Synthetic Plants in AoD + IC

[Uriah]

Playing IC over Aod and including Revision: I am a little confused. The Revision notes included "Added Synthetic plants in the map (AoD players)".


I have started a brand new game as Germany 1933 and can see coal to gas deductions in resources (but no oil to Rare Materials) and can see the Synthetic Oil and Materials Plants sliders showing a certain level of output.

But I can't find any synthetic plants on the map, I can't see how to build any nor can I see any mention in the tech tree of a tech that will allow me to build them.

Is the Revision change just a "speadsheet" change that doesn't actually appear inthe game?

Or am I missing something?

Just to be clear: I am not particularly concerned (though I like having the two types of synthetic plants). I just want to be clear what is the correct situation: Does IC have synthetic plants or not? And if yes, what am I doing wrong or am I overlooking?

(I have played Mod 34 but it was long time ago (so on HOI2 vanilla) and I can't remember if it used synthetic plants. Would be odd if an AoD version was developed that didn't incorporate the only real production change).

 

[datachild]

If you research up to refined fuel there are 2 technologies that will enable you to build these plants (can't remember there names, just look at the description). Germany can't build these plants from the start of a 1933 scenario. To find them on the map I would use the statistic menus, if they are noted there. If not you have to browse through every province yourself, since they are not marked on the map.
EDIT: I found "oil plants" in Nürenberg and Stuttgart and a synthetic plan in Magdeburg in the 1936 scenario. Chemical industry enables you to build the former, Rare Material (I) the later.

 

[tigeriii]

You are correct Datachild, all 3 plants are there in those provinces and I started a 1933 game and it took some time to find them but you are correct in the locations, same for 1933 scenario. On the down side I have been finding little use to build any plants and I am up to May 1938 as my resources with all the events that happen have given me some nice stockpiles, plus all the Industrial Techs add much to your resource holdings.

 

[Uriah]

Thank you both: as I suspected, the problem was with me, not with the game. (But I did use the stats tables, aware that I was probably missing provinces). And once I know where to look it was easy to find the techs

 

[Kelben]

This feature is still broken. As France one energy to oil plant if run at 100% capacity (about 3. something in 33) consume 600+ energy.

 

[Uriah]

I haven't played very far but I assumed that the ridiculously high consumption in 1933 relected the poor return until improved technology was developed. You do not run your economy on a unversity scale prototype. If it is still the case in 1940 when I have researched a lot of relevant techs then I will be annoyed, but I hope that is not the case.

 

[Kelben]

Listen, this feature is broken ok? It needs to be fixed. If in 33 a energy plant consumes 650 energy to run, it is not a number of sciences that will bring it down to the intended AoD level.

 

[eleven_west]

The feature is not broken because of the amount of energy consumption, but because the AI cannot react to the sharp decline in energy by ie reducing the sliders/assiging less energy to the conversion process. So about 15 days into the game, they have ran out of energy. They eventually try to meet the huge energy demands by trade, but to the detriment of their other raw materials. Finally they end up with a 0 balance and no stockpiles and you get ie USSR having 3 IC and not producing enough supplies to keep the army supplied, let alone build anything. So the game kinda disintegrates

 

[quintelosky]

The feature is not broken because of the amount of energy consumption, but because the AI cannot react to the sharp decline in energy by ie reducing the sliders/assiging less energy to the conversion process. So about 15 days into the game, they have ran out of energy. They eventually try to meet the huge energy demands by trade, but to the detriment of their other raw materials. Finally they end up with a 0 balance and no stockpiles and you get ie USSR having 3 IC and not producing enough supplies to keep the army supplied, let alone build anything. So the game kinda disintegrates

For that reason, I didn't add the synt. plants. But many players asked about the plants, and I added the synt plants in the first revision (knowing the error, but with that, the player can view the error). Some changes in Iron Cross (that the players think is a bug) are deliberately to fix bugs or errors, but the players don't know that

AoD don't have any AI command (or possibility in .ai file) to control sliders conversion synt. plants

 

[tigeriii]

This is why I am perfectly fine without either type plant till 1936. I play with AoD 1.04 and to me makes no sense to start 1933 or 34 with plants when the tech tree does not even allow you to build them.

Some people that have AoD need to remember if you play earlier, should you have plants without the techs being researched? Think about it. Its not gonna a kill you to not that them. In fact as Germany I turned all mine off and still have them off even with the techs researched because I did enough "manaul" trades to get what I needed before war and now that I am at war I will still have enough.

Then again thats just how I play. If I need those extra oil drops later or rare, I still can turn them on without the penalty.

 

[Uriah]

I have checked Russia in my current Germany 1933 game: they are using both coal to oil and oil to RM and it is killing their IC. I suppose the same would true for France, Japan etc

If I use the AOD "Revision", does this mean that when I start I should load as every other major power and set all the sliders to "Nil"?

I don't really mind doing this but it would have been helpful to have been told of the impact of the "Revision": without knowing this I could have played until 1939 and then wondered why nobody else has any troops.

 

[tigeriii]

After day one, some AoD players asked "Where are my plants? AoD had plants at start" They also forgot that AoD started in 1936 the tech was available with the AoD Tech Tree as it is, just had to do upgrades in AoD tech to get conversion process better with both, frankly never used the plants was waste of time building not much value when you can gain more from trade or taking it from another country. <(My opinion though)

Unless there is a place to turn off the plant feature for the AI then ya manual process would seem to be the way to go. Unless that is not viable at all because the AI will revert back to full capacity once you save the game and go back to your country you are playing. Not sure here but I for one would like to see the plants disappear all together till you have the tech to build them. Kind of un historical really un historical to have a plant built yet you have no dam idea how to use it, run it or maintain it. Eh thats my jist on this and yes it is making the AI majors lose time building up troops and what not for war, so it is causing issues. Just wish there was a happy medium for this topic but people want more and this is the result of wanting more.

 

[Kelben]

No matter what are the resources availability, a plant should not consume 800 energy to run even in 33. Your excuses begin to seriously get on my nerves. I am sorry but you are being stupid on this issue up to the devs level. And tigerii, can you please stop posting in every topics your stupid inputs? Thx!

 

[tigeriii]

No matter what are the resources availability, a plant should not consume 800 energy to run even in 33. Your excuses begin to seriously get on my nerves. I am sorry but you are being stupid on this issue up to the devs level. And tigerii, can you please stop posting in every topics your stupid inputs? Thx!

LOL you are the man! So sorry, you cant think of more then 2 lines of constructive, mature, resonable thoughts then me. At least my remarks are honest and not full of just winded negativism like some.

800 energy is because its 1933 and you have no techs to decrease it. Makes sense to me because as DEV said they didnt put it in for a reason. Well I voiced my opinion on "reasonable" data for which I think is valid, at least I didnt whine about not having them which is the reason now everyone is complaining. Grow up Kelben, read, learn and understand life is not just about complaints or displeasure there is good but you neglect to see it.

Besides its a forum and I can post however I like and I have been helping others with issues or explaining things unlike you, so please just go back to your game of "Sorry" this is much to complicated for you to comprehend at this time.

 

[Uriah]

No matter what are the resources availability, a plant should not consume 800 energy to run even in 33. Your excuses begin to seriously get on my nerves. I am sorry but you are being stupid on this issue up to the devs level. And tigerii, can you please stop posting in every topics your stupid inputs? Thx!

If a process is still in its infancy, any attempt to scale up is economically crippling. I have absolutely no problem with it being unviable in 1933, and can't see what you are complaining about. In 1933 it was possible to convert coal to an oil substitute, just not on an economic scale. It could be done in a lab, but to build a factory duplicating the bench-top process would cost too much.

Are you aware of the phrase "constructive criticism"? These forums work much better when it is used.

Reverting to the real issue (which is NOT that one should be able to use conversion in 1933).

I have found that even if you manually turn off the plants of other countries, the AI turns them back on. What is worse, none of the other majors is researching techs that would improve the conversion rate. As far as I am concerned, this makes playing with Revision 1 NWW. I enjoy the possibility (and reality) of using conversion plants, but not at the cost of playability.

So until Revision 1 is patched I would have to play with vanilla IC, which is a pity because of the issue of the German GDE that others have complained about, which was also fixed in Revision 1. (Can anyone expalin to me what GDE stands for? I can see the impact, just don't know what it is the acronym for).

As I see it, if I want to play Germany I can play vanilla and be crushed by Poland in 1939 because of the GDE issue, or I can play Revision 1 and have a walkover because no-one else has built anything.

While I am always prepared to do a bit of juggling and file editing with Paradox and related games, I can't think of a way to solve these two game breakers. If anyone can, please let me know.

 

[unmerged(215670)]

So seeing how the all wise Devs admittedly released a bug in their latest patch that makes the game unplayable just to basically give a big middle finger to the few fans their expansion still has... Does any1 have a fix for the bug? Like removing the conversion or something..

 

[tigeriii]

@Uriah: Been checking the AI files for major countries I have been brushing up on my Spanish in the process too and been going to line after line of code, but have not found the code or switch that turns off the "Plants" all together, but I still have more files to look through. If I find something I will post it. Though interesting is to see how AoD started "Basic Refining" in 1936 for Oil conversions and like you agreed with me on the fact its "viable" to take them out prior to 1933, I fail to see how others (not you) dont understand this point or fact. All I have seen is how much Energy is lost and its not right in 1933, 1936- 1933= 3 years? Hmm, wonder if my plant will work in 1933 when 1936 I will research the basic refining for it, let me turn it on, yep works like a charm, I just blew 800 energy on my oil conversion! YAY.

Thanks Uriah, at least some people have something on their shoulders besides a mouth. Okay off to check the AI files and hope I find it.

 

[kalkkuna]

Hope to see fixed this soon.

 

[tigeriii]

There is a temp fix I made for this conversion, its in thread:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?504078-No-More-Oil-Material-Plants-Fix!

Shib unloaded a rar for those "not so savvy computer types" I had no where to upload the file so Shib helped. Enjoy for now looks like devs will put a permanent fix or let the plants be active in 1933 but change conversion, I dont know. Also tested fact that you can build both plants later once you have done the research and they work as intended with the technology level you have for it. Well as far as I can see they do.

Enjoy.

 

[Uriah]

There is a temp fix I made for this conversion, its in thread:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?504078-No-More-Oil-Material-Plants-Fix!

Shib unloaded a rar for those "not so savvy computer types" I had no where to upload the file so Shib helped. Enjoy for now looks like devs will put a permanent fix or let the plants be active in 1933 but change conversion, I dont know. Also tested fact that you can build both plants later once you have done the research and they work as intended with the technology level you have for it. Well as far as I can see they do.

Enjoy.

Thanks tigeriii: have restarted afer deleting the relevant portion and seems to be working OK. This is how the forum is supposed to work - people identifying problems or asking questions and helping each other out.

On a related point, I have seen some fairly nasty comments about the developers. Now, I don't like to encourage such posts (and the normal response anyway is to be labelled a "fan-boi" - do they realise how old I am?) but I have to say somethinng here.

This "add-on" cost me about A$10. To put it in perspective, that is about 2 beers or 2 coffees. If I were in the USA, it is what I would tip after a decent meal. By no means is it a lot of money in any developed country. So I don't expect a "Rolls-Royce" product. I am sure it comes nowhere near paying for the thousands of hours that have gone into developing this game, and I am also sure that nobody is getting rich out of it.

If I had paid A$90 (fairly normal price for a computer game here) I would feel duped if there were simple problems with the product. For that price the developer can pay for at least some checking. But with something like this I pretty much expect to have to do some work myself. (Even if the developers put out patches to fix urgent problems, which seems to be the case here)

To my mind, it is a bit like comparing a "bed and breakfast" to a hotel. You use different standards to compare, even though the product (accomodation) could be seen to be the same.

I think the delevopers of these mods shoud be encouraged. Wiithout them I would have missed hundreds of hours of enjoyment. (And a few hours of frustration). So give them a break and try to be positive about these things. After all, I bought this with my eyes wide open - didn't you?

Please do not see this as an invitation to start a flame war. I just want people to cool down, take a step back and think about this reasonably.

PS I have boxes of computer games for which I paid $100 which are complete rubbish, even if technically OK, and which I will never play. Now there is a case for complaining. I would rahter have an enjoyable game with a few fixable problems than a dog that works perfectly.