Who Dares Wins (June, 1944: Hitler killed and NSDAP gone... what's next?)

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Who Dares Wins (June, 1944: Hitler killed and NSDAP gone... what's next? Need input!)

Who Dares Wins


Update: 10/01/2010

Since development diares have become so popular, I'll do the same and publish one.

NOTE: When I started this project, I thought events were enough to handle my ideas, but I've found that they weren't sufficent or it was harder rather than easier to setup a scenario with events, so therefore, this mod has now become a complete scenario.

Okey, here we go:

Hitler assasinated!

In early june, German dictator Adolf Hitler was assasinaited by an officier of his own army.

A new goverment took place with Ludwig Beck as leader of the new, free and more or less democratic Germany who immideatly asked the allied for peace and ask for aid in the struggle against the dictatorship in the east.

The allies accepted the peace offer with heavy demands: land belonging to allied nations such as France, Belgium and Holland should be given back. Nations once occupied by Germany, were to be set free. Sure, there were and are some issues; ex. how to handle the Balkans, the borderprovinces between Germany and France, etc, but as US and UK were the strongest nations in the alliance, those issues were put into the future once the worst threat was neutralised.

Other consequenes of the assasination and the new goverment were that the axis pact Berlin-Tokyo was broken. As a reply to that, Japan offered Soviet Union peace which was accepted.

On the Balkan pennisula, Bulgaria took it chans and break loose from the Axis. Together with its puppetregime in Macedonia, they made invites to form a joint defence pact with Serbia.​

20th June, 1944

Alliances

- Allies
- "Axis" (Germany, Finland, Hungary, Romania, Croatia and Italy)
- Comintern
- Chinese factions
- Japan and its puppets
- Bulgaria, Macedonia and Serbia

Wars

Axis vs. comintern
Japan vs. allies
Japan vs. chinse factions

Neuropa

Country: (HoS / HoG / Ideology ) Short desc.

France: (De Gaulle / De Gaulle / Social conservative) France have returned to Europe, but Germany still controls some parts of western France, which they are very angry at, both at UK & US that let Germany so easy away in the peace talks, but also at Germany who won't return the provinces to its rightful owner.
Belgium: (Karel / Paul-Emilie Janson / Market liberal ) As france, finally back in Europe, but they to are highly dissapointed at Germany, UK and US and lost almost half of their land.
Holland: (Wilhelmina / Johan Albarda / Market liberal) Once forced to flee in exile, the queen is back and have got all her land back. Compared to its neighbours, France and Belgium, the dutch doesn't have any grudge against Germany but only wish aid in the struggle to reclaim the east India from the evil imperialist Japan.
Denmark: (Christian X / Vilhelm Buhl / Social democrat) Even though Denmark enjoyed some kind of "freedom" compared to other nations in the third reich, the message that Hitler was dead was celebrated with great joy. That Kolding was lost once again to Germany, didn't make so much difference. Yet atleast...
Norway: (Hakon VII / Einar Gerhadsen / Social democrat) ...

Balkans

Country: (HoS / HoG / Ideology ) Short desc.

Italy: (Umberto II / de Gasperi / social conservative ) Both Germany and the allies were very eager to have Italy join the axis, but in order to persuade them to accept the invite, they recivied the adriatic coast once more.
Croatia: Still fascist. Allied with Germany. No thoughts about them yet.
Bosnia: ...
Serbia: ...
Bulgaria: ...
Macedonia: ...

War in Asia

Only thing I've done here so far, is to remove Japan and its puppet from the axis and bringed them into their own alliance who is still at war with the chinese factions and the allies, but are at peace with the Soviet union.

Some final words..


I do need help with feedback on these ideas, thoughts on these ideas and of course, more ideas!

But please, remeber the premisses for this mod/scenario:

- Germany is more or less democratic and there is a strong interest from allied alliance leaders UK and USA to be on the good side with Germany. At least as long as Germany is at war with the Soviet Union.
- The greatest enemy against the "free" world is communism (Soviet Union)
- Japan and its puppets will be at war with the allies

& please remember, what I'm currently doing, is setting up the scenario. There'll be plenty of eventchains covering future border conflicts, tensions, lend-lease, pacts, etc. once the basic setup is decided and done.

Ps. If someone would like to try what I've done up to now, just throw me a PM.

 

[unmerged(63886)]

Sharing is caring!

Yugoslavia

The balkans could become a very interesting part of this mod. Once Germany left the balkans, a very weak regime once again declared independce of Yugoslavia and besides their former territory, they'll also recived Albania since the germans didn't have any interest or possibility to retain it under its control.

Now, there are many factions that all strive for independence, freedom... and revenge, like Bosnia and Herzegovina, Croatia, Slovenia, Serbia, Montenegro and Macedonia... and without the strong support of a great nation like Germany had prior to the defeat or USSR (as in OTL), will the weak regime manage to hold together the country?

Can't say I have that great fantasy that I could come up with a backstory for this or how to handle it, so any suggestions and solutions are most welcome. Just directing the interest a bit...

Oh, I forget...

Perhaps you'd like to know how it looks like in the world now? Yes? Well, here we go:

- Germany at peace with the allies
- Allies are now only at war against Japan
- Denmark, Norway, Netherlands, Luxembourg and Greece have joined the allies. (France and Belgium are already in there)
- Finland still wages war against Germany and thus still allied
- Italy currently not at war with anyone
- Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania still fighting against Soviet along sides with Germany

Did I miss something?

 

[unmerged(88283)]

What's with the two different Frances? One mainland, one Africa?

Finland is still at war against Germany? What?

Also, why should Germany pull out of Yugoslavia? I don't believe the Allies ever had any stake in the region, why should they make him leave?

And why doesn't Slovakia exist? It wasn't occupied by the Nazis until August, and the Assassination would take place in June.

 

[unmerged(63886)]

What's with the two different Frances? One mainland, one Africa?

Only one France. French Africa is under allied control, because I hadn't found time to change it. Yet.

Finland is still at war against Germany? What?

My bad, against Soviet Union it should be.

Also, why should Germany pull out of Yugoslavia? I don't believe the Allies ever had any stake in the region, why should they make him leave?

Because that was a part of the agreement. The allies demand for peace were very hard: all nations currently occupied by german forces were to set free and granted freedom if the land wasn't of vital interest against the war versus communism and thus, the poles, the balts, etc are still under german control.

Also, since the new german goverment have no interest other than to save Germany and crush communism, what interest would they still have in that region?

And why doesn't Slovakia exist? It wasn't occupied by the Nazis until August, and the Assassination would take place in June.

Because without the strong support from the nazis, Tito couldn't withheld power and was overthrown by Yugoslavian forces and incorporated into Yugoslavia administration.

Well, as I sad, nothing set in stone and I really do not have a good nor plausible backstory, so feel free to comment/suggest/explain why things are as they are. Or ask question and make me motivate my design decisions...

 

[Dutchemperor]

i thinks germany should own arlon bastogne liege luxembourg metz strasbourg and mulhouse because they owned western europe and that this were there demands for peace. they are still at but when sov wants peace and germany got the same areas as they got in the peace of brest litovisk in 1917 (poland baltic belarus and ukraine) finland gains all the national provinces in russia and kola peninsula. without hitler i dont think that germany need all the area to the ural. and you should make country liberate able of all the area they get in the east so that ger can make puppets there or make it part of germany (can be selected wich you want by events) yugoslavia should by like: slovenia part of germany and national province (south steiermarken) croatia and serbia. italy owns all the coast and albania as national province and are still in the alliance with germany (for the war against soviet) libya sould be still italian and ethipia and area not that british and in trade of italy gains egypt and jordan and palestina. remember germany dont do sign just any agreement for peace vichy france should own some french colonies and have war with france.

i have a picture

after that peace

 

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i thinks germany should own arlon bastogne liege luxembourg metz strasbourg and mulhouse because they owned western europe and that this were there demands for peace. they are still at but when sov wants peace and germany got the same areas as they got in the peace of brest litovisk in 1917 (poland baltic belarus and ukraine). without hitler i dont think that they need all the area to the ural. and you should make country liberate able of all the area they get in the east so that they can make puppets there or make it part of germany (can be selected wich you want by events) tugo slavia should by like: slovenia part of germany and national province (south steiermarken) croatia and serbia. italy owns all the coast and albania as national province and are still in the alliance with germany (for the war against soviet)

But this scenario somehow features a Germany who's in position which they defintley not in june, 1944:

Germany is getting beaten on all front and therefore the chances of winning a three front war is very slim.

The peace with the allies are not on Germanys, but allies, condition and therefore, I hardly see some room for discussions about leaving the proposed french ang belgian provinces under German control.

Italy is another question... I do belive a strong italian goverment should be prefered when the fate of Albania decided, but remeber, Italy is on the losing side and wouldn't and shouldn't be favored before the free, democratic and in allied eyes, good yugoslavian goverment, me think...

Slovenia I'll return to, but Slovakia didn't consist of so many germans, did it? In that case, without nazisupport, they shouldn't be able to stay in power, but been replaced by a more democratic alternative.

But what does Germany (and the "axis") gain from the peace deal when it comes at so high costs?

1. Peace with the allies and therefore only a 1-front war compared to a 3-front war.

2. The allies will swich from aiding Sovietunion to aid the axis in order to save europe from communism...

And regarding peace with soviet union? No way soviet union wants a peace when they are on a crusade to spread communism through Europe and steamrolling through german defence lines in revenge for that they bringed war to mother Russia...

 

[Dutchemperor]

before d day there also was only a one front war (without africa)

and in slovenia lived only in the big cities german but the excuse is that it was part of the austrian empire and the cities have german people and names ljubljana is laibach maribor is marburg. almost the same they used for czech.

and after valkerie claus von stroffenberg was going to sue for peace with the allies (not sov) under his conditions. yugo slovia has to be under german control or puppets states. italy can be divided in the kingdom (allies) and the rep (facist) (rep dont have trento then anymore because they had to give it to germany, south tyrol live many germans ) but italy can also became a partenal autocratic isolomation state.

 

[unmerged(63886)]

before d day there also was only a one front war (without africa)

and in slovenia lived only in the big cities german but the excuse is that it was part of the austrian empire and the cities have german people and names ljubljana is laibach maribor is marburg. almost the same they used for czech.

and after valkerie claus von stroffenberg was going to sue for peace with the allies (not sov) under his conditions. yugo slovia has to be under german control or puppets states. italy can be divided in the kingdom (allies) and the rep (facist) (rep dont have trento then anymore because they had to give it to germany, south tyrol live many germans ) but italy can also became a partenal autocratic isolomation state.

But still, in what way would Germany - ableit free and democratic comparted to before - be in any position at all to negotiate a peace where it get to keeps it belonging through Hitlers expansiont war? Because this is late june, where it really is a three front war. That goes extremtly bad and it certainly looks very bad for Germany... And there are no reason for the semi-democratic regime with Beck in charge to want to keep the conquests of Yugoslavia as I can see?

The ideas for the Italy sounds good and Germany should pay much in order to have Italy left as an ally with their new goverment that don't have Mussolini it it.

 

[Dutchemperor]

late june, tought 1 june and i forgot the front in italy. out of wich scenario do you make it? if it is 44 you have to make the sov army smaller or they will still crush ger. and how about japan, same story or different? look in my first message i have made a picture, how i think.

 

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late june, tought 1 june and i forgot the front in italy. out of wich scenario do you make it? if it is 44 you have to make the sov army smaller or they will still crush ger. and how about japan, same story or different? look in my first message i have made a picture, how i think.

I design the mod this way:

On the 20th of June, Hitler is assasinaited and a new goverment with Ludwig Beck as head of state is formed.

Within a week, player is forced to take steps in order to remove the nazis from society as well as in the military to a high cost (dissent and lowered manpowerpool).

The player then get the option to seek peace with the allies, which I will come back to later on in this post.

How to balance it, so Germany won't get overrunned due to a significant smaller IC base, deserting soliders and lots of unrest within it's borders, will be a tough one, but for now, I see three keypoints how to do it:

- Allies switches side: from supporting comintern, they'll now support the axis with oil, supplies, rares, etc.. Which will allow Germany to focus to the war effort.

- Once situation within Germany is stabilised, the moral will rise and thus give the german army a bit of a boost.

- If Soviet Union crosses the German border, who's indepence will be guaranted by the allies, the option will be for the allies to directly intervete.

But make no misstakes, this scenario will be far much tougher than the original 1944-scenario, which is after some attemps, way to easy for an experienced player...

And on which scenario I based it, it is the 1944-scenario.

And but so I understand you corrently regarding the balkan pennisula:

- Maribor and Ljulbana (IR Slovenia) is retained under German control since
- Croatia still exists (with or without Tito as a leader
- Serbia is independent (but who should be leader of that nation)
- italy gets the coast + Albania
- And Yugoslavia won't exist at all?

So, back to how the peaceagrement looks like. This is my thoughts so far, in order to have a more varied game but this certainly needs lots and lots of input, since it's very cruical for setting up the scenario and I want lots of variety in terms of how each game turns out, so you can play a grand scenario more than once with a different setup...

 

[Beckius92]

This mod looks promising I hope you will be able to finish it (a thing many developers have forgotten about)

 

[unmerged(63886)]

This mod looks promising I hope you will be able to finish it (a thing many developers have forgotten about)

Well, WYSIWYG so you can have the scenario as it is now.

But there's on big reason to why this will be "finished" somehow and not be forgotten:

Im just aming for a bunch of events that simulates a few situations that feels interesting to play/write an AAR about (I'm really fancy SMEP style of a mod) and not a "complete" mod with new tech trees, models, nations etc

Hell, I could finish the mod this night if I know what to script. But as I said earlier, my fantasy ain't the greatest and I want a thoughtthrough setup, so therefore I want to discuss the ideas so that theres a "plausible" explaionation about why A looks like that and why B lookes like that.

Hope you'll play it once "finished"!

 

[Nietzsche]

Well, WYSIWYG so you can have the scenario as it is now.

But there's on big reason to why this will be "finished" somehow and not be forgotten:

Im just aming for a bunch of events that simulates a few situations that feels interesting to play/write an AAR about (I'm really fancy SMEP style of a mod) and not a "complete" mod with new tech trees, models, nations etc

Hell, I could finish the mod this night if I know what to script. But as I said earlier, my fantasy ain't the greatest and I want a thoughtthrough setup, so therefore I want to discuss the ideas so that theres a "plausible" explaionation about why A looks like that and why B lookes like that.

Hope you'll play it once "finished"!

The problem is that the allies would never accept peace with the Reich. Roosevelt wouldn't betray Stalin like this, and the American people wouldn't be willing to see the Germans as 'Good Guys' for quite a while.

 

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The problem is that the allies would never accept peace with the Reich. Roosevelt wouldn't betray Stalin like this, and the American people wouldn't be willing to see the Germans as 'Good Guys' for quite a while.

Firstly, there is no reich. It's fairly democratic Germany. Secondly, the idea of this mod is that the allies see communism as the big threat towards Europe now whene Hitlers gone. Thirdly, this is alternative history, so there ain't nothing impossbile, just more or less plausible.

 

[Beckius92]

Well, WYSIWYG so you can have the scenario as it is now.

But there's on big reason to why this will be "finished" somehow and not be forgotten:

Im just aming for a bunch of events that simulates a few situations that feels interesting to play/write an AAR about (I'm really fancy SMEP style of a mod) and not a "complete" mod with new tech trees, models, nations etc

Hell, I could finish the mod this night if I know what to script. But as I said earlier, my fantasy ain't the greatest and I want a thoughtthrough setup, so therefore I want to discuss the ideas so that theres a "plausible" explaionation about why A looks like that and why B lookes like that.

Hope you'll play it once "finished"!

I'll download it as soon as more events and such stuff are included and maybe it will be a great mod to make an AAR about, time will tell that
I didn't mean to criticise you, I just wanted to be sure about it

 

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Swede_islander @

Of course not. To many good ideas have fallen into darkness throughout the years.

dutchemperor @

How it looks now after some work @ the evening:

Germany: We want an anglo-german peace!
Allies: Well, what do you offer in exchange?
Germany: Whatever it takes!
Allies: Okey then. We're now at peace and you must leave our allied nations territory: France and the BENELUX countries, okey?
Germany: OFC! On our way away!
Allies: And then, set up a free and democratic regime in Italy. And you must give the balkans some kind of democratic rule, but how you wish to do it, it's up to, but it won't be ruled from Berlin. Understand!?
Germany: OFC! Aye aye, sir!

Then there's an event about the Balkan question. What should we do?

- Form Yugoslavia
- Split it up between Italy, our allied Croatia and a newly formed Serbia.

I went for the later and this is the result:

But once again, dutchemperor, would you care to explain why this situation is plausible? I don't question it, but I just want to now and maybe I can use your explaination in the events and in the short PDF I'll write as an introduction before you'll start up a game.

But what if I choose the other option, form Yugoslavia?

Well, then Yugoslavia taka over it all including Albania, but beware, going down this path will cause much problem later on:

The weak central goverment will not be able to hold the different ethnical and political groups together for that long without a major power backing them up, especially when their intresest from Italy to save Balkans from communism and Italy want their land back...

But how another balkan war will be, I have no idea, so please help me brainstorming:

- Bulgaria controlls what's now Macedonia which they've were given by the nazis... Can they keep occupying it?
- If bosnia breaks free, what will Serbia and Croatia think about it?
- More?

EDIT: dutchemperor, until later at least, I'll change it so that Germany keeps Lux, parts of Belgium and the border along the maginotline... That could be an intruging event-chain when france demands territory.

 

[Small]

With the scenario is Resafelt(i forgot the year he Died) still alive because if he is I don’t this the US would have backed a war with the USSR seeing he saw Stalin as a friend so I do not think he would have supported it but I think some of the US military would have seeing patons Idler of Operation unthinkable but I do believe Winston would have supported him seeing the only thing he hated more than the nazis was communists

and what about the Pacific war will Japan be able to use Germany as its middle man in its peace talks like they where planing to do with USSR before they declared war on Japan

and will Germany start backing the nationalist in china agen to fight the communists there and how will communist china far with the war seeing they will not get Manchuria seeing the Russians will not invade it seeing they are still occupied with Germany?

 

[unmerged(63886)]

With the scenario is Resafelt(i forgot the year he Died) still alive because if he is I don’t this the US would have backed a war with the USSR seeing he saw Stalin as a friend so I do not think he would have supported it but I think some of the US military would have seeing patons Idler of Operation unthinkable but I do believe Winston would have supported him seeing the only thing he hated more than the nazis was communists

Don't know yet, but if I have to re-arrange a bit in the US cabinet to make it more plausible, I'll do so. Cabinet will fit scenario history, not vice versa, but I'll definitley need to think about this one. Could any one come up with a plausible reason why USA should enter peace with Germany and the axis (NOTE: Japan, Siam, Manchucho have formed their own alliance in this mod and thus are not a part of axis anymore)

and what about the Pacific war will Japan be able to use Germany as its middle man in its peace talks like they where planing to do with USSR before they declared war on Japan

No. There is nothing that unites Germany and Japan any more. And cutting all ties with them, was one of the first things that the new goverment did. And that is no interest in helping them anyhow now when they're at war with the allies while Germany isn't.

and will Germany start backing the nationalist in china agen to fight the communists there and how will communist china far with the war seeing they will not get Manchuria seeing the Russians will not invade it seeing they are still occupied with Germany?

Please, give me a good story/layout of how it should look like and I'll code it asap! I'm ashamed over how bad my skills regarding Asia is when it comes to nations, warfare, background to conflicts etc. o

Thanks for interest!

 

[Hax]

Interesting

What about Bosnia?

 

[unmerged(63886)]

Interesting

What about Bosnia?

Give me some ideas about what to do with Bosnia, hax!