Ottoman choices

[Black Ader]

Hello,
I would ask (in my bad english) what are the benefits of choising to crush Janissaries. I make the harder choice, I mean for my stability, I have a lot of unrest, but after that I'm still receiving events with a drop of stability (era of tulips, end of era of tulips, not mentionning power to the beys or not...). Perhaps it could be worse? but half of my time is spent crushing revolts and regaining stability.

In fact, I must confess that I find this ottoman campaign very difficult. Not a critic, on a contrary... But after the first century, I find very uneasy to struggle against the endless wawes of austrian armies...

 

[Toio]

I do not see much unrest in the file for option a

after 1526 you get a one event of +5 stab

then in 1620 ( 301110) stab -2

tulips is
1718 ( 3393) -1 stab

1724 ( 3400 ) -1 stab

1740 ( 3381) +2 stab

1780 ( 301114) u get a -3 stab

for the janissery sequence
there are no stability hits for 1, 2, 3 , 5 and 6
#4 has a -2 stabilty.

I think your problem is that u have a high RR in certain provinces.

you need to at least give us the name of the events

 

[ConjurerDragon]

Hello,
I would ask (in my bad english) what are the benefits of choising to crush Janissaries. I make the harder choice, I mean for my stability, I have a lot of unrest, but after that I'm still receiving events with a drop of stability (era of tulips, end of era of tulips, not mentionning power to the beys or not...). Perhaps it could be worse? but half of my time is spent crushing revolts and regaining stability.

In fact, I must confess that I find this ottoman campaign very difficult. Not a critic, on a contrary... But after the first century, I find very uneasy to struggle against the endless wawes of austrian armies...

If you find yourself struggling against austrian armies after the first hundred years - rejoice! You just experience the historical feeling of the Ottomans who faced endless quarrels with the Habsburgs over the possesion of hungary and the balkan ^^
My advice would be to crush the habsburgs as soon as you have cores on Vienna.

The choices in the jannissary events and the bey events and the event of the Sheik-ül-islam are simple:
a is the historical choice: More jannisarys, more power to the beys and create the sheik-ül-islam. All of them good choices in the near future it seems.
However those decisions will lead to worse and worse choices later and if you always go the historical route then you will for example get a very backwards economy and military (because the janissary transfrom from a small military elite that consists only of captured christian boys who are forbidden to marry to a LARGE blob of wealthy families similar to a fat aristocrazy that control trade in your empire and drain your resources) and at one point the "tech group" of the ottomans will be lowered one level meaning that from then on researching technology will be much harder and take much longer.
or you avoid the historical a choices in the knowledge that those were historically bad decisions - but then you face rebellions, revolts and generally much unrest among your military and subjects.

 

[Black Ader]

I know -but sometimes I can't imagine what could be worse. Destruction of janissarys cost 4 stability points, +5 revolt risk for 10 years, the loss of 25000 men and 10 revolts. Since the rebels serms unbeatable without 2x or 3x more troops, the situation is hopeless. I struggle hard, but after 5 or 6 years half of my provinces are rebels, and turn to other countries or claim independance. And I choosed to close Janissary for the muslims in 1540...
I guess not destroying Janissary will bring more bad events, but just after the end of the revolt period, there is a "decentralizing effect of provincial system", and then my empire is gone. On the contrary, if I don't destroy Janissary, I've +1 stability. Destroying Janissary really worth the collapse of the empire , not mentionning all those years without research, because I try desesperetly to regain stability?

 

[binTravkin]

Since the rebels serms unbeatable without 2x or 3x more troops

Probably you need to raise the "army maintenance" slider, so your troops are actually un full morale while fighting them?

Additionally you HAVE to revisit your religious tolerance sliders and adjust for the most often found religions in your empire.
AS WELL as converting the provinces that are wrong religion as soon as possible (requires high ADM monarch).
And finally - don't forget your sliders, if you leave them "as-is", blame yourself.

Basically it seems that you are doing something (or several things) wrong gameplay-wise as indicated by "rebels serms unbeatable without 2x or 3x more troops".
Rebels should usually have less morale than your troops and be vulnerable to armies with a good mix of cavalry.
Also, the revolt risk (unless you are constantly at -3 stability) should be bearable most of the time, enough so to not let rebels get your provinces.

 

[Black Ader]

I apply all of that, I'm an used EU player. On a side note, I play Agceep version of For the glory.
Even with proper maintenance and cavalery, the rebels are very strong, 6000 men easily beat 20000 with a third of cavalery. But it should be something related to agceep, because in the agceep forum they talk about the "superrebel" problem.

 

[binTravkin]

Well, I must have played Ottos too little lately, but when I did, usually by 1520 there were so little wrong-religion provinces that they hardly made enough rebellions to make my head ache.
6k rebels beating 20k regulars sounds like low-tech or unoptimized sliders to me anyway - full offensive, full land and on the way to free subjects should give you equal or better morale most of the time.
Morale is of tremendous importance in this game, so maxing out anything that gives morale is a good idea.

Also, being Ottomans maxing or at least not touching the less-progressive "Aristocracy" and "Narrowminded" is a good idea.
And I believe the centralization benefits are anyway brought to you by Bailiff promotion, so it's useless to emphasize until you get others right.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

On what setting is your narrowminded/innovative slider? If you have stability issues with rebels everywhere ( and not just from events ) then raising stablity and going more narrowminded ( = more missionaries to convert wrong-religion provinces) is good.
Still from EU2 and not Ftg but most still applies:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...debate-Innovativeness-versus-Narrowmindedness

And check your badboy rating in the diplomacy screen.

 

[Black Ader]

Well, I konw very well this game, and all my sliders are in a good position. Maybe I haven't offensive at the last stage, but very close. Rebels are still very effective. And not only for me: I've already seen 8000 rebels defeating a 50 000 men austrian army (!).
So my question remain: if you destroy Janissarys in 1604, you've 10 years of absolute nightmare. What are the consequences if you choose not to destroy them, having +1 stability?

 

[unmerged(9875)]

You will go from latin tech group to, in the worst case scenario, muslim tech group. Then you will strugle later. Take the Janissary hit and stay in latin tech group. If you have managed to get infra 5 ? and govenors aswell catching the Austrians will be easy. The problem with the Ottomans is that you get a lot of "bad" rulers from 1600 and onwards so you should try to get all conversions done in the early time period.

Im playing a Ottoman game myself atm, and have reached mid 1600ds with 24 land, 17 sea, trade done, infra 5. Austria is leading with 27 land but rest of the west is on par with me. I have most of my cores at this point, give or take a few,and around 20% inflation. This is a bit high, but you get an event wich gives you 10% inflation. Have 9 manufactories and get around 10g each month with an yearly inflation decrease of 0.05 inflation. If im lucky and get a few (10) excellent year events ill be golden.

To be honest though i usually stop playing when i get this far with the Ottomans, you dont feel threatened by anyone at this point so it gets a bit boring

 

[ConjurerDragon]

Well, I konw very well this game, and all my sliders are in a good position. Maybe I haven't offensive at the last stage, but very close.

If you know the game very well then you should know that offensive / defensive have nothing to do with beating your own rebels and you should have no real problems putting down some rebellions as the Ottomans. And what was your bad boy rating?

Rebels are still very effective.

Your own rebels have the same tech and morale as you do.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?200487-Rebel-FAQ-v1.09

And not only for me: I've already seen 8000 rebels defeating a 50 000 men austrian army (!).

So? I´ve seen worse. But if it´s relevant depends on the circumstances. Did the austrians attack without a leader across a river into mountains? Then a baby would have beaten them ;-)

So my question remain: if you destroy Janissarys in 1604, you've 10 years of absolute nightmare. What are the consequences if you choose not to destroy them, having +1 stability?

If you want to know the exact consequences you should read the ottoman event file. The general idea I already outlined to you.

 

[MichaelM]

The events in a somewhat easier-to-read format: http://agceep.net/eventdoc/AGCEEP_Specific_Ottomans.eue.htm#evt301116

 

[Black Ader]

The events in a somewhat easier-to-read format: http://agceep.net/eventdoc/AGCEEP_Specific_Ottomans.eue.htm#evt301116

Thanks! I can see now what are the long-term benefits of crushing janissary: some bad events will never fire. But the price is high...

 

[Black Ader]

Im playing a Ottoman game myself atm, and have reached mid 1600ds with 24 land, 17 sea, trade done,

Trade done? well done...you play with agceep or the original game? how did you manage that?

 

[unmerged(9875)]

agceep, i always go for infra 5 first, then take whatever takes the shortest time

 

[Therion]

Your own rebels have the same tech and morale as you do.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?200487-Rebel-FAQ-v1.09

Does that still apply to FTG? I though I read somewhere that rebels are now always at full morale.

 

[unmerged(145825)]

Basically it seems that you are doing something (or several things) wrong gameplay-wise as indicated by "rebels serms unbeatable without 2x or 3x more troops".
Rebels should usually have less morale than your troops and be vulnerable to armies with a good mix of cavalry.

Rebels ARE overpowered in FTG... period!

 

[unmerged(94521)]

I've been playing EU2 and later FtG, and i must also admit that the rebels seem to have been buffed considerably in (the latest patch?) of FtG. I don't know if it is due to some changed game mechanics or just improved stats. However i found it impossible to beat even a single rebel stack in both a Songhai and a Japan game, something i had done before in EU2 with AGCEEP.

Have the rebel game mechanics been changed?

 

[Black Ader]

It seems that I was right after all...

 

[MichaelM]

If you're curious about rebel morale levels, you can use the richelieu cheat so that you can select a rebel army. Then compare the numbers in the morale tooltip to yours.