to "polish" games. They pay them to get them to a minimum viable standard and get them shipped.

And that is mutualy exclusive ... how exactly?

 

[AngryHitsuji]

And that is mutualy exclusive ... how exactly?

Because being polished isn't that publishers consider the minimal level of quality.

 

[RagnarokCzD]

Because being polished isn't that publishers consider the minimal level of quality.

Or prehaps yours and theirs definitions differ ... ever thought about that?

I mean what even is "polishing" ... if not "puting thing into shape in wich it will be released" ?

 

[A Pink Duck]

Or prehaps yours and theirs definitions differ ... ever thought about that?

I mean what even is "polishing" ... if not "puting thing into shape in wich it will be released" ?

Obviously polish is where they take the code and rub it with a rag coated with some sort of substance until it's shiney.

 

[Necromass]

What exactly is the issue with the protagonist's name? I understood what they said very clearly. I even went out of my way to explain it in this topic and it was not a complex subject. If you don't understand what they're saying here it's because you don't understand tabletop. The questions being answered on Discord are to a highly educated audience who are very familiar with the setting. What you seem to want here would require them to first explain to you how the entirety of Vampire: The Masquerade works so you can understand all of the in-universe terminology that they use. That's not their job. If you want to learn more you can buy the tabletop books or you can read to read in-game codex entries that will help you. You can also ask me any questions about VTM and I will happily answer them for you but don't pretend there isn't an answer. Attacking the devs because you don't understand the setting clearly isn't fair.

Because many people think it sounds stupid even if it is an alias. If the goal is to not draw attention to survive how does picking a name in the same vein as being called khaleesi or zod in the real world work towards that goal. A name like phyres going to raise eyebrows everywhere. And the memes Vam-Phyre Dumpster-Phyre certainly don't help matters.

If TCR had original introduced and marketed phyre as the nomad and clearly explained that she would use the alias phyre in Seattle as you did it might not have gone down so poorly. But that isn't what happened because I doubt they put as much thought into it as you have instead we had as they continue to suggest it's Armenian in origin when all I can find is the name of software or slang for fire. They clearly though it sounded cool and would be popular as Shepard but that didn't happen and you can't tabletop rationalize it away.

I don't really care and expect it to be used sparingly instead I expect a lot of elder, sheriff , outsider or options to refuse to identify ourselves at all. But I hope I have clarified things for you.

 

[Jia Xu]

Because many people think it sounds stupid even if it is an alias. If the goal is to not draw attention to survive how does picking a name in the same vein as being called khaleesi or zod in the real world work towards that goal. A name like phyres going to raise eyebrows everywhere. And the memes Vam-Phyre Dumpster-Phyre certainly don't help matters.

If TCR had original introduced and marketed phyre as the nomad and clearly explained that she would use the alias phyre in Seattle as you did it might not have gone down so poorly. But that isn't what happened because I doubt they put as much thought into it as you have instead we had as they continue to suggest it's Armenian in origin when all I can find is the name of software or slang for fire. They clearly though it sounded cool and would be popular as Shepard but that didn't happen and you can't tabletop rationalize it away.

I don't really care and expect it to be used sparingly instead I expect a lot of elder, sheriff , outsider or options to refuse to identify ourselves at all. But I hope I have clarified things for you.

The writers explicitly said on Discord that the name Phyre was pitched to them as an Armenian name. Phyre also has an Eastern European accent and she was brought to Seattle from thousands of miles away. The idea is to give you an idea of where she comes from. Other cultures have a right to exist.

Even if Phyre was the most American name of all time, it's still not a valid complaint. Complaining about a name is complaining for the sake of complaining. The game will neither be good or bad because of the character's name.

This has the same energy as stomping into a store in the mall over the slightest of slights and demanding to see a manager.

 

[Baalzamon85]

The writers explicitly said on Discord that the name Phyre was pitched to them as an Armenian name. Phyre also has an Eastern European accent and she was brought to Seattle from thousands of miles away. The idea is to give you an idea of where she comes from. Other cultures have a right to exist.

Even if Phyre was the most American name of all time, it's still not a valid complaint. Complaining about a name is complaining for the sake of complaining. The game will neither be good or bad because of the character's name.

This has the same energy as stomping into a store in the mall over the slightest of slights and demanding to see a manager.

90 % of the community thinks the name is bad and cringe regardless of origin, they must all be Karens ofc. You really love to bending yourself into a pretzel defending TCR at all cost with your hot takes huh

 

[Dr. B]

Taking on different identity, changing names, ambiguous gender roles... hey I have seen this movie before!

Bloodlines 2 has stolen the plot from a classic Robin Williams movie: Mrs. Doubtphyre.

 

[Jia Xu]

90 % of the community thinks the name is bad and cringe regardless of origin, they must all be Karens ofc. You really love to bending yourself into a pretzel defending TCR at all cost with your hot takes huh

"90% of the community" doesn't post anything about Bloodlines 2 at all. 90% of any game's community does not post about their game.

By "90% of the community" are you perhaps actually referring to misogynistic incels in YouTube comments who constantly insult women for their names or how they look? If so, they don't matter. They will never matter. The people who spend their entire lives going from video to video posting intellectually bankrupt phrases like "go woke, go broke" will never matter. lol

I'd hesitate to call those people even part of the community. From what I've seen, the people who constantly try to do purity tests on Bloodlines 2 are the ones who know the least about Vampire: The Masquerade, in general. They seem to be tourists who just wander from game to game, complaining about minorities and women.

The only thing I'm defending is the truth. If some people are arguing that the facts don't matter and they're going to hunker down on hating everything the game does, no matter what, then what's their motivation for even following this game? Hate? Revenge?

 

[Phibs]

There is no "community". There's customers (and precious few of those) talking about a prospective product.
By my reckoning most of em think phyre as a name is turbocringe.

 

[Pyoro]

It's obviously projecting, but when talking about Phyre, I'm always thinking about one of the first dev QAs (or whatever it was called), and one of the writers saying Phyre's name and then laughing.

Obviously there's a lot about this game I have issues with, so far as it's been introduced yet, but basically all of it got some sort of explanation, or justification, or I can see where they're coming from, even if I feel it's misguided/wrong/badly executed/whatever. But that choice? Completely baffles me, 100% unnecessary, how on earth was that decided?

... maybe it turns out there's some super ingenious narrative twist attached to it that absolutely needed that name specifically, but if that's not the case then it remains firmly in what the hell territory. ^^

 

[Baalzamon85]

"90% of the community" doesn't post anything about Bloodlines 2 at all. 90% of any game's community does not post about their game.

By "90% of the community" are you perhaps actually referring to misogynistic incels in YouTube comments who constantly insult women for their names or how they look? If so, they don't matter. They will never matter. The people who spend their entire lives going from video to video posting intellectually bankrupt phrases like "go woke, go broke" will never matter. lol

I'd hesitate to call those people even part of the community. From what I've seen, the people who constantly try to do purity tests on Bloodlines 2 are the ones who know the least about Vampire: The Masquerade, in general. They seem to be tourists who just wander from game to game, complaining about minorities and women.

The only thing I'm defending is the truth. If some people are arguing that the facts don't matter and they're going to hunker down on hating everything the game does, no matter what, then what's their motivation for even following this game? Hate? Revenge?

Are you for real? everywhere you look people are complaining about the name.. as far as i can tell the name Phyre has nothing to do with being woke or the culture war. It's just a bad cringe name unless you're a teenage girl that reads twillight novels.

 

[Jia Xu]

Are you for real? everywhere you look people are complaining about the name.. as far as i can tell the name Phyre has nothing to do with being woke or the culture war. It's just a bad cringe name unless you're a teenage girl that reads twillight novels.

Calling Armenian culture something for "teenage girls who read Twilight" is disgusting. This is a perplexing argument to go with when you're trying to convince me you don't have an agenda. lol

But in any case, if you have nothing left to complain about other than the character's name, then Bloodlines 2 must be shaping up to be a very good game, indeed.

 

[Phibs]

I always got mall ninja / early mmo handle vibes from the name.

Didn't even know it was supposed to be armenian. Don't rightly care either.

 

[Baalzamon85]

Calling Armenian culture something for "teenage girls who read Twilight" is disgusting. This is a perplexing argument to go with when you're trying to convince me you don't have an agenda. lol

That's a bizarre take, the name obviously take on a different context when used in a vampire game instead of someone using a long time ago in Armenia. What's the agenda here, explain how complaints about a name have an agenda?

 

[Jia Xu]

That's a bizarre take, the name obviously take on a different context when used in a vampire game instead of someone using a long time ago in Armenia. What's the agenda here, explain how complaints about a name have an agenda?

Someone else's culture is not a meme. You're talking about it like it's just something for you to laugh at.

Maybe you need an Etymology lesson. Many of the words we have in English come from Greek. Many Armenian words also come from Greek. Names that means "fire" are common throughout pretty much all languages. Mocking and ridiculing these people for existing only makes your argument impossible to take seriously. You've been told it's someone else's culture and you keep doubling down on the disrespect.