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I have this itching feeling telling me to have you lynched right away. Why? Because you loudly proclaimed your wish to see Boris dead. You have taken off the baddie hat and as such the village is probably bound to follow you like mindless sheep as usual. You know this. So if we hang you and you are a wolf then we can be relatively sure that Boris isn't one.

Actually, I approve of this sort of logic. It's a bit of a shame that you're targeting me with it, but this type of reasoning is something I've advocated in the past, so I can hardly blame you for it.

However. Consider this: How likely, truly, do you think it is that I am a baddie in this instance? Don't you think I'd have thought it easier to keep that hat on for another game if I'd been evil?

It's a shame we won't get anything if you are a villager though. It might be unfair, but I think you are the single person that would give us the most information from a lynch.

You're breaking Joeb's law here. And that's all I have to say about the matter.
Or wait: actually, no.
If you are going to reason like this: There is one person in this village who's death would give the village just as much, if not more information: You.
You see, you are advocating *my* death AS WELL as Boris's death. Therefore, lynching you gives us information about two people instead of just one.
Of course would not dare to advocate actually running you up for it.. that'd defeat the purpose of this entire argument :p

Well, yes, but Randy also knows how dangerous it is for him to advocate someone's death, what with the usual village reactions. If Boris is his packmate he could easily get him killed that way.

I do support running up Boris as well though.

You mean the usual villager reaction of "he's manipulating the village, so he must be EVIILL"?

You know, it's usually far more likely that the wolves are the ones quietly hiding themselves in the background. With a few notorious exceptions, of people who tend to be loud regardless of their roles.

But you know, all that you're doing here is pointing out exactly why I was wearing the baddie hat in the first place.
 
Actually, I approve of this sort of logic. It's a bit of a shame that you're targeting me with it, but this type of reasoning is something I've advocated in the past, so I can hardly blame you for it.

However. Consider this: How likely, truly, do you think it is that I am a baddie in this instance? Don't you think I'd have thought it easier to keep that hat on for another game if I'd been evil?

How likely? I'd say about 23,5%. :p
I don't know what you'd have thought. All I know is that you entered this game dead set on keeping that baddie hat on, only to drop it first thing when we got the roles.

You're breaking Joeb's law here. And that's all I have to say about the matter.
Or wait: actually, no.
If you are going to reason like this: There is one person in this village who's death would give the village just as much, if not more information: You.
You see, you are advocating *my* death AS WELL as Boris's death. Therefore, lynching you gives us information about two people instead of just one.
Of course would not dare to advocate actually running you up for it.. that'd defeat the purpose of this entire argument :p

I know that very well and I was fully expecting someone else to vote me for it. That is a price I am willing to pay. From my point of view however you are still no 1, because I know that I am a villager. As such my argument is perfectly valid for me to use.

You mean the usual villager reaction of "he's manipulating the village, so he must be EVIILL"?

You know, it's usually far more likely that the wolves are the ones quietly hiding themselves in the background. With a few notorious exceptions, of people who tend to be loud regardless of their roles.

But you know, all that you're doing here is pointing out exactly why I was wearing the baddie hat in the first place.

I don't think there's anything that the wolves are particularly likely to do. What the wolves do depend very much on who the wolves are and how they interact with each other. I don't think it's unlikely to find you spearheading the village as a wolf.
 
How likely? I'd say about 23,5%. :p
I don't know what you'd have thought. All I know is that you entered this game dead set on keeping that baddie hat on, only to drop it first thing when we got the roles.

You know, there is one other reason to do that. Well, it's actually pretty obvious by now, so no real harm is done by bringing it public, that Boris was soft-outed by randakar, who feared getting lynched on day 1. Now, two options, either randakar was contacted by someone he trusted and told to find a way to get Boris killed (since he was deemed an unlikely wolf due to how the votes piled on him pretty fast), or, more likely, in my opinion, he is actually the Seer himself.

Now, I'm not going to recall the full story of the last Lite games and the mistakes the village did in regards to treating Seer outings, but we most definitely do not want to lynch randakar. There is no really plausible scenario where randy wolf would do this, with all the negative consequences it ensues, without very good reasons.

I suggest lynching Boris today, finding his identity, and if he turns out bad, lynch Najs. This way, even if randakar gets hunted today, we will be able to bag two wolves, which is a perfectly fair trade. Why Najs? Well, first because he advocated getting Randy lynched and second because "not that I mind Boris being run-up as well" is a baddie tell.
 
You know, there is one other reason to do that. Well, it's actually pretty obvious by now, so no real harm is done by bringing it public, that Boris was soft-outed by randakar, who feared getting lynched on day 1. Now, two options, either randakar was contacted by someone he trusted and told to find a way to get Boris killed (since he was deemed an unlikely wolf due to how the votes piled on him pretty fast), or, more likely, in my opinion, he is actually the Seer himself.

Now, I'm not going to recall the full story of the last Lite games and the mistakes the village did in regards to treating Seer outings, but we most definitely do not want to lynch randakar. There is no really plausible scenario where randy wolf would do this, with all the negative consequences it ensues, without very good reasons.

I suggest lynching Boris today, finding his identity, and if he turns out bad, lynch Najs. This way, even if randakar gets hunted today, we will be able to bag two wolves, which is a perfectly fair trade. Why Najs? Well, first because he advocated getting Randy lynched and second because "not that I mind Boris being run-up as well" is a baddie tell.

That is a very valid point, but I'd very much like to hear Randy out on this before we get a massive bandwagon.
 
I knew I shouldn't have gone with the men to the village square! All they do is talk, talk and talk some more. And nothing about interesting things like knitting, babies or the new dyed wool fashion from Wrexham. That's what I get from being too nosy and hoping to find my Tamius. :(

And then this voting, is that really going to help? Seriously? Well, if we really have to kill someone at least make sure it is someone old and ugly, like

vote Vainglory as Pelinal Whitestrake, a retired crusader
 
I don't know what you'd have thought. All I know is that you entered this game dead set on keeping that baddie hat on, only to drop it first thing when we got the roles.

Oh, but you misunderstood that bit quite nicely. I wasn't dead set on keeping the hat on. I was dead set on NOT BEING FORCED into taking it off.
Furthermore, if you know me a bit you'll find I am quite the impulsive person sometimes. I can and will change my mind on a whim. Keeps things fresh.


I know that very well and I was fully expecting someone else to vote me for it. That is a price I am willing to pay. From my point of view however you are still no 1, because I know that I am a villager. As such my argument is perfectly valid for me to use.

Again a page from my own playbook. Bravo!


I don't think there's anything that the wolves are particularly likely to do. What the wolves do depend very much on who the wolves are and how they interact with each other. I don't think it's unlikely to find you spearheading the village as a wolf.

Except that I've never done it before.
There's one simple dirty secret to finding wolves: Just put yourself in their shoes.

Let's, for argument's sake, take this game as an example. Let's say that you, boris, and me are all innocent. What would a hypothetical wolf do? Well, laugh, and then quietly vote for one of the three contenders, basing that on whoever has the most (edit: least .. doh) ridiculous case.

Now, let's say that Boris is a wolf, and you his packmate.
What would wolf-me do in your place, given the situation directly following my post about him?

1) Put my vote on a third party quietly, and try to stay out of it. (Like Johho just did .. :) )
Lots of wolves do this. It's hard to detect though, since a lot of villagers do that as well.
2) Go after the person doing arguing. Especially if you believe the person in question is the Seer, which when you think about this from a wolves' point of view, might be something they might be confused enough into thinking about me. (I'm not. Really. Stop sending me PM's about it already, thanks. :p)
3) Let the village bandwagon Boris, urge my packmates to vote him, and therefore condemn him to death - or better yet, force the village to counter the obviously ridiculous bandwagon with a wagon of their own on someone else. (And that really has happened once or twice.)
Problem there is - if the village picks up on it you're screwed, and you risk sealing a packmate's doom for no good reason. I don't usually do this, unless I think there's a good reason - in general it takes either a dead seer or a ridiculously suspicious packmate for the pack to resort to this, and so far I've only done this once - maybe twice, if my last win as a wolf counts.

Now, let's say that Boris is NOT a wolf, and you a wolf. I, of course, innocent.
Take a look at scenario 2, above. It would make less sense for you to go after me like this if you're a wolf and Boris is not. What do you care which of the two of us gets lynched? Unless you're arguing for the sake of arguing, (which is entirely possible, mind) it's a pretty oddball tactic to go after me.


Now, I am not you. Your emotional reaction may - probably will, in fact - differ from mine. But all of the above are valid tactics a wolf pack might employ. The trick is in taking perspectives like this and finding out which one you feel is the most likely thing to have happened.


There's a few other permutations I can think of, but some of them involve me being a wolf - which I'm not - and I'm not going to do that exercise for you. If I do, you'll accuse me of anticipating whatever argument towards my innocence follows, and doing whatever I am doing for exactly that purpose. That, however, is taking things to the level of ridiculous, so I won't go there :p

I suggest lynching Boris today, finding his identity, and if he turns out bad, lynch Najs. This way, even if randakar gets hunted today, we will be able to bag two wolves, which is a perfectly fair trade. Why Najs? Well, first because he advocated getting Randy lynched and second because "not that I mind Boris being run-up as well" is a baddie tell.

Since when did you start making so much sense?

To be honest though, I think najs more suspicious than Boris. Boris is just a "let's punish someone for being too quiet and not providing enough reasoning in the previous games" thing. Basically it's a CAWZ vote. Najs, however .. see above.

edit: I'll reïterate though, this is *NOT* an outing in any way, shape, or form. I am not a Seer and have absolutely zero knowledge of any scans on Boris. Thanks.
 
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If I had been a wolf I would have put on a smug face and stayed quiet. As a wolf I rarely post anything of real importance and I certainly don't push for people to die on day 1. That attracts attention which I have a tendency to deal poorly with. I am not a very good wolf.
 
(2) Vainglory - Rendap (148), Johho888 (169)
(2) Najs - Enkhuush (141, 162), Reis91 (149, 159, 163)
(2) Randakar - Boris (146), Najs (144, 158)

(1) Boris ze Spider - Randakar (145, 147)
(1) Esemesas - Falc (155)
(1) Rendap - Vainglory (142)
 
That's how I make the count. This is obviously "consolidation" time; picking frontrunners has already been done.

The whole Najs-Randy-Boris thing looks like jumping at shadows to me, but I always think it's better to run with anything on Day 1 than go for something random. Blegh...

Unvote Rendap
Vote Randakar


Randy had a victory recently, so he can eat it!
 
Erm, Vain, you did realize my vote was worthless, right? Esemesas is well and truly dead. Also, thanks for ruining the joke by forcing me to explain it.

Anyhoo:

VOTE NAJS to keep the tie going.
 
Erm, Vain, you did realize my vote was worthless, right? Esemesas is well and truly dead. Also, thanks for ruining the joke by forcing me to explain it.

Yeah, I did - I initially meant to put a note after it that it was invalid, same way as with other invalid votes, but I went back and added post numbers for them all, got distracted, came back, finished the tally, and posted it. Totally forgot to put the note up.