Registering vs posting permission in Fora

[unmerged(77251)]

Hi,

I happily logged into the Forum this morning, and discovered that I could not post stuff into the victoria 2 forum anymore. Until now, I was only running the demo version - and for a good reason (quad23 crash), even though this reason seems to somehow have been deleted from the demo support thread - a yet it was enough to share my thoughts/experience about V2 with other player, a least until somebody decided I was not allowed anymore to do so, probably because I did not register any copy of V2 yet.

So I ask this person what's the plan here ? I the vicky 1 forum, during the last 2 years, one post in three was from people wanting to know more about the game before buying it; on a sidenote, we (the community) did you (PI) a great amount of free advertising this way. How would this be possible now ? Everyone has to buy and register, and if he/she happen's to not like what he/she bought, he/she get's instantly flamed in the forum.

And than, when one tries to keep track of the small, rampant change, he/she can only notice the progressive loss of posting privileges in the PI fora. Not-so-long ago, one could easily share his view pretty everwhere besides the OT forum. Now you have to buy every new release to do so. This is probably a reason why I never even look at the hoi3 forum, and why I probably never will get hoi3. I understand there is a reason behind this, probably jusified by some good old piracy-paranoia; it just seems pretty odd that now that PI is a much more important company in the video gaming industry, user permission are down, while at the beginning, when it was much more vulnerable to alleged losses due to piracy, the forum was much more democratic; isn't this quite sad ?

It's true that I'm myself a great disbeliever of any form of online registration, since it is basically always used as a commercial mean to separate people (between those who can afford it, and those who can't) on top of been quite questionable in terms of privacy, and it's only with great reluctance that I recently registered a copy of victoria:complete. And let me say that I start to regret that move, when I see where things are going. Right now, PI has always been a model company for me, at least in comparison with the big names of the genre; please keep it this way. Keep the fora open to everywhere, as long as you can afford it. Who knows ? It's not always to most addicted buyer who comes up whith the best ideas ...

 

[Andrelvis]

You can post in the Victoria 2 main forum, you just can't post in the user modifications and possibly other subforums.

 

[Johan]

You can always participate in discussions in main forums.

And its not "paranoia" when you see the statitistic of thievery.

 

[Powerslave]

You can always participate in discussions in main forums.

And its not "paranoia" when you see the statitistic of thievery.

Still I think Paradox doesn't lose money due to the non-existant copy protection. To be honest I think Paradox approach to make it as easy for the paying customers actually make the games sell more copies than if they would have had some copy protection method. I have always bought my games to support the developers and the sole reason I register them here are because I really want the developers to see that I am a paying customer. Everyone should do that.

If a game has some kinda copy protection I always think a second time how much I really want that game. I hate fiddling with these kinda things. Most often I don't even buy the game if it cause me to much work to install/play the game. I own a couple of hundred games (83 on gamersgate alone) and I am starting to get some real problems when I try to reinstall a game where I have either lost the serial or some password code for some stupid microsoft games page.

I remember when Paradox released Diplomacy. I was very much looking forward for it and I had plans to buy it but at that time for the release you couldn't enter the main forum unless you had bought the game which really turned me off. I actually think that hurt the sales for Diplomacy and I don't think Paradox will repeat that mistake again.

 

[Johan]

The sole reason I register them here are because I really want the developers to see that I am a paying customer. Everyone should do that.

Agree. Thats why we have those here.

I personally ignore posts and comments from people who have not registered a game, as the probability of them having bought it is very low.

Its not a DRM or anything, but I've spent way too much time supporting people who hadn't paid for the games, through the years.

 

[Mr Me]

As long as you can post in the main forums there is no cause for complaints imo. Why would you post in the other forums if you don't have the game?

 

[DarthJF]

What's the situation on AAR forums? Before release people who hadn't pre-oredered Vicky2 couldn't post there. Is it open now or still restricted?

I think it would be a shame if people who didn't own the game weren't able to comment different AARs.

 

[unmerged(77251)]

You can always participate in discussions in main forums.

And its not "paranoia" when you see the statitistic of thievery.

You can't start threads. That's really limitating.

Besides, thank you very much for having a look into this thread - even though I barely registered 1 game ... It's very rare to have an open discussion about piracy/registration with developpers, since most of them would either be on the "open source side" or the "corporate buisness side".

Now If I might say so, without starting the endless flame about proprietary code, I would say that - if your statistics are correct, and I KNOW that those which I saw about the situation in France or Germany aren't - don't take the repressive path. I think that given the amount of community involvment your games enjoy, you might really want to consider switching to another buisness model, perhaps donation or subscription based. It would help solving the moral issue about PI outright appropriating modder's job (as stated in the forum rules) and bring your work to a whole new level. Since I'm into the teaching buisness, I can assure you that some of your products, distributed differently, could have a major impact on new form of history education.

Recent examples like Riot games' League of League tend to prove that those alternative buisness model can be quite profitable, since many people - like me - are actually happy to contribute/donate MORE than the game would actually be charged, simply because when you donate, you aren't under the impression your money could have been spent better elsewhere.

Why am I even talking about this ? Because I think it's the buisness model you chose that motivates choices like stripping posting priviledges to non-subscribers, and slowly grows always from an earlier vision. I don't know in which extend this choice I conscient among PI employees, so I'm just wondering if this is what you want: becoming EA games.

 

[Emperor Leo]

It's true that I'm myself a great disbeliever of any form of online registration, since it is basically always used as a commercial mean to separate people (between those who can afford it, and those who can't

It's more a case of seperating those that are honest customers and those which aren't. Besides, what is the problem here? Even if registration does seperate those who can afford a game and those who can't, what is the negative effect on you as a person? Almost every electrical appliance, game, software, DVD, CD, Blu Ray, etc. gives you a choice to register your product. This is a way for companies to reward honest customers, get a clearer idea of which products are selling well, see who their demographics are and provide customers with a better service.

on top of been quite questionable in terms of privacy

What is questionable? All you have to do is type in your game's serial number. Paradox don't ask for your credit card, PIN number, home address, mother's maiden name or the name of your first pet.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to send my details to a Nigerian prince via email.

EDIT:

don't take the repressive path

becoming EA games.

I can't see where Paradox have stated they will be clamping games with limiting DRM. As far as I can see, Paradox are anti-DRM and understand the negative effects. The only problem seems to be that you can't post in the sub-forums. Hardly a big deal.

 

[pingupower]

I was able to gather a lot of info on every game before I bought them on the forums. The fact you can't access forums that are relevant only if you have the game is not very disturbing.

 

[jordarkelf]

Any reason why this thread was also started in OT here? Seems like unneeded duplication to me.

 

[Wildy]

I was able to gather a lot of info on every game before I bought them on the forums. The fact you can't access forums that are relevant only if you have the game is not very disturbing.

That is true.
And the fact is, if a game is very buggy and terrible, people might complain in the main forum instead of the bug report sub-forum, assuming those are off-limits.
It's hard for me to tell which forums are off-limits.

Anyway, registering the game is just a lil step beyond what a user did by registering himself in the forum. And it gives shiny icons!

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Hi,
It's true that I'm myself a great disbeliever of any form of online registration, since it is basically always used as a commercial mean to separate people (between those who can afford it, and those who can't) on top of been quite questionable in terms of privacy, and it's only with great reluctance that I recently registered a copy of victoria:complete. And let me say that I start to regret that move, when I see where things are going. Right now, PI has always been a model company for me, at least in comparison with the big names of the genre; please keep it this way. Keep the fora open to everywhere, as long as you can afford it. Who knows ? It's not always to most addicted buyer who comes up whith the best ideas ...

But if you don't like the registration, why then did you register yourself on this forum in 2007 ? You gave more information to Paradox that time, then when you now register a game.

 

[DarthJF]

People seem to be suggersting subscription fees quite regularly in these discussions. I don't think that would be a good idea. Paradox is a growing company and gets new fans all the time. While existing hc-fans might not care about it (though I would), it would limit the appeal of Paradox to new customers and thus limit the sales of games as well.

 

[unmerged(77251)]

Any reason why this thread was also started in OT here? Seems like unneeded duplication to me.

My apologies. As stated there, I was puzzled about where to post it, so I put a link there. Maybe a mod could merge the threads ?

But if you don't like the registration, why then did you register yourself on this forum in 2007 ? You gave more information to Paradox that time, then when you now register a game.

To preech among the romans, you must join them.

An yet, it's true that something might be wrong in this behaviour. Castellon, can you completely erase me from PI fora ? Is this doable ? Because I might consider it...

 

[unmerged(77251)]

People seem to be suggersting subscription fees quite regularly in these discussions. I don't think that would be a good idea. Paradox is a growing company and gets new fans all the time. While existing hc-fans might not care about it (though I would), it would limit the appeal of Paradox to new customers and thus limit the sales of games as well.

Not if the games come free. Subscrition would be optional.

 

[Castellon]

What's the situation on AAR forums? Before release people who hadn't pre-oredered Vicky2 couldn't post there. Is it open now or still restricted?

I think it would be a shame if people who didn't own the game weren't able to comment different AARs.

Actually I opened it up a couple of days before release.
You have to be registered to start a thread (How could you write an AAR if you do not own the game) but anyone can participate in AAR threads.

And about registering your game (I assure you it is not used for marketing at all)

 

[unmerged(77251)]

Actually I opened it up a couple of days before release.
You have to be registered to start a thread (How could you write an AAR if you do not own the game) but anyone can participate in AAR threads.

And about registering your game (I assure you it is not used for marketing at all)

From the V2 manual that comes with the demo:

One of the finest things available on the Paradox Forums is the AAR section, where budding authors and creative minds, or even just those who had an interesting experience in a game they’d like to tell others about – write accounts of their games in what we call “After Action Reports.” Some gamers tell the story straight – “I did this, and my neighbors did that, and so I did that back to them...” Others tell it as a history textbook might, simply following the alternate history the game provides. Others illustrate their stories with fictional accounts of people who exist within their game-based empires. Sometimes, it’s hard to tell there’s even a game behind the story, when the authors delve deeply into their dramatic accounts.


According to the last part, why would these writers needs any games ?

 

[SolSara]

It's called "inspiration".

 

[ssj18vegeta]

you might really want to consider switching to another buisness model, perhaps donation or subscription based.

I really wouldn't want a subscriptions based model for paradox games. The ability to donate to paradox however would be a really good idea. I'm sure a lot of people on these forums would donate 5 euro's or more if it would net them a shiny forum icon (platinum platipus anyone?).