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Can you also make a list of heads of state in each country?

Also, thanks for using some of my plans, or at least considering it. As a Filipino-American, I knew about Sabah and the fact that it was rented to the British (and still is), I put those territories I mentioned because it just realizes Jose Rizal's dream of bringing together the peoples of the Malay Archipelago, seen as artificially divided by the Spaniards, Americans, British, Dutch, and Portuguese.
 
-Independence for Don-Kubania, TransCaucasia, Kalmykia, Chechnya, Circassia, and Dagestan
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I would argue against this idea. Such a set up would look hideous on the map, and could run the risk of causing dangerous revanchism within a post war Russia. You would not want a new Russian government to fall to some hitler type demagogue over issues of territorial claims. It would make better sense to keep those areas within a new Russian republic.

Besides, it would be a huge double standard. why lump african states together, which are made up of tons of little ethnicities, but give every little ethnic group in the caucuses their own country?

In the caucuses, i would argue for combining Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan in some kind of federation, and give the rest to a post war Russia.
 
Kaiser_Mobius said:
I would argue against this idea. Such a set up would look hideous on the map, and could run the risk of causing dangerous revanchism within a post war Russia. You would not want a new Russian government to fall to some hitler type demagogue over issues of territorial claims. It would make better sense to keep those areas within a new Russian republic.

Besides, it would be a huge double standard. why lump african states together, which are made up of tons of little ethnicities, but give every little ethnic group in the caucuses their own country?

In the caucuses, i would argue for combining Georgia, Armenia, and Azerbaijan in some kind of federation, and give the rest to a post war Russia.
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I didn't mean independence for each one of those, just that they wouldn't be included in Russia.
Places with a Russian majority will probably remain in Russia. So, Crimea will remain Russian, for example. Were any of those Caucasian territories listed majority Russian?
 
Folks remember we're in an alternate history. So the Turkish Pogrom didn't happen and Soviet occupation actually help bury alot of Irish/British conflict.

Let's remember some important facts:

1: The whole of the Old World has been under the Soviet hell for at least a decade or two, maps of who lived where in our OTL are no longer accurate as a complete different series of events has occurred. The Istanbul Pogrom did not happen here, nor did alot of other things that removed the Greek population from Turkey.

2: The amount of casualties just from the war (never mind the cost of the Soviet conquest or Soviet rule) is mind boggling. There won't be any conflicts for another 10 to 15 years because to many people have died. There are likely entire Ethnic groups that have disappeared (God help the Gypsies, they didn't do well under communist rule in our timeline, in this one? I don't wanna think about it.) or will disappear simply because there aren't members left to continue as a separate group. Hell rebuilding is likely to keep everyone focused until the late 1960s. Let me point out according to estimates the world did not fully recover trade wise or economically from the 2 world wars we had until the 1990s.

3: Dislocation. How many people did the Soviets relocate? How many were forced to flee the fighting? How many fled to behind American lines?

In short we cannot use modern or even historical maps of population distribution as anything more then a guide line of what we started with, this timeline is to far removed from ours.

Sidenote: You realize that this timeline's population might be anywhere to a 1/2 to a 1/3rd of ours in 1949?
 
So, has anyone seen Danielshannon yet?
 
Sorry gang. School and work has been eating up my free time.

I think that I'll need some more help divvying up the world. Would any of you care to rp various figures at the conference and help me decide the fate of the world?

I think the first order of business will be Europe (besides Russia). I'll post a little update tomorrow about the various occupied territories as well as some options and let you guys debate the issue. :)
 
I'll bite. I think that divvying up Europe is going to get easier once we try to model the population flows from Soviet manipulation.
 
Anyone else think the Gypsy's deserve a homeland? I've always thought they should have been given one after WW 2 but considering in this timeline the Soviets persecution of Gypsy's I think its a idea that should be reconsidered.

EDIT: For example the Soviets often used Gypsys as subjects when they where testing the level of human endurance. Like the story of a family of Gypsys being so dehydrated that they would lick the water and bleach off the floor after it had been cleaned.
 
Ciryandor said:
I'll bite. I think that divvying up Europe is going to get easier once we try to model the population flows from Soviet manipulation.
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I agree. :)

Midge said:
Anyone else think the Gypsy's deserve a homeland? I've always thought they should have been given one after WW 2 but considering in this timeline the Soviets persecution of Gypsy's I think its a idea that should be reconsidered.

EDIT: For example the Soviets often used Gypsys as subjects when they where testing the level of human endurance. Like the story of a family of Gypsys being so dehydrated that they would lick the water and bleach off the floor after it had been cleaned.
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That is a good idea, but what would be the borders of a hypothetical a gypsy homeland?
 
The Truman administration’s highest priorities for the conference were to secure independence for all of Europe’s former colonies and to promote global economic integration. These would be contentious issues, especially with the British and Japanese, who wished to keep their colonies. If that was impossible, then they would want to, at the very least, maintain some sort of special relationship with their former colonies. Both the British proposal of an “Imperial Preference system” and the Japanese’s support for a so-called “East Asian Co-prosperity sphere” were anathema to American officials. Since Truman didn’t want to start the conference on such a contentious issue he decided to focus first on the comparatively easier dilemma of drawing political boundaries for post war Europe.

Of all of the territory in Europe, Scandinavia seemed the easiest place to start. That was one region where it was entirely possible to merely return to the pre war borders. There were only two problems with this. The first was that the populations of the territories had been severely reduced by the deprivations of war and a drastic decline in birthrates under Soviet rule. The preliminary census results for the Scandinavian countries were as follows:

Denmark: 1,922,156
Norway: 1,578,475
Sweden: 2,570,000
Finland: 923,903
Iceland: 85,000
Greenland: 20,000

Would these states be viable with such tiny populations? This was a major concern for the Americans, who felt that some sort of Scandinavian union might be more viable than a handful of devastated states.

The other issue was the strategic importance of Greenland. The Americans saw Greenland as essential to their own security and were deeply interested in purchasing the island outright from whoever they could convince to sell it. Barring that, Truman hoped to secure a 99 year lease on the island’s airfields and naval bases. Would a unified Scandinavia be more likely to acquiesce to American desires than a fragile Denmark?

Statesmen, Scandinavia's future is in your hands.
 
I would suggest a area in the Balkans for the Roma homeland. Maybe part of Romania or Hungary? The Romas orignally came from the Kashmir valley but this could be problamatic because its so populated already. Some suggest Saudi Arabia as a homeland but that puts them in charge of Mecca. Or you could go with the Siberia route.

The problem is that the Roma people don't have a homeland like the jews they want to return to. They belive that staying in one place coruppts and drains the soul. However this inevitably means that they get persucuted everywhere they go. I would suggest a one province or two province state in Hungary or Indian/Pakistan which every Roma has the option of returning to. If this is set up then you should make sure that the people who go to this homeland have a decent standerd of living and that its not basically a enlarged concentration camp.
 
A united Scandinavia would suffice, but leave Finland, Aland, Lappland, and Greenland as independent states.
 
Really long time lurker, I post here for the first time. I suggest to unite all of Scandinavia except for Finland, since Danish, Norvegian and Icelandic are more dialects than different languages while Swedish is quite mutual intelligibile with them, so this solution shouldn't create any linguistic problem. Aland (and maybe Vaasa and Turku) could be given to Scandinavia, according to this link. If you think Finland will become too small, you can still unite it with Estonia (both Ugro-Finnic countries) and/or give Karelia to it.
I don't think the US will ever need Greenland as a base, it's still too far from Europe to give them much more strategical importance...
 
I'm gonna argue for the map I sent you Daniel. Norway, Denmark and Iceland merged together would provide a medium level state with a population near to what modern Norway has now. Meanwhile merging Sweden back together with Finland gives a comparable state.

Historical justification is has follows: Norway used to be part of Denmark and Iceland was ruled from Copenhagen until very recently (i.e the Soviet conquest in this timeland). Sweden on the other hand as a tradition of war and conflict with Denmark. Sweden and Finland were once part of the same nation until Sweden lost a war with Russia and the Russian empire gobbled Finland up. So why not simply restore Finland (with the Karelian lands attached) to Sweden? Traditionally speaking most of the upper class of Finland is Swedish to begin with anyways (yes it is not like that now, but things change over decades and centuries).

The two states in conjunction with Britian should be able to keep Germany from throwing it's weight around to much, which frankly is a concern given how big and powerful you've made Germany.
 
Before we go much further here, I'm going to a post a list of delegates to the conference. If you want to take on the role of one of these fine fellows just let me know. Also you may come up with a person for national movement for country x and bring up your proposals.

The Big 5
Harry S. Truman President USA (Me)
Gordon Graydon Conservative PM of Canada (Kaiser_Mobius)
Winston Churchill PM of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (Midge)
Field Marshall Erwin Rommel President of Germany (Trekaddict)
Field Marshall Henri Giraud Provisional President of the French Republic

European Delegates
Juan III the King of Iberia (ColossusCrusher)
Alcide De Gasperi Prime Minister of the Republic of Italy
Willem Schermerhorn Prime Minister of the Netherlands


American Delegates
Air Marshal Eduardo Gomes Provisional President of Brazil
Field Marshall Juan Peron Provisional President of Argentina
Alesso Melecio Foreign Minister of Mexico
León Cortés Castro President of the United States of Central America
Don Aurelio Mosquera Narváez Prime Minister of Gran Colombia
Sir Arthur Richards Prime Minister of the West indies Federation

British Empire Delegates
Sir Earle Page Prime Minister of Australia (Lord of Time)
Adam Hamilton PM of New Zealand
Daniel François Malan special representative for Afrikaner (Midge?)
Pixley ka Isaka Seme founder of the African National Congress
General Governor Maulana Azad and Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru of India
Don Stephen Senanayake Prime Minister of Ceylon

Asian Delegates
General Kazushige Ugaki provisional Prime minister of Japan
Wenceslao Quinito Vinzons foreign Minister of the Republic of the Philippines (hoi2geek)
Soong Tzu-wen leader of the Chinese National Council
Syngman Rhee leader of the Korean National Council (Ciryandor)

Others
As of yet unnamed Polish advocate - J.J.Jameson
 
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I'll gladly RP Rommel, though give me a day or two to get rid of this infection I have at the moment, kay?
 
I am honored to RP Vinzons at the peace talks.

Also present should be . . .
Eamon de Valera (Representative to the Irish government-in-exile)
 
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I'll do Juan III, although a lack of Juan Carlos I makes me sad. :( :D
 
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