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The Wester Front #6 - The Digital Distribution bandwagon

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Very interesting discussion about box vs digital, I've been in this discussion many times and I am not of the opinion that a box product is to be considered higher quality or being a better rated product than a digital only release. I buy only digital download products these days and it has made me turn back to almost PC-only gaming after previously being 50/50 on console/PC.

I respect that gamers are used to a certain buying pattern and that some people prefer a paper manual, still it's inevitable that sooner or later a majority of the sales will take place as direct download. It has a lot to do things the way you are used to, imagine if TV shows in the 50s where delivered in small boxes that you bought in your local "program store" and carried home together with a small description of the show. Wouldn't you still today prefer having the show broadcast directly to your TV controlled directly in the sofa?

Digital distribution needs to evolve to be more convenient, a bit cheaper and easy to use and then you'll have a distribution form and customer experience that is not only comparable but superior to a box product.

Edit: Of course we will continue to release box products as long as it makes sense, but everyone should know we make more from a product distributed by a download portal than a box sold in a store.
 
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That's the thing though Fredrik: digital does make more sense in almost every way, but for some reason boxed games just have a nice 'feel' to them. Out of all my PI games I only have EU3 and HoI3 boxed, and I really like having the core game in a box. Same with music, everything is available digitally, it makes more sense, is more convenient, etc etc, but people still buy CDs and even vinyl. It's hard to define, but it's sort of prestigous or something.

I'm not trying to lecture you as you obviously know far more about the business than I do, but I hope the core games are always available in shops. Something about looking through the box on the tram on my way home from work makes me feel like a kid opening a present again. Maybe lame but it's true.
 
Yes RedRalphWiggum sums it up brilliantly. Most of my expansions for PI games are digital, I still preferred to get the boxed version of Vicky II, and of EU3. A lot of the time I use Digital for snap purchases. I still enjoy opening up games and reading the manual on the way home too..
 
Fredrik II said:
... I respect that gamers are used to a certain buying pattern and that some people prefer a paper manual, still it's inevitable that sooner or later a majority of the sales will take place as direct download. It has a lot to do things the way you are used to, imagine if TV shows in the 50s where delivered in small boxes that you bought in your local "program store" and carried home together with a small description of the show. Wouldn't you still today prefer having the show broadcast directly to your TV controlled directly in the sofa? ...
Click to expand...

Actually that is exactly how I do watch TV now. I never watch live TV any more.
I go to the store and buy a season or the complete series on DVD/Blu-ray take it home and watch it.
Being able to watch commercial free episodes as many as want when I want has ruined me watching "Regular" TV.

Now a more appropriate example might be, do I still want to do that when I could stream those episodes whenever and how ever I wanted.
With services like netflix and other ... Well I don't think those services are complete enough yet, but they are improving.

There is with this still something to be said for having the physical DVD in my hand and the box for it on my shelf.
I cannot imagine not having my favorite book on my shelf, when I walk by, I see them and remember the high points from the stories they contain.
Same idea with DVD and Game boxes. -End of ramble
 
Castellon said:
Actually that is exactly how I do watch TV now. I never watch live TV any more.
I go to the store and buy a season or the complete series on DVD/Blu-ray take it home and watch it.
Being able to watch commercial free episodes as many as want when I want has ruined me watching "Regular" TV.

Now a more appropriate example might be, do I still want to do that when I could stream those episodes whenever and how ever I wanted.
With services like netflix and other ... Well I don't think those services are complete enough yet, but they are improving.
Click to expand...

True, the reason people buy their favorite TV seasons is that there are no good streaming TV services. When all digital/streaming services are convenient, full of good content and fairly cheap the customer will rather do what is more convenient. On the other hand, there will always be collectors but that is a totally different market.
 
I think we should also add one of the most important component here. It's not like we are actively moving away from boxed products just for the heck of it. The financial investment, risk and lead times all increase when doing boxed products which means we need to judge the potential of return of investment much stricter = less projects published = less diversity for our community. Add distribution costs to that and the fact that PC space is being reduced in most retail stores (= we don't always get placement for our titles and when we do, often have to pay for that space) and it becomes less of a difficult choice. Our priority is always going to be more projects at less risk. When it makes sense to do boxes and we can get them placed, we will. So far that thinking has turned out to be pretty successful for us and for the numerous dev teams who have been able to get their games published through us. Other publishers might choose a different route and that's good - diversity rules.
 
Fredrik II said:
True, the reason people buy their favorite TV seasons is that there are no good streaming TV services. When all digital/streaming services are convenient, full of good content and fairly cheap the customer will rather do what is more convenient. On the other hand, there will always be collectors but that is a totally different market.
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There's something else to consider for that: as people use their internet connection more and more, they come into conflict with capacity limits. These come into play both at a personal level, in the form of extra costs to the consumer, and a corporate level in the form of extra costs for the broadband suppliers. This particularly applies during tough economic times. (I'm already having to 'dial back' my usage to stay within my basic capacity, for example.) There's also considerable regional variation in provision - for many people, streaming video of any decent quality is a dream.
 
Fredrik II said:
I respect that gamers are used to a certain buying pattern and that some people prefer a paper manual, still it's inevitable that sooner or later a majority of the sales will take place as direct download. It has a lot to do things the way you are used to, imagine if TV shows in the 50s where delivered in small boxes that you bought in your local "program store" and carried home together with a small description of the show. Wouldn't you still today prefer having the show broadcast directly to your TV controlled directly in the sofa?
Click to expand...
Just to take this point: No, I wouldn't - because I can watch the 'small box' version when I want, rather than when the broadcaster decides. I think you intended to contrast data streaming against DVD box sets, but you got your metaphor slightly wrong, Fred. ;)
 
Hm, let me just add why I am not fully convinced of digital distribution (yet). I came a long way from a total dislike of digital distribution to a somewhat wary stance concerning it. My current stance is: my "main" games I want as a box. I also am no longer vehemently against buying stuff online, but I tend to only buy addons (no choice, they are online-only), and smaller (read: cheap) games online. Games that I do not fully "care" about, and only buy to have a couple hours of fun. Indie games, and old games.

Now, what do I dislike with digital distribution? Apart from the missing DVD that allows me to use the game whenever I want to, and not when some other guy/manager/lawyer thinks I should be allowed to? (Cue amazon's Kindle PR disaster with 1984)

The digital distribution is still thinking too much along the lines of "we'll do the normal distribution, but save on the costs by doing it on the internet". Sometimes I believe digital retailers are actively trying to insult my intelligence (and there's not a lot to insult...). It's the internet, for crying out loud. I do not want to hear "you cannot buy this in your country". I do not want to hear "limited stock". It's a digital copy, one can make a trillion copies. I can access those copies in Japan, Timbuktu, Europe, the US, even from a research station in the Antarctic.

A recent(-ish) example: When Lionheart was announced, I took a look at the company and saw that they had produced King Arthur. So, I am partial to the period and quite like fantasy, so I thought to give it a try. Went to gamersgate, found the game. I could not buy the game because I lived in the wrong country, apparently. I still do not own the game, and I'll never buy it because I am still rather annoyed from that note.

Needless to say, that put a big damper on my budding enthusiasm for digital distribution. It showed me that it's not (only) about getting the games to the gamers. It's more about splitting up the market. And having read of amazon's 1984 PR "incident", I was painfully made aware that I was only allowed to download the games from digital distributors when they wanted me to.

Another example: I own a couple of games of gog.com. A grand site, and a wonderful way of presenting the games. (Gamersgate can earn a lot from them, and from Steam. The gamersgate site is just too cluttered). Now, what did they do when they re-launched their 2.0 site? They thought it woul dbe funny to close the entire site for a couple of days and in addition to that pretended for the first day that they had shut down and that no-one would be able to access their games any more. Funny, very funny. Again, it showed that I, the customer, am not in control of my games.

Every time I begin to like digital distribution more, each time something like that happens. Each time I still like the convenience (and the cheap offers), but still. Distributors need to learn that they are distributing stuff on the internet, not just distributing stuff via a distribution channel that is called internet.
 
Digital distribution is great in that it allows older games to resurface. In retail, it's easy to find a new title. But if you're looking for a specific game that
's more than half a year old and not a best-selling game (those generally stay on shelves longer), you'll have a hard time finding it. An advantage of digital distribution that is often forgotten.
 
Susana said:
I think we should also add one of the most important component here. It's not like we are actively moving away from boxed products just for the heck of it. The financial investment, risk and lead times all increase when doing boxed products which means we need to judge the potential of return of investment much stricter = less projects published = less diversity for our community. Add distribution costs to that and the fact that PC space is being reduced in most retail stores (= we don't always get placement for our titles and when we do, often have to pay for that space) and it becomes less of a difficult choice. Our priority is always going to be more projects at less risk. When it makes sense to do boxes and we can get them placed, we will. So far that thinking has turned out to be pretty successful for us and for the numerous dev teams who have been able to get their games published through us. Other publishers might choose a different route and that's good - diversity rules.
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Well, I can agree with this. If it frees up more money for new projects then screw the boxed versions. Ideally they wouldn't vanish altogether but I'm sure it makes business sense and if that means more games then so be it.
 
I bought my first Paradox titles (when it was PE and not PI) as boxed version in a software store in Italy, near home.
Now that PI has no more official distributors in Italy I only use digital download and I don't particularly miss boxed versions.

But I must admit that I'd probably never known Paradox products if I didn't find Europa Universalis in a shop some years ago.
 
Is it odd that I am reading this thread with all my boxed Paradox games next to me?
 
I can understand the pros and cons of digital distribution and I really don't want to get into a debate on the subject.

Last week I was a "retail box only" purchaser. Since then--as you can tell by the icons below my avatar--I have since jumped on The Digital Distribution bandwagon.

What Johan posted on a forum I frequent weighed heavily on my decision; something like, "You're missing out on a lot of good games." ;)
 
I agree with you Fredrik II the boxes and CD/DVD's are a thing of the past, but who can argue with this! And yes that is my original EU game disk!

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As you mention, streaming on-demand should be the format for TV. Broadcasting is only for live event such as sport.

For Lionheart pls check again, it's published by us so it shouldn't have any country restrictions. If it has, pls email GamersGate so they can fix it.
 
Also with digital download the life of each game is extended. And who can argue with more expansions. Not me.
 
Well, i'm fine with digital download, as long as i can use Gamersgate and Paypal :)

But i still would like to be able to have boxed version, at least for the base version.
 
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