Early Anschluss

[Prince of Lies]

hi there,

been playing around with the new patch and was rather surprised to encounter an event chain that includes an early yet violent version of Austria's Anschluss to the German Reich.
Situation: As Germany one gets the Austrian cores in 1934 but at the cost of war with Austria, Italy and Yugoslavia.

con:
- one does not get the Austrian army anymore (other than one or two inf divs)
- possible weakening of future ally Italy
- Austrian provinces are less developed in 34
- in higher difficulties the ai might get more out of Austria's IC than the human player
- loss of MP
- belligerence
- dissent
- possible gearing for War up by UK,F and US?????
pro:
- more IC at one's direct disposal
- chance to get some experience for units and early commanders (in low rank)
- chance to create the right and early puppets within "former" Yugoslavia (their MP gain makes up for the loss of Austria's mp)
- early alliance with Hungary
- some doctrine blueprints from puppets

all in all it seems worth it to wage an early war

any thoughts?

 

[Turul]

What is the problem with the belligerence? Why is it bad if it is high?

 

[Prince of Lies]

What is the problem with the belligerence? Why is it bad if it is high?

I was under the impression that a high belligerence has two main effects:
- democracies can declare war against a country only if a certain level of belligerence is present
- it slightly worsens the terms of trade for you

 

[slategrey252]

hi there,

been playing around with the new patch and was rather surprised to encounter an event chain that includes an early yet violent version of Austria's Anschluss to the German Reich.
Situation: As Germany one gets the Austrian cores in 1934 but at the cost of war with Austria, Italy and Yugoslavia.

con:
- one does not get the Austrian army anymore (other than one or two inf divs)
- possible weakening of future ally Italy
- Austrian provinces are less developed in 34
- in higher difficulties the ai might get more out of Austria's IC than the human player
- loss of MP
- belligerence
- dissent
- possible gearing for War up by UK,F and US?????
pro:
- more IC at one's direct disposal
- chance to get some experience for units and early commanders (in low rank)
- chance to create the right and early puppets within "former" Yugoslavia (their MP gain makes up for the loss of Austria's mp)
- early alliance with Hungary
- some doctrine blueprints from puppets

all in all it seems worth it to wage an early war

any thoughts?

Well, I thought I would give it a whirl.

I started building a 18 inf and 12 mtn army in 1933 with the express intention of taking the war to the upstart Austrians as soon as the event fired.

As expected the Italians and Yugoslavians joined in. While part of my force goose stepped it's way to victory in Austria, another part held the Yugoslavians at bay, whilst my mountain troops forced thier way to the Port of Venice and its surrounding provinces.

Shortly after Annexing Austria, Italy as alliance leader sued for peace giving me Venice and the surrounding provinces. This also forced Yugoslavia out of the war.

So for a brief campaign, I ended up with a Port in the Med, lots of experience for my mountain troops (which will come in handy when I sneak up on the Yugoslavians later), and some nice resource generating provinces.

All the other events fired as normal, even the iron pact (ger - ita) event.

I started the war in Poland with more troops than usual. My build rate was enough to replace the forces I didnt get from Austria, create my usual Polish invasion Army and even produce extra units. I could have produced a lot more but ran out of MP fairly early on in 1938 for inf production.

So here I am, in October 1939, at war with britain and France but no worse the wear for my early annex of Austria

 

[Steiner3]

My buildup as Germany is manpower restricted, not production restricted.
Can the addiditional manpower income for the austrian provinces make up for the manpower (I think it is 400) given by the Anschluss-Event?

 

[slategrey252]

My buildup as Germany is manpower restricted, not production restricted.
Can the addiditional manpower income for the austrian provinces make up for the manpower (I think it is 400) given by the Anschluss-Event?

I ended up with more units in 1939 than I usually have, thats even after building the units I would usually get from Austria

I did hit an mp shortage in 1938, but then there were several events that fired that topped up the manpower pool. During the shortage I just idled the INF and LARM production queues for a few months.

I realise that this is all subjective until someone with OCD crunches the numbers, but for me it would seem that an early invasion of Austria increased my 1939 Army size beyond what a late anschluss usually provides.

As I said in my other post, a very real benefit is being able to capture the port of Venice giving you access to the MED for when your Z ships start rolling out. Think of all those juicy convoys waiting to be sunk.

It gives you something to do during the early years rather than just watch the percentages increase on your research screen.

It provides a training ground for your army as well, which is invaluable for the invasion of Poland in 1939.

There will be those that feel this is gamey because it never happened in real life. While I like historical accuracy as much as the next gamer, I am a big fan of "what if". I want to see what Germany COULD have done given a different set of circumstances and with my tactical genius in charge.

A few changes I would suggest though:-

1. If Germany goes to war with Austria, Italy and Yugoslavia, there should be a very large chance if not outright possibility that Italy will not generate the Iron Pact events, or join Germany in an alliance while Germany holds Italian territory.

2. Yugoslavia should increase it's military on its border with the former Austria

3. There should be an increased chance of early war declaration by the French and/or the British

 

[Prince of Lies]

Depending on the style of playing, like taking military command of your puppets, it can make a huge difference if you can create your first puppets in 1935. !Important! create Bosnia before the creation of Serbia (the reverse does not seem possible). via direct land connection you do get extra resources and Serbia does turn out quite an army and the occasional blueprint. (don't know how loyal Serbia is going to be down the road)

I did not create Croatia and Slovenia yet because I want Croatia to be established via event (3 Infantry divisions and extra manpower to Germany) and strengthen Italy by awarding them most of the Adriatic coast. In addition Italy did inherit most of the Austrian army (including that valuable Austrian HQ) that should make up for any loses that might have occurred during the German-Italian hostilities.

with the new changes, Germany has to research light tanks to be able to build Panzer1 divisions which are perfect for clocking up experience while reducing MP losses and at the end of that little rearrangement of the European map, selected tank commanders like von Manstein, Guderian etc. can reach skill level 8 or even 9 while being charge of tank divisions with 100 experience ... :wacko:

taking northern Italian territories with the port of Venice would seem counterproductive in the long run since it deprives Italy of important IC. Since Yugoslavia will have to be "sacrificed" on the long run anyway why not annex it and use the ports on the Adriatic coast as the base for the Kriegsmarine in the Med.

 

[slategrey252]

@Prince of Lies

I see your point about about depriving Italy of IC, however with a port of my own in the MED I get immediate gratifaction for my Z Fleet Commanders instead of waiting around for italy to join my axis of evil. I can have my Z fleet doing nasty things in the Med while I'm invading Poland, and i always have the option later of handing Venice back to the Italians if I feel inclined.

I accepted Italy's negotiated peace because I wasn't overly sure how long it would take me to conquer both Yugoslavia and Italy. I didn't want the war extending too far and interfering with the firing of other events. Accepting Italy's peace also ended the war with Yugoslavia.

Just going whole hog by holding Italy in place and completing the invasion of Yugoslavia would be the better way, because as you quite rightly point out, Yugoslavia has to go some time and early is good. Heh, now I think about it, it would also stop the problem that happens frequently to me when i invade Yugoslavia with Italy as an Ally: when I annex Yugoslavia, Italy gets all the ports. Most annoying.