Pagan revolters start off with same SUPER-high-tech as Mother Country

[unmerged(4868)]

Like the subject title says: Pagan revolters start off with same SUPER-high-tech as Mother Country

This annoys me to no end. Let's say that Portugal recently conquered/annexed the African pagan nation of Zimbabwe. And then Portugal spirals into some internal civil war, and soon enough the "conquered natives" of Zimbabwe find the opportunity to declare themselves a free nation once again, they free themselves from the oppression of the evil Portuguese Overlords.

And then, the resurrected nation of Zimbabwe starts off with.... the same tech levels as Portugal??? Why?! Does this even remotely make any historical sense?

I could live with the idea of a recently-born revolter-nation starting off with SLIGHTLY lower tech levels than its Mother Country, I'm OK with that. After all, the native peoples eventually learned the same enlightened ideas and ways of life as their colonial masters. But inheriting the same exact tech levels as the (superpower colonial) mother country... this always rubbed me the wrong way (this goes way back to EU2, maybe EU1)

Is this hard-coded into the game, or can something (theoretically) be done about it?

 

[Titan79]

Although this system is good for making player's life a bit tougher, I'm with you on this one. It annoys me too since it makes little or no sense at all.

I'd rather suggest to adjust rebel tech level to something like 50-60% of the player's one.

 

[unmerged(82381)]

It would be good to tie it into tech groups. After all, people would be annoyed if Brittany breaks away from Portugal and has its tech levels halved.

 

[Toio]

this is not the answer because, as an example, when the dutch revolt and declare independence from spain, what you desire will mean an inferior army who will have zero chance of survival against the spanish armies.
This applies to all nations.

Answer is somewhere else.

I also think the auto dow on independence should be from the nation and not the nearly created one.

 

[unmerged(4868)]

I'd rather suggest to adjust rebel tech level to something like 50-60% of the player's one.

Or it could be a calculated or die-rolled number, like:

Zimbabwe revolts from Portugal:

Infrastructure Level:
50% chance = Same as Mother Country
25% chance = Mother Country TL x 80% (rounded up)
25% chance = Mother Country TL x 60% (rounded up)

Trade Level:
50% chance = Same as Mother Country
25% chance = Mother Country TL x 80% (rounded up)
25% chance = Mother Country TL x 60% (rounded up)

Land (Military) Level:
50% chance = Same as Mother Country
25% chance = Mother Country TL x 80% (rounded up)
25% chance = Mother Country TL x 60% (rounded up)

Naval (Military) Level:
50% chance = Same as Mother Country
25% chance = Mother Country TL x 80% (rounded up)
25% chance = Mother Country TL x 60% (rounded up)

 

[Samorim]

It would be good to tie it into tech groups. After all, people would be annoyed if Brittany breaks away from Portugal and has its tech levels halved.

I think this would be better too. Randomizing it is not the best option really. That way we could come up with the absurd outcome of Zimbabwe revolting with higher tech levels than Britanny. That's not better than what we have now, I think it's worse even. European nations (or latin group nations) had much more access to the most recent technological innovations, not only from it's former overlord but other european countries, whereas Zimbabwe had only the first.

 

[Monkii-sama]

Latin tech group gets 95% of tech levels
Muslim gets 75% of tech levels and so on and so forth.

 

[unmerged(4868)]

Latin tech group gets 95% of tech levels
Muslim gets 75% of tech levels and so on and so forth.

I'm starting to like the idea that you guys propose, that it could be based on TechGroups (latin, muslim, exotic, etc).

If the Mother Country and Revolter nation belonged to the same tech group (e.g. both are muslims), then the Revolter nation should NOT have any penalty when it appears on the map. However, if the Revolter nation is Muslim (tech group, not actual state religion) and the Mother Country was a Latin tech group (e.g. possibly a European Major Power), then the Revolter *should* be penalized to some extent. And so forth....

 

[Samorim]

Even adding religion to the equation could be a nice idea also. Different religion = harder times to access tech of the overlord. Makes sense for me. Not so much contact with each other, I guess.

 

[Monkii-sama]

I'm starting to like the idea that you guys propose, that it could be based on TechGroups (latin, muslim, exotic, etc).

If the Mother Country and Revolter nation belonged to the same tech group (e.g. both are muslims), then the Revolter nation should NOT have any penalty when it appears on the map. However, if the Revolter nation is Muslim (tech group, not actual state religion) and the Mother Country was a Latin tech group (e.g. possibly a European Major Power), then the Revolter *should* be penalized to some extent. And so forth....

Yeah it would be strange that the Mameluks somehow end up 25% lower in tech from OE and then Tunisia with 25% less when revolting from Mameluks. It could get strange real fast.

 

[Therion]

Until this feature is implemented, the best way to solve is by not allowing pagans to revolt from the Europeans that are more likely to annex them. So in revolt.txt you'd include "no = {POR, SPA, ENG, FRA, etc.}" under ZIM's tag for instance.