Alternate names for provinces

[Drachenfire]

I don’t know if it is possible, I hope so, but it would be nice if a province could change names depending on the culture of the ruler and the culture of the province, which would demonstrate how the culture of the province may change over time.

For instance, pre-Norman conquest of Wales the historic region of Dyfed was part of the Principality of Deheubarth in Wales. However, after the Normans conqured Dyfed from the Welsh they established their castles and other fortifications, and renamed the district Pembroke.

With my idea, I’d like to see this region have two names. I haven’t developed the matrix yet, but something that may take into account the culture of the region, the culture of the ruler, and the liege of the ruler (whether or not it is the king of Wales or the king of England).


Does this make sence?


I know in Civilization there is a mechanism whereby when a city changes culture and owners it changes name depending.

 

[Calgacus]

Not sure this is a priority. In most cases incomers don't "change" the name of a province anyway, they just have their own name which becomes more prominent in in modern historiography. So the English call Dyfed "the county of Pembroke" ... doesn't mean the Welsh do, or, say, the Polish would if they conquered it. I'd be happy for provinces to be called in the name of the culture prominent for most of the game period or, if uncertain, at the beginning.

This is probably what they will try to do, though Scotland of course will be the usual exception.

I know in Civilization there is a mechanism whereby when a city changes culture and owners it changes name depending.

Only in one particular mod, not in the actual game.

 

[unmerged(75409)]

Vic2 and EU3 have mechanisms for renaming of provinces. So it's pretty clear (to me) that CK2 should easily be able to do this, too.

The colonisation in eastern Europe is also a hot area for this... German, Polish, Lithuanian, Russian etc place names taking over after the establishment of new rulers... East Prussia f.ex. was only colonized in the 12th century and place names should change at some point. Would be nice if the territorial titles would then also change: Then we don't have to have a high chief of Marienburg f.ex.

 

[TempestDK]

I don't think this is feasable at all ... think of the work that have to be put into it. Every province will have to have names for each possible culture in the game ... and who knows what the Mongols, Danes, English or Egyptians would call Danzig??

 

[ZhugeKongming]

I don't think this is feasable at all ... think of the work that have to be put into it. Every province will have to have names for each possible culture in the game

... No they won't? Where are you getting this? Nobody in the thread made this suggestion.

 

[Woody Man]

Drachenfire suggested that each province has two names, basically limiting it to two choices with regards to cultural influence. So, as long as either only the Welsh or English rule say Wales, then the system works fine, go a little out of history, and the whole plan becomes pointless. It becomes even more pointless thanks to the ability to simply rename provinces while playing the clauswitz engine.

This entire suggestion is basically built around Drachenfire's obsession with Wales, and doesn't really take into account any other European precedent.

 

[ZhugeKongming]

I would hope we wouldn't have a situation where non-English, non-Welsh rulers regularly take power in Wales. Maybe it's unsatisfying to not have a list of Polish place names for Wales, but the real immersion killer there is having Polish rulers in the first place.

e: And who cares if Drachenfire is obsessed with Wales? His suggestion would work equally well in any number of areas, e.g. Iberia, pre-Conquest England, Anatolia, etc.

 

[Woody Man]

I would hope we wouldn't have a situation where non-English, non-Welsh rulers regularly take power in Wales. Maybe it's unsatisfying to have a list of Polish place names for Wales, but the real immersion killer there is having Polish rulers in the first place.

Well exactly, but why even bother with this system if it's only used in certain places? Better to just leave it, or at best, have a Longshanks-esque decision that renames all the Welsh provinces, much like the Byzantine decision in EU3. Having two names for each province in the hopes that one of those cultures will be the one to control just sounds like a waste of time.

 

[unmerged(102980)]

I would hope we wouldn't have a situation where non-English, non-Welsh rulers regularly take power in Wales. Maybe it's unsatisfying to not have a list of Polish place names for Wales, but the real immersion killer there is having Polish rulers in the first place.

Is it really an immersion killer? Why would Polish rulers in the British Isles be any less likely to arise from 1066-1453 than the Latin Empire, the Anjou rulers in Naples, Poland, and Hungry, or the Kingdom of Jerusalem?

 

[monsterfurby]

I think we can file this under "unnecessary". Just being able to rename provinces like in EU3 should do the trick.

 

[Ruwaard]

Not unnecessary, but being able to rename provinces would be a good solution for all possible outcomes including a-historical ones.

 

[Drachenfire]

I wasn’t only thinking of Wales, but everywhere true. Prehaps there can be two or three slots available for alternate names for a province. Paradox wouldn’t necessarily have to include all variations, just the slot for it for later modders to in-fill.

Expanding on the idea, the province in my example could be ‘Dyfed’ the region while under Welsh control, ‘Pembroke’ while under English control, or ‘St. David’s’ if it becomes a bishopric.

Maybe this feature could be ‘locked’ into certain scenarios… ‘Dyfed’ in 1066, ‘Pembroke’ in 1186. The ability for single provinces to represent different areas could be beneficial in the modding community as well as for in-game emersion.


ps. I only use Wales as an example because it is the region I have done most research on. *shurg*

 

[Lord Blekinge]

I agree with Drachenfire's idea about certain names being locked in at certain scenario's start dates. As places got taken over by others their names changed. His use of Wales as an example is a good one. I have always wanted to play as the Count of Pembroke and not really the Count of Dyfed.

 

[the_legion]

IMHO the best sollution would be the EU3-like ingame-renaming-feature with an AI that can be scripted to take advantage of this feature.
So we could script certain AIs (english one, welsh one) to make use of the rename-feature and the Pembroke vs Dyfed-Fans can have their fun.

 

[Brownbeard]

Just leave it as it is in EU3. Better not to waste AI and development resources on irrelevant, yet allow every player to do it themself.

 

[Arko]

Vic2 and EU3 have mechanisms for renaming of provinces. So it's pretty clear (to me) that CK2 should easily be able to do this, too.

this will do the trick perfectly no need of any more complicated system.

With this option we can also have different names at different scenarios start

 

[CaptRobau]

Vic2 and EU3 have mechanisms for renaming of provinces. So it's pretty clear (to me) that CK2 should easily be able to do this, too.

The colonisation in eastern Europe is also a hot area for this... German, Polish, Lithuanian, Russian etc place names taking over after the establishment of new rulers... East Prussia f.ex. was only colonized in the 12th century and place names should change at some point. Would be nice if the territorial titles would then also change: Then we don't have to have a high chief of Marienburg f.ex.

Vic2 doesn't have the ability but the EU3 system is indeed a must.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Vic2 doesn't have the ability but the EU3 system is indeed a must.

But V2 has the possibility to change province-names by events.

 

[unmerged(84239)]

I don’t know if it is possible, I hope so, but it would be nice if a province could change names depending on the culture of the ruler and the culture of the province, which would demonstrate how the culture of the province may change over time.

For instance, pre-Norman conquest of Wales the historic region of Dyfed was part of the Principality of Deheubarth in Wales. However, after the Normans conqured Dyfed from the Welsh they established their castles and other fortifications, and renamed the district Pembroke.

With my idea, I’d like to see this region have two names. I haven’t developed the matrix yet, but something that may take into account the culture of the region, the culture of the ruler, and the liege of the ruler (whether or not it is the king of Wales or the king of England).

Does this make sence?

I know in Civilization there is a mechanism whereby when a city changes culture and owners it changes name depending.

I think a change name option would be enough.

It is VERY time consuming to look up a region's name on every language existing at that time (I doubt that it is even possible).

I would hope we wouldn't have a situation where non-English, non-Welsh rulers regularly take power in Wales. Maybe it's unsatisfying to not have a list of Polish place names for Wales, but the real immersion killer there is having Polish rulers in the first place.

Well, they can simply inherit.
Wales/England had german, french and (I think) dutch rulers.

Hungary had hungarian, austrian, ottoman, french, bohemian, luxemburger...

The colonisation in eastern Europe is also a hot area for this... German, Polish, Lithuanian, Russian etc place names taking over after the establishment of new rulers... East Prussia f.ex. was only colonized in the 12th century and place names should change at some point. Would be nice if the territorial titles would then also change: Then we don't have to have a high chief of Marienburg f.ex.

Colonization in eastern europe in the 12th century?

You mean the teutonic attack on the Grand duchy of Lithuania and the prussian tribes?

East Prussia was not deserted or anything when the germans decided to attack...

 

[ZhugeKongming]

Wales/England had german, french and (I think) dutch rulers.

In the Middle Ages? No, certainly not. England had Germanic and French (Norman and Angevin) rulers, yes; but the former were the native inhabitants of England and of course stopped ruling themselves after 1066; while the latter held the throne for the entire game timeframe. There certainly weren't any Dutch rulers... Are you thinking of William III?

Wales never had German rulers--unless you want to count Anglicized Normans. It was conquered by force.

Hungary had hungarian, austrian, ottoman, french, bohemian, luxemburger...

And why do you assume it would work the same way in Wales? Or, indeed, any Western European realm?