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claudefrog

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Hawo, im playing a 33 scenario as USSR. The germans dow me on 1st july 1941 like usual. I had approximately 290 army divisions, mainly infantry (level 5). They had mainly infantry level 3-5... They managed to blitz me so badly that by late October they have jus ttaken moscow and stalingrad and are basically on the verge of conqouring leningrad also... i have no match for them.
So...
I know the big problem i stuffed up with was, "limit recruitment" which meant when i was ever on about 600 manpower I would stop the manpower... I was thinking at the time it would be like the event said and i would run out of resources, but a headsup to anyone else, dont say yes... I got to a stage where i had no manpower by 1940 and had upgraded my army so the ic was going to supplies...

But besides that my army was well equiped a fairly decent size but yet i still got my ass kicked... settings are furious ai... oh and i never got that event that asks if the ai should cheat or not...

Anyone else had troubles as ussr?
 
Hawo, im playing a 33 scenario as USSR. The germans dow me on 1st july 1941 like usual. I had approximately 290 army divisions, mainly infantry (level 5). They had mainly infantry level 3-5... They managed to blitz me so badly that by late October they have jus ttaken moscow and stalingrad and are basically on the verge of conqouring leningrad also... i have no match for them.
So...
I know the big problem i stuffed up with was, "limit recruitment" which meant when i was ever on about 600 manpower I would stop the manpower... I was thinking at the time it would be like the event said and i would run out of resources, but a headsup to anyone else, dont say yes... I got to a stage where i had no manpower by 1940 and had upgraded my army so the ic was going to supplies...

But besides that my army was well equiped a fairly decent size but yet i still got my ass kicked... settings are furious ai... oh and i never got that event that asks if the ai should cheat or not...

Anyone else had troubles as ussr?

I have not played USSR in IC yet I did with AoD 1.04 first time and I got crushed on Normal/Aggressive setting. If you are playing Furious with AI as Germany then expect them to crush you. I have yet to play at that setting but figure its just too much for me atm.

I think a few forum members have played as USSR and have experienced the same dont know their settings or if they had the AI cheat or not event come up. I think alot of it has to do with the GDE stat for USSR. I think someone stated it is too low for Barbarossa but goes back to normal in the winter not sure, sorry I cant be of more help here, but I know someone will.
 
that might be the reason... i thought if i hold out till winter il be fine... but i lost my entire army just prior to winter... i never would lose in aod... this is something different, yes it might be a gde bug stat that has done it... the germans were able to beat me when they had only a couple of divisions and were outnumbered on an attack by alot... i thought maybe its my land docs, but they are fairly advanced... when im thinking about it, when i attacked finland i won the war pretty easy but i twas because i landed a unit in helsinki and he just did the job without a fight, but my attacks i made, even though i severely outnumbered them, i lost the majority of them... i think i won one. Maybe it is a gde bug.
 
In every game I have played or testplayed, Germany crushes the SU within a year. No matter whatever setting I have on, always crushed. I'm wondering if the GDE stuff for the USSR is coming too late, or the "Barbarossa Fails" event is firing too late. It seems to only fire in November, and by that point, almost all the key Bitter Peace cities have been taken.
 
The current modeling for the Soviet Union is not realistic.

Every game I have played, as Japan, Germany, The United States and the Soviet Union, have all resulted in the same outcome. The USSR is defeated in a span of under 8 months.

I tweaked the settings in the events files to push the GDE to 1.00, then 1.2 to see if this was the issue. No effect, the Soviets still get steamrollered.

I edited out the events that kick off if Soviet manpower goes over 420. Again no effect.


My thoughts, long, I added a table of contents to help.....

1. Historical Outcomes: What was possible.
2. German Logistical Issues
a. Supply trucks
b. Rail Engineers
3. Soviet Capabilities
a. Stalin's bias for attack
b. True Soviet defensive capabilities
c. Inability of Soviet units to operate large scale units due to the purges.
4. Possible Solutions in Game Modeling.
a. Modeling the Logistical issue for the Germans
b. Accurately modeling the Soviet GDE
c. Modeling the Soviet large unit leadership issues.
d. Stalin's hand.

Part I:
Historically, the Germans had no chance of defeating the Soviet Union in 1941. Even if they had started on May 10th as planned, they still would not have conquered the USSR in the first year. Hitler believed that conquering Moscow would cause Soviet capitulation, but this was not the case, and the current system of requiring multiple objectives deep in Soviet territory to force a peace agreement is probably an accurate modeling of the situation. The current game issue is that the Germans can achieve the objective in the first year.

The issue the Germans confronted was logistical. The supply system of the German Army could not support more then one deep penetration into the USSR at the range of Moscow without the railroad being used for supplies.

Part II:
The rail network in the Soviet Union was 1.52meters gauge (Wide Gauge), while the Germans used 1.435 meters gauge (Standard Gauge). the rail gauge between the German front lines and Leningrad was Standard Gauge, meaning that the German Army Group North could advance all the way to Leningrad using the existing rail network to move supplies for the advance.
Army Group Center and Army Group South had to rely on the road network for supplies, as all of the rail network in their sectors used the Wide Gauge. Supplies coming from Germany had to be unloaded from the trains and loaded onto horse carts or trucks and moved to the front. Normal operations yes, but for the Central and Southern Army Groups, the distance between the railhead and the front was measured in hundreds of miles, not a few dozen miles.

The German Army planned for the supply issue the different rail networks created, and did two things.

1.) After the fall of France, the German army acquired all possible heavy trucks they could from occupied France, using captured English and French vehicles, as well as some civilian vehicles, and their own Opal "Blitz" trucks to create a special supply train capable of extending the range of the German army several hundred miles past the rail heads. Combined these supply units were capable of extending the range of the German Army about 600 miles past the rail network, assuming they were used for a single extension supporting only one Army Group. The special supply units were split between all three Army Groups, most going to Central and Southern Army Groups.

2.) The German Army created 6 brigades of special Railroad Engineers who were specifically trained and equipped to re-gauge the rail network. Under ideal conditions, these 6 brigades could re-gauge over 50 miles of track a week if used on a single continuous line. However the units were divided between Central and Southern Army groups.

The supply units listed above were in addition to the already existing supply units attached to the German Army, and the Railroad Engineers were in addition to the several dozen pioneer brigades tasked to repair and maintain the tracks and roads as part of normal German Army operations.

If you do the math you will realize that taking Leningrad was very possible, and should have occurred.

Taking Moscow was also possible, if the Germans had focused on the task of extending the supply network from Warsaw through Minsk and on to Moscow. The Germans did not devote 100% of the supply effort in Central Front however.

Taking Stalingrad in 1941 was not possible with the existing German Supply system in 1941, and Baku or anything past the Urals would have been impossible.

Part III:
The second and bigger issue is the current events the drop the Soviet GDE to 40%, then slowly raise it to a max of 80%. This is done as a series of events in the MOD34 files.
While I understand the intent was to attempt to model Stalin's aggressive "Attack at all cost" mentality, and the resulting lack of defensive positions, minefields and other works prepared in June 1941 by the Soviet Army, the simple truth is no one was better at defending ground then the Russians, should their "Man of Steele" allow them to do so.

The first occurrence of the Soviet Army being allowed to dig in and defend was Leningrad. Once the Soviets made the decision to hold Leningrad, and Zhukov arrived to organize the defense, Leningrad held for 900 days against vastly superior numbers.

Zhukov was able to do what no other Soviet Office was able to do at this time, gain Stalin's confidence enough to allow him a free hand in planning a battle.

The defense in front of Moscow was even more intensive. Hundreds of miles of anti-tank ditches and defense positions were prepared, and elaborate minefields were laid. Zhukov waited for the German Army to be fully committed, then went to the attack.
But that attack would never have occurred if the line had not held. The successful defense of Moscow was a combination of the extensive and successful defense positions, and the German Army reaching the extreme limit of the supply network that had run hundreds of miles past the nearest railhead.

Stalingrad, rinse and repeat. The Soviets prepared extensive positions in the ruins of the city, fortifying every possible position and holding out against everything the Germans had. And again, when ready, and the Germans were stretched thin, Zhukov went to the attack. But that attack would never have occurred if the Soviets had not been able to hold the line and defend the city.

Kursk was the greatest defensive system built by the soviets. Complex minefields and interlacing kill zones dozens of miles deep and stretching for over 100 miles. The German Army attacked with 900,000 men and were so badly mauled they never went on the offensive again on the Russian front. Again, the Soviet defense were remarkable, and again, once the Soviets made up their mind to hold ground, they held ground.

The battles for Odessa and Sevastopol were also examples of excellent Soviet defense capabilities. Both required the Germans to lay siege to the cities and invest time and resources away from the advance. While the Soviets lost both cities, an examination of the battles shows that the Soviets were remarkably effective at defense.

The real issue for the Soviets was Stalin. In early 1941 Stalin refused to allow Soviet units to dig in and prepare defenses. No minefields were laid, no kill zones were registered, and all units were pulled back to their barracks and motor pools. Through the Summer of 1941, Stalin repeatedly ordered units to attack. Units that either no longer existed, or no longer, or never had the capability to attack, were sent piecemeal into Battle. Soviet Units who had been decimated of leadership by the purges, starved of replacements and spare parts, were treated as being fully trained and organized units by Stalin, and any office who failed to follow orders, no matter how insane, were recalled to Moscow and shot.

Even in Early 1942, Stalin overrode his officers and ordered a major offensive at Kharkov, and the results were disastrous.

Due to Stalin's purges Soviet units in 1941, and into 1942 simply did not have the experienced senior offices at the divisional and higher level to effectively command units in the attack. But attack was what Stalin wanted.

Part IV:
The first issue with the game is accurately creating the supply situation for the German Army operating in Soviet territory.
First, allowing 'Full IC takeover" effectively means the Soviets have no chance, as the resulting IC base of the Germans by Spring 1941 will be large enough to allow units to reach deep into the Soviet Union with 30% or better ESE all the way to the Urals and Baku. Players who wish to accurately model the issues facing the Germans should never play on Full IC takeover.
Second, German units operating inside of the Soviet territorial boarders of September 1939 should be penalized for supply. This penalty should be severe enough to prevent the Germans from putting any meaningful forces past a North - South line drawn at Moscow.
the effect should be to model the issues faced by the Germans in moving supplies using a dirt road network from railheads hundreds of miles from the front.

One way to do this is to fire an event every time a German Unit takes a province in the 1939 Soviet boundaries that cuts the Infrastructure by a percentage, requiring a period of time to repair, and permanently removing a small percentage to reflect the need to re-gauge the rail network.

While the Soviet union has the largest tank army in the world, with over 50% of the worlds tanks in existence at the time, over half of these tanks were T26 light tanks, and most of the rest were a mix of BT5, BT7 and T28 tanks. Only 300 or so T34 and KV1 tanks had reached the front line units by June 1941, of about 1,000 manufactured. None of these were in full brigade, much less division, sized formations, so no Soviet Division in Spring 1941 should be a T34 or KV1.
Over 25% of all Soviet tanks were not mechanically functional in May of 1941 due to lack of parts.
To reflect this, set all Soviet units to not allow upgrades until an event after the start of the war, and set the strength to 75%, and again do not allow them to re-enforce till after the start of the war.
Also, to reflect Stalin's "Attack at all cost" mentality, set the Soviets to not allow "Units can Dig In" until after the war starts, then set the "Units can Dig in" flag by event.
This will accurately model the situation the Soviets faced in Spring 1941.
the inability of the Soviets to organize large scale offensive operations is already modeled by the purges.
Soviet GDE should be set to 1.2 or 1.1. The simple truth is that Soviet units excelled at the defense. Setting the GDE to .8 does not accurately reflect the issues facing the Soviets in early 1941.

The German offense into Russia should be the rout that the game models today, with a major exception. When the Russians make a stand, the defense should be strong and significant. More importantly, German units operating more then 50 miles past the 1939 Soviet Borders should be severely penalized for supplies, so much so that operations as deep as Stalingrad in 1941 should not be an option.
The disaster the Soviet army faced in 1941 is real, and should not be changed. What should be changed is the ability of the Germans to operate large military units 1,400 miles from the nearest supply rail-head at the former borders of Poland (Brest to Sverdlovsk.)
 
Ok, its now 8th november 1941, i just had this uncle winter event! i have managed to just hold an advance from the germans next to leningrad! The germans are on the steps of baku with 1 soviet and 3 tanu tuvu the only available defence there. My entire army consists of 65 infantry and 9 motorised and 3 light armoured divisions. slowly im obtaining new units but it better be a bloody cold winter for the soviet union to survive!!! moscow is gone and the germans have halted their advance in the nth but are moving east rappidly....
 
While the Soviet union has the largest tank army in the world, with over 50% of the worlds tanks in existence at the time, over half of these tanks were T26 light tanks, and most of the rest were a mix of BT5, BT7 and T28 tanks. Only 300 or so T34 and KV1 tanks had reached the front line units by June 1941, of about 1,000 manufactured. None of these were in full brigade, much less division, sized formations, so no Soviet Division in Spring 1941 should be a T34 or KV1.
Over 25% of all Soviet tanks were not mechanically functional in May of 1941 due to lack of parts.
Waitwaitwait. Now, I agree with your deductions and suggestions and everything, btu I can't be silent with this topic.

Mark Solonin sums it up nicely - the Red Army tanks, when compared to Wehrmacht tanks, had a huge numerical superiority and an absolute qualitative superiority. Let me elaborate. KV-1s first. Your numbers are way off. By July 1941, there were 636 KV-1s produced. Of those, 256 were in the SW Front. That's almost the number of T-34s AND KV-1s you said were at the front line by itself! Then there's the simple fact that the KV-1s were literally indestructible by any german tank of the time. KVs also shrugged off direct hits from 150mm field guns. They were utter monsters. Even a single battalion could easily fend off a concentrated (note the word concentrated - obviously they could just move past them) attack by a whole Wehrmacht tank group. These tanks shouldn't even be included in comparisons with any tanks of their day, because there was no equivalent. Only 300 KV-1s are a calamity for the Wehrmacht on their own despite lacking strategic mobility.

T-34s were equally indestructible by german tanks. Penetration could only be achieved by the most modern tank gun, the KwK38, and only under a specific angle, which in practise would mean a German tank getting behind a T-34 and shooting at the rear armour from a very high hilltop (40 degrees is necessary) from under 100 metres. Imagine that happening! Especially with the T-34 having better speed than the german Pz-II! Though as a sidenote, the special AP rounds with tungsten material had superb penetration power, a tank equipped with them could easily penetrate the T-34 armour from manageable distances. Then you have to consider the fact that a) the AP rounds were a rarity. Tungsten was too valuable for the resource-starved Reich and used for aircraft instead, b) the low-caliber AP rounds were useless beyond a range of 500 metres, c) the rounds tended to bounce off sloped armour in the first place, and d) penetration, which was all the round was good for, is not enough to actually destroy a tank. Not to mention the SW Front (I am using this as an example because it has the most reliable figures) had 496 T-34s. So, to sum up the state of the Soviet monster tanks, the 4th Mech Corps (SW Front) on its own had 979 tanks, of which 414 were T-34s or KV-1s. That's one mechanized corps, admittedly the best equipped mech corps in the Red Army (but there were a total of 11 on the southern theatre!), having more than the amount you specified.

Then there's the majority of the Red Army tanks. Oh boohoo, they're not up to T-34 standards. Pz-Is and IIs were of deplorable quality, obsolete by 1939 already. T-28s were a notch above german tanks on their own. BT series were meant for a completely different purpose - everyone conviniently ignores how much more mobile than any german tank they were, but if a Pz-I can circle around a KV-1 and have the crew throw rocks at it, oh yes, THEN german mobility meant the Soviet tanks were plain worse. Not to mention even a BT-7 could knock out a Pz-III (E) from 500 metres further than vice versa. And the "terrible" T-26 was an equal, if not better tank, than the Pz-II. The Pz-I was so bad it has no comparison in the Red Army. Obviously their roles in the battlefield mean that plain tank v tank analysis isn't enough, but hell, Soviets easily had quality on their side.

The point of the rant is - the machines were better than perfect in comparison with the Wehrmacht. Their failure lies in human error - incompetence and impotence of officers, Stalin's silly decrees, the political comissars, effectively the whole stalinist system. It does not lie in the fact that the KV-1 had poor transmission, therefore it was "not mechanically functional". Sure the disaster should be emulated by the game, but with the right background.
 
I agree with you in many points..but I dont think that Soviets did that great defensive job.

"Historically, the Germans had no chance of defeating the Soviet Union in 1941."

Maybe, but as you mention they got chance to capture both Leningrad and Moscow which would make very difficult (if not impossible) to defend the rest of european Russia.

"The rail network in the Soviet Union was 1.52meters gauge (Wide Gauge), while the Germans used 1.435 "

Thats correct but I dont think it was such a terrible problem. You can change width of waggons wheel tracks (hope its clear what I mean)..both Germans and Soviets were doing this.

"the simple truth is no one was better at defending ground then the Russians, should their "Man of Steele" allow them to do so."

I wouldnt be so sure here. Germans did much better imho. Soviets got always both material and manpower superiority..if not..they simply lost...one of the greatest defensive job in whole WW2 is Battle of Narva to me...


"The first occurrence of the Soviet Army being allowed to dig in and defend was Leningrad. Once the Soviets made the decision to hold Leningrad, and Zhukov arrived to organize the defense, Leningrad held for 900 days against vastly superior numbers."

Germans were most of those 900 days outnumbered by Soviets. In addition Hitler didnt want to capture the city and after 1941 Lenningrad front was quite unimportant. Btw. it was mostly Germans who had to resist Soviets attacks in this area.

Kursk...Soviets knew for the months where Germans launch the attack and they were preparing positions like for 6 months....however they werent able to hold Germans back. Manstein didnt attack exactly according to the plan which resulted that Soviets were driven back. It is question if Soviet victory at Kursk was that decisive if Hitler didnt call the operation off just in the most important moments.

"The battles for Odessa"


Soviets were defending Odessa mainly against poor equipped Romanian units...and they were constantly bringing new troops via Black sea so they outnumbered poor Romanian units. However when German sent aid to Romanian army, Soviets had to evacuate the Odessa...

Sevastopol...again they outnumbered attacking Germans in one of the greatest fortress of all the time...its not so hard to defend place like that.
 
@Quaazi and Flowerpunkt.

Always nice to have responses from people who understand the subject and can respond intelligently. (In case that was lost in translation I meant that as an honest complement)

Your preaching to the choir about the inferiority of German tanks to Soviet designs.

To quote from the postwar analysis by the US Naval College, and later published and quoted by several authors:

" The Germans discovered that most roads in Russia, except only a few main highways, were turned into impassable mud tracks following even moderate rainfall. Therefore, railway, the only other main source of communication was heavily depended upon. This too was grossly inadequate. Not only were the main lines few in number and the branch line system poor, but the whole railway network used a broader gauge than that of Western European. This incompatibility between German and Russia rail systems brought about a tremendous strain upon the small amount of rolling stock which the German Army was neither able to seize nor to adapt. In winter, the railway life-line often failed and in the sector of the Army Group Centre, to quote just one example, only 9 out of 27 trains which were required daily to sustain the Front completed the journey.10 ".....
...."By October 1941, Hitler's lines of communication stretched from 800 km initially to about 1600 km eventually. As the invasion advanced, the lines of communication became unmanageable and unable to satisfy continuing logistics demands. Front line units were soon operating on a hand-to-mouth existence. Stretched to its limit, the state of the German supply lines created a logistical nightmare. Conditions rapidly became sub-human, supply systems failed and it was more a question of surviving than of fighting.
On 6 Dec 1941, after 168 days of continuous combat and within 30km of Moscow, the most modern and powerful armed force in the world was nearly exhausted. They were half-starved and half-frozen; out of fuel and ammunition. The overstretched 1,600km supply lines, exacerbated by severe transportation and weather problems, had proven to be grossly ineffective. The result was the Wehrmacht's inability to sustain the battle. Despite their precarious condition, the disciplined Wehrmacht tried desperately to reach Moscow. During the final stage, Stalin's Red Army counter-attacked, forcing a hasty retreat of Hitler's forces. Although the war was to continue a few more years, this failure, as the first German defeat in the Russian war, had a devastating impact on the Germans.
The Wehrmacht's greatest resupply failures can be summarized as follows: a) its inability to sustain the force; b) excessive long lines of communications, c) over dependence on rail roads, d) severe shortfall in motor transport capability, and e) untrafficable roads causing a total collapse of the supply system resulting in diversions of supplies, hoarding and total lack of confidence in the supply system as resupply could not sustain the battle
."


The point of that quote is to show that the German army was not capably of reaching Baku, Sverdlovsk, or event Stalingrad in 1941. The logistics requirements would simply not allow such as advance.

If the Germans could not meet the supply needs of the German Army 800 miles into Russia, how could they possible do so at the 1,400 miles for Sverdlovsk?

This goes back to my possible ways to model the actual condition of the Soviet armies in June 1941, by reducing the strength and not allowing upgrades.
Do you model the situation by applying an artificial penalty to GDE? or more accurately show the Soviet units as being low on strength, not currently dug in, and poorly commanded?

Whatever changes need to be made need to reflect the actual situation that the Germans would need to commit to at least two summers of action in Soviet territory to force a Soviet surrender. Logistically it was never possible to reach all of the Biter Peace objectives in 8 months as can be done in the current Iron Cross model.
 
OK...I have tweaked USSR GDE, reduced Germany's Occupied TC a bit, even gave the USSR more manpower and industry.

The Soviets still get steamrolled.

I am beginning to think the only way to solve this is gonna be an event, AI only, that will increase org and morale of all USSR land units when the invasion starts. I'm thinking 10 point push in both.

Does anyone know how to write this?

Chris
 
OK...try this. I am not sure if it will work, though.

If this works, and the USSR STILL gets creamed, we can add another one that takes effect after the USSR loses X percent of it's territory.

There should definitely be one that acts like below, but only lasts in the winter.

############################################
##### Soviet Boost I (AI USSR ONLY)
############################################
event = {
id = 336356
random = no
country = SOV
trigger = {
war = { country = ger country = sov }
ai = yes
}

name = "Soviet Boost I"
desc = "Soviet Boost I"
style = 0


picture = "german_supplies"

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1941 }
offset = 2
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1942 }

action_a = {
name = "Good"
command = { type = max_organization which = land value = 10 }
command = { type = max_morale which = land value = 10 }
}

}
 
OK...I have tweaked USSR GDE, reduced Germany's Occupied TC a bit, even gave the USSR more manpower and industry.

The Soviets still get steamrolled.

I am beginning to think the only way to solve this is gonna be an event, AI only, that will increase org and morale of all USSR land units when the invasion starts. I'm thinking 10 point push in both.

Does anyone know how to write this?

Chris

It would be more accurate to have an event in which German morale and organization goes down.

I disagree with whoever said it was "historically no chance" for Germany to defeat the USSR. Remember that the USSR was undergoing drastic economic planning, and they did not expect the Germans to break the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. Stalin and the Party was much more focused on the internal affairs of the country than the wars going on elsewhere.

Germany used the element of surprise to its advantage, and they had plenty of resources to supply their troops in the Eastern Front. The problem begins with Hitler thinking that his troops only needed supplies for a quick invasion. Next comes the winter, followed by a Russian resistance in the sieges, and that completely destroyed German morale and organization. The Russians had enough time to mobilize while all of this was going on, and all they had to do at that point was push back the Germans.

However, it was by all means perfectly possible for Germany to defeat the Soviet Union. Even if the winter had come as harshly as it did, all they would have needed is to have been better supplied (which, once again, was perfectly possible). Nonetheless, the real problem then would have been actually managing to keep the vastness of the USSR under control.

As such, it's not by any means awkward to have the Germans defeat the Soviets in the game. Still, to keep the game historically accurate, there should be an event which favors the Soviets over the Germans (not a 100% chance event, but rather something that is along the lines of 60-70%). ;)
 
OK...try this. I am not sure if it will work, though.

If this works, and the USSR STILL gets creamed, we can add another one that takes effect after the USSR loses X percent of it's territory.

There should definitely be one that acts like below, but only lasts in the winter.

############################################
##### Soviet Boost I (AI USSR ONLY)
############################################
event = {
id = 336356
random = no
country = SOV
trigger = {
war = { country = ger country = sov }
ai = yes
}

name = "Soviet Boost I"
desc = "Soviet Boost I"
style = 0


picture = "german_supplies"

date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1941 }
offset = 2
deathdate = { day = 30 month = december year = 1942 }

action_a = {
name = "Good"
command = { type = max_organization which = land value = 10 }
command = { type = max_morale which = land value = 10 }
}

}


That would certainly help the Soviets, those that survived the initial attack would be better able to resist.

Another idea I have been playing with is to progressivly drop the German TC and supply distance modifier the further into teh Soviet Union they advance.

################
# Germans outrun their supplies
#############################################
event = {
id = 97500
random = no
country = GER

trigger = {
ai = yes
AND = {
war = { country = GER country = SOV }
AND = {
areacontrol = { province = Luki data = -1 }
areacontrol = { province = Belarus data = -1 }
areacontrol = { province = Ukraine data = -1 }
areacontrol = { province = Russia data = -1 }
}
}
}

name = "AI_EVENT"
style = 0

date = { day = 29 month = september year = 1939 }
offset = 1
deathdate = { day = 29 month = january year = 1945 }

action_a = {
command = { type = tc_occupied_mod value = -10 }
command = { type = supply_dist_mod value = -10 }
}
}
############################################

That would be an example of the first event to fire for the regions closest to the border.

Each event series would fire based on the regions occupied. So the first set of regions near the old Polish boarder would cause the first round, and each round would get worse the farther into the Soviet Union the Region was.

On the Bitter Peace event fireing, the values would have to be reset as the cost of buying and supporting the MP garrision would be enough of a penalty for the Germans.
 
daemonbone,

This seems like a fantastic idea. Would the Germans have to control all provinces, or only key cities? Might make it easier if these are based on taking cities. Riga, Minsk and Kiev could fire the first, Sevastopol, Smolensk, and Orel the second, etc.
 
Dr. N,

My only concern with that is that it would reduce morale/org for ALL German units, regardless of location. There has to be a way to only affect those units on the Eastern Front.

I understand your concern, but consider the timeline of the events that took place following 1942 (at which point the Germans were unable to win at Stalingrad):

Eastern Front
-1942: German failure at Stalingrad.
-1943: German failure at Kursk.
-1944: German failure at Smolensk.
-1945: USSR takes the east.

Western Front
-1942: German victory at Dieppe, but unable to stop operations Bruneval, St. Nazaire, and Gironde.
-1943: Allies await situation in Eastern Front.
-1944: German loss at Normandy. Allies keep advancing.
-1945: German loss at the Bulge, end of Germany.


By showing both separate timelines, I think my position is quite obvious. Following the failed USSR invasion, the Germans lost organization and morale on both the Eastern and Western fronts. Hitler, and by that matter Germany, was completely sure that he would defeat the USSR. The failure of him doing so completely broke the morale of the Germans in all fronts. It makes perfect sense, and including such an event for the game is historically correct.

Yet, the game doesn't have to be 100% historically correct, and so that's why I suggested for the event to have a reasonable chance of firing (maybe like 60 or 70 percent). It could fire on 19 November 1942, the time when Operation Uranus started; Germany would have to still be at war with the Soviet Union. That means that if Germany has already beat the Soviets by 1942, then the event wouldn't fire and Germany would still be on a roll. However, if Germany is still fighting the Soviets by 19 November 1942, then the event would have a chance at firing and breaking Germany at all fronts (just like it historically did happen).
 
I understand your concern, but consider the timeline of the events that took place following 1942 (at which point the Germans were unable to win at Stalingrad):

Eastern Front
-1942: German failure at Stalingrad.
-1943: German failure at Kursk.
-1944: German failure at Smolensk.
-1945: USSR takes the east.

Western Front
-1942: German victory at Dieppe, but unable to stop operations Bruneval, St. Nazaire, and Gironde.
-1943: Allies await situation in Eastern Front.
-1944: German loss at Normandy. Allies keep advancing.
-1945: German loss at the Bulge, end of Germany.


By showing both separate timelines, I think my position is quite obvious. Following the failed USSR invasion, the Germans lost organization and morale on both the Eastern and Western fronts. Hitler, and by that matter Germany, was completely sure that he would defeat the USSR. The failure of him doing so completely broke the morale of the Germans in all fronts. It makes perfect sense, and including such an event for the game is historically correct.

Yet, the game doesn't have to be 100% historically correct, and so that's why I suggested for the event to have a reasonable chance of firing (maybe like 60 or 70 percent). It could fire on 19 November 1942, the time when Operation Uranus started; Germany would have to still be at war with the Soviet Union. That means that if Germany has already beat the Soviets by 1942, then the event wouldn't fire and Germany would still be on a roll. However, if Germany is still fighting the Soviets by 19 November 1942, then the event would have a chance at firing and breaking Germany at all fronts (just like it historically did happen).

The results on the western front had nothing to do with morale.
In the west there were mostly troops which were pulled off the eastern front to be rebuild. So they were understrength in the west to face off against fresh allied troops.
And at least the Battle of the Bulge was lost mainly due to fuel shortage.

So these results are related to the eastern front, but not because of morale reasons.
And it should not be affected by events, because one could organize and supply ones troops better than historically.