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Black Watch

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Apr 13, 2008
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This is a screenshot from one of my games from some time ago.

I'm posting it here for posterity. I plan to make a Philippine AAR, but achieving this result is admittedly highly dependent on luck as regards how events in-game turn out and how the AIs, both Allied and Axis, behave. So there's no guarantee I can pull it off the next time I play. Therefore, I might as well put this screenshot up now.

PhilippinesAnnexesJapan.jpg


Note that thanks to the Philippines, the Allies just barely squeezed out enough VPs to win the game. This shot was taken two hours before the game ends. :D

Other interesting things to note in that screenshot: The Philippines' puppet, Indonesia. (A puppet of a puppet!?) While I was taking over the Home Islands, the US was nice enough to land in Manchuria and take Japan's mainland VPs. They then liberated Korea. Interestingly, note that the Soviets and the Allies are also at war. This is because the Divided Korea event happened and North Korea still chose to declare war on the south, dragging the Soviets in, despite it being a war they have no chance of winning. It's like the Comintern starting WWIII when WWII hasn't even ended yet! :wacko: To the west, off the left edge of the screenshot, the Germans are still at war with the Soviets and pushing deep into Siberia. What's left of the Soviet Union is in the unenviable position of fighting a two-front war against the other two major alliances.
 
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I'm posting it here for posterity. I plan to make a Philippine AAR, but achieving this result is admittedly highly dependent on luck as regards how events in-game turn out and how the AIs, both Allied and Axis, behave. So there's no guarantee I can pull it off the next time I play. Therefore, I might as well put this screenshot up now.

VERY IMPRESSIVE! And I am most curious how you achieved that since the obstacles for the Philippines are immense as it requires amphibious operations over a hostile sea and manpower to build enough divisions. But the PH has so little IC, a tiny Navy and very limited manpower. Yes, please do post your AAR so we can learn the details of this amazing conquest.

Also, exactly what version of HoI2 are you playing? I would love to get a copy and try playing the Philippines to see what I might achieve. I once played Poland and annexed Germany - which I thought was impressive - until somebody else played Poland and took all of Asia. Maybe I should try playing Mexico and attack USA? Definitely, your screen shot is the most impressive I've ever seen.

By the way, I Canadian am living in Angeles City. Let's meet sometine! Maybe we can figure out how to save the Spratlys!

Very best wishes for you and your family at this time of crisis in Manila. You can text me at 0947-736-2690
 
This is a screenshot from one of my games from some time ago.

Just wanted to additionally ask if you play the other HoI-2 versions Doomsday, Armageddon, or Arsenal of Democracy? Arsenal of Democracy was what I played last until about 2 years ago when my laptop - with game on it - got stolen. I am planning on getting back into it but am not sure which game I should buy this time even though I played all of the HoI-2 series. I don't like the reviews for HoI-3 even with Semper Fi so don't think I'll get that. I thought AoD was pretty good improvement over the previous, as was Doomsday over the earlier HoI-2. Would be nice to get same game you are playing and maybe we can arrange a 2-player thing sometime?
 
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Strategy for the Philippines

VERY IMPRESSIVE! And I am most curious how you achieved that since the obstacles for the Philippines are immense as it requires amphibious operations over a hostile sea and manpower to build enough divisions. But the PH has so little IC, a tiny Navy and very limited manpower. Yes, please do post your AAR so we can learn the details of this amazing conquest.

I will definitely post a Philippines AAR, but probably a different game and not this one, as this one has already concluded. I could probably write an AAR from reading the Event History, but I don't feel like doing that. Somehow it wouldn't feel the same. :laugh:

Getting this kind of result, as I said, is highly dependent on luck because your success as a small country depends on how good your larger AI-controlled allies are.

The short version of the strategy that I used - refined over several games playing the Philippines - is this:

1. From 1936 on, research nothing but infantry, industry, agriculture, land doctrines, supply, computers, and cryptography. No air force or navy, you don't have the resources for that anyway. You could also research cavalry and artillery, but only if you've researched the above first. Happily, the US will give you blueprints, allowing you to research these easily despite only having one research slot. The best part is the Philippines' research teams are well adapted to industrial research, particularly Elizalde and Manila Electric Company (called Meralco today). :rofl:

MacArthur is skill 7 and is the Philippines' strongest research team. Use him for land doctrine research. However, he will disappear in 1942 no matter what you do. (Think of it as him being recalled to the US.) The Philippine Military Academy (PMA) has the same skill set as MacArthur, but is only skill 3. This isn't such a bad thing since they're cheaper as well.

2. To maximize efficiency, do not create any units or reinforce the Philippine Constabulary (PC) until 1939 at the earliest. Instead, use the first few years to increase the Philippines' cash and supplies stockpiles. Since you are a colony of the US, all Energy, Metal, Rares and Oil that you have over 1000 will be sent to them. Keep this in mind and don't bother getting those resources over 1000. The Philippines has a surplus of Metal - better to trade it to the US for something rather than end up giving it to them for free. :rofl:

Only train units when you've researched 1939 infantry. This is so that you don't have units uselessly eating up your supplies during peacetime, and also so you don't have to upgrade them again and again. The Philippines starts with zero manpower anyway, so the first few years will build up your manpower as well. You could even wait until 1941 infantry, but that is risky.

3. To be even more efficient, put logistics wizards in charge of all your units during peacetime. These are MacArthur, Wainwright, and Lim, and possibly others as well.

4. Watch events going on in the rest of the world. The key event to watch out for is Japan's annexation of French Indochina, which will lead the US to embargo them. This embargo guarantees that Japan will launch Pearl Harbor, usually a few months after.

5. Now, deploy your troops so that every coastal province in the Philippines is defended by at least one unit. Abandon Mindoro and Palawan since they don't have a connection to the rest of the archipelago. The US "Philippine Division" is locked to Manila - you can have them defend Manila while you defend everywhere else. Your units should be Infantry, but Garrisons and Militia are cheaper and you should train those as well. The problem is Garrisons surrender when defeated and Militia are very weak.

6. When the war begins, you must fend off every Japanese assault. It's best to stop them on the beaches where the amphibious penalty is significant for them. But if they do manage to land, it is critical to push them off as fast as possible, before they can reinforce the beachhead. If you defeat the Japanese after they have landed, you can help the Allied war effort by lessening the number of divisions the Japanese have.

7. Keep training infantry. Later in the war, the Japanese will get better at mounting amphibious assaults. One division per province will not be enough to stop them. You need one division on each coastal province and some larger armies to react to any landings.

8. Now, wait for the tide of the war to turn against the Japanese. Watch as the US whittles down the Japanese Navy. When you feel the Japanese navy has been reduced to insignificance, begin to produce convoys and transports. Any ships you build are under threat from Japanese naval bombers on Taiwan, so you may have to move them to Australia as soon as they appear. Research and train marines as well.

9. If the Japanese captured the Netherlands East Indies and Malaya earlier in the war, check how well those conquests are defended. If they are lightly defended as they should be at this stage of the war, take one division and a transport and start claiming those islands for the Philippines. Java, Sumatra, the Malay peninsula and Borneo especially are absurdly rich in resources. These resources shall now be appropriated for the Philippines.

10. If you sense that the Japanese are getting very close to collapse, then it's time. Capture all VP islands in the Pacific (Truk, etc.) Then prepare to land on the Home Islands. You may need to devote several of your best divisions for this. You can take military control of your allies (such as Australia) if you want to use their troops and transports. Make sure the territory is yours, however. ;)

Most of Japan's army is on the mainland, so the Philippines cannot deal with them there. I got lucky because the US also landed in Manchuria while I was in Japan. I was also lucky that for some reason, the surrender event where Japan becomes a US puppet did not fire, so I was able to annex Japan as soon as the last VP was taken. Because seriously, why should the US get the credit when it was the Philippines that took the entire Home Islands? :wacko:

11. For ministers: Aguinaldo is best IMO for Foreign Minister since he is an Ideological Crusader. In 1939, Mabini will become available for Security Minister. He increases manpower growth, which you really need. Tan is good for Chief of the Army as he reduces supply consumption. For Minister of Intelligence, I get Wheeler for his research boost. It can be tempting to get Winant for Intelligence and Fausto or David for Armament Minister because they all increase IC. Unfortunately, the Philippines doesn't have the resources to support all that IC and while the Japanese Navy is still active, trade with the US will be very inefficient.

12. For slider moves, try going full Free Market first. Then move to Hawk Lobby and Standing Army. The Philippines' initial slider positions are really bad for a war...

Also, exactly what version of HoI2 are you playing? I would love to get a copy and try playing the Philippines to see what I might achieve. I once played Poland and annexed Germany - which I thought was impressive - until somebody else played Poland and took all of Asia. Maybe I should try playing Mexico and attack USA? Definitely, your screen shot is the most impressive I've ever seen.

Thank you! That is truly high praise. :)

This is just vanilla HoI2, version 1.3. I really want to find ARMA or Doomsday since they have many features that the original doesn't have. Unfortunately, as I'm sure you're aware, it's very difficult to find a copy of those in the Philippines. :sad:

By the way, I Canadian am living in Angeles City. Let's meet sometine! Maybe we can figure out how to save the Spratlys!

Very best wishes for you and your family at this time of crisis in Manila. You can text me at 0947-736-2690

Thank you again. I live in Manila. How was it over in Angeles? And to think that wasn't even a typhoon! Thankfully, the worst of it is over, although given recent trends, I believe it's only a matter of time until the next big one.

Yes, we need to do something about the Spratlys. The Chinese are going too far for their own good. ;)
 
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Just wanted to additionally ask if you play the other HoI-2 versions Doomsday, Armageddon, or Arsenal of Democracy? Arsenal of Democracy was what I played last until about 2 years ago when my laptop - with game on it - got stolen. I am planning on getting back into it but am not sure which game I should buy this time even though I played all of the HoI-2 series. I don't like the reviews for HoI-3 even with Semper Fi so don't think I'll get that. I thought AoD was pretty good improvement over the previous, as was Doomsday over the earlier HoI-2. Would be nice to get same game you are playing and maybe we can arrange a 2-player thing sometime?

Regarding that. As I said in the last post, I would really like to play DD, ARMA, and AoD as well. However, I can't find them anywhere in the Philippines. Do you know where I can find them?

Of course, maybe I shouldn't be sticking with HoI2, even if it's an expansion, since HoI3 is out. However, I can't find HoI3 either, and as you said, some people actually like 2 more than 3 for some reason.

Yes, a 2-player thing would be nice. :) I don't think many people play HoI in the PH and it might be interesting. My dad has expressed interest in playing HoI as well, but he's too busy all the time with work.

PS: Regarding your plan to play Mexico and conquer the US, I thought of that too. It's so tempting as the US has almost no army at the start despite having the world's largest economy. However, Mexico is too democratic and isolationist at the start to declare war. :(

It would take a few years to move the sliders and build up your army enough to declare war. The US AI generally starts building its army up around 1940. I would consider that time too late for a successful early-game annexation with almost no resistance.
 
Unfortunately, as I'm sure you're aware, it's very difficult to find a copy of those in the Philippines.

THANK YOU for this excellent detailed analysis. I am even more impressed because it was not some kind of sneaky attack on Tokyo but rather was achieved with timing - strike the enemy where their resources are undefended and then where they are weakest while you are relatively safe having waiting for the right moment. All in all, far better than the many players that achieve a beachhead in England after first landing a German paratrooper in an unoccupied coastal province so they can "push in an army" (basically exploiting the AI weakness). Your achievement is very impressive because there was no exploit - just cunning use of the Phillipines Forces. Even with control of Australia, you have a really weak surface fleet that risks annihilation if bad luck befalls you. I doubt the Yanks will escort you around the Pacific, so it is pretty dodgy. And you really can’t afford to lose any troops if a transport gets sunk. I think you really exercised a lot of patience to pull it off.

I just restored my Gamer’sGate account and was able to reload and install Arsenal of Democracy v1.07 (A Hearts of Iron game) which I had bought 2 years ago and quite enjoyed playing until my laptop (with game on it) was stolen. I am very grateful to the people at Gamer’sGate helping me regain access to my account since my memory of all past details had washed away with the many rains that passed in the meantime. I also learned that I can “forever” download that game and also install it on another computer - which may be necessary if this small new laptop causes eyestrain playing. While I like CDs, the safety that Gamer’sGate provided by keeping my earlier purchased game safely in my account with them has become a major selling point for me. I highly recommend you try purchasing the other games you mention from them instead of trying to find a CD here which, as you say, is very difficult. The price is just under P500. Their link is: http://www.gamersgate.com/
 
I would really like to play DD, ARMA, and AoD as well.
HoI2, in my opinion was great, until Doomsday arrived. It solved so many bugs and added much to enjoy. I loved it and literally played it to death (every major country several times). ARMA I never had because - when I finally decided I needed a new game - AoD was out there and, reading the reviews, believed I was going the more popular Forum route by choosing it. I think it is even better than DD was. The only negative is the map colors (my six year old daughter can color better than that!).

Then, having lost my game and shopping around (before I realized I could recover my old Gamer'sGate account) I seriously considered HoI-3 which is much better with Semper Fi added. The map is gorgeous. However, I kept running into one particular criticism - "TOO COMPLICATED!"

DD, ARMA and AoD all present a new learning curve compared to HoI-2. Not sure I would recommend upgrading from HoI-2 directly to HoI-3.

AoD does have a very large Forum which can be useful. I enjoy a good map and intend to get around the problem by now adding IRON CROSS to the game (available online) or a really great sounding MOD called THIRD REICH (free). Both improve the map.

Feel free to call me at 0947 736 2690 if I can be of help. Thanks again for your great explanation regarding the Philippine’s annexing Japan.

When you say “train” like “train Marines” do you mean “build”? I worry that your late building will not leave you with many troops, but it makes sense given your low manpower, saving supplies, and if you can take control of the Aussies. The Brits must hate you if you are taking away their best troops or interfering in Africa/ Middle East by reducing the many Australians usually there.:p

Regarding Mexico, I was thinking start early building as many INF, CAV and Light ARM as possible and about 24 militia. Forget about Navy except transports for the Militia. Build up bombers and ESC fighters only trying to get the longest range possible. Now spend the years necessary to gain high intervention and do whatever possible to be able to declare war. If achieved, DOW down to Panama. The Yanks should hate you by then, but they will be heavily committed in the Pacific and Europe. After D-Day (so you know most of their troops are overseas) attack, taking Panama. Use the militia like kamikazes to take as many undefended US and Canadian beaches as possible from Vancouver to Washington. Depending how they are counter-attacked will clue you in where to reinforce with your INF (when safe using your transports a second time, and the many old DDs to scout the sea zones). Rush your tanks to the Great Lakes and into Canada. Use your CAV to come out of Northern Mexico in two fronts to sweep back the few US holding the beaches and be your first anti-partisan/beach defense units. Then build Garrisons for partisan control in the interior areas.

With luck you might end up with a double front – one around Alaska or a few provinces short, and another from Washington to the Gulf of Labrador – before the Yanks and Canuks can react given most their stuff is far away. Moving with LT ARM and CAV is quite fast, and using ships for the INF is really fast – until the USN returns. If one can do it fast enough – and push over Ottawa and Washington, Mexico might win (?). If really brave, your initial landings could go right up to St. John's, but you got to insure Washington will be clear so you can trace supply.
 
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THANK YOU for this excellent detailed analysis. I am even more impressed because it was not some kind of sneaky attack on Tokyo but rather was achieved with timing - strike the enemy where their resources are undefended and then where they are weakest while you are relatively safe having waiting for the right moment. All in all, far better than the many players that achieve a beachhead in England after first landing a German paratrooper in an unoccupied coastal province so they can "push in an army" (basically exploiting the AI weakness).

Yeah, people call this the mother of gamey actions, though I think it could be worse. After all, what else are paratroopers for? When playing Germany, I use paras to land on the UK myself, although I do not land them on an unoccupied province but rather on an occupied one. Also I make sure I've sunk much of the Royal Navy beforehand, since I still need to bring the main body of the army over. I think that's fair.

Your achievement is very impressive because there was no exploit - just cunning use of the Phillipines Forces. Even with control of Australia, you have a really weak surface fleet that risks annihilation if bad luck befalls you. I doubt the Yanks will escort you around the Pacific, so it is pretty dodgy. And you really can’t afford to lose any troops if a transport gets sunk. I think you really exercised a lot of patience to pull it off.

Thank you. I don't recall now if I used Military Control of Australia, but even if I did, it was only for transports and maybe destroyers to escort them. I did not use any Australian land troops. Now, that (the Philippines taking military control of other countries) is what I'd call a gamey strategy if there ever was one! Because why would Australia or any other country IRL grant control to the Philippines?

Of course, considering how ineffective the AI is, that may be an in-game justification for military control.

Losing even one division while it's embarked on a transport would be irritating for me even if I were playing a great power. As the Philippines, it would be absolutely devastating. I made sure most of the IJN was sunk, but there were still a few Japanese submarines roaming the Pacific...
 
When you say “train” like “train Marines” do you mean “build”? I worry that your late building will not leave you with many troops, but it makes sense given your low manpower, saving supplies, and if you can take control of the Aussies. The Brits must hate you if you are taking away their best troops or interfering in Africa/ Middle East by reducing the many Australians usually there.:p

I felt I had to address this point, so I did so in the previous post. I consider a small country like the Philippines taking control of more powerful countries like Australia to be an even gamier action than landing Fallschirmjagers on Cardiff (even though the game engine allows it for some reason). At least, thank God, they don't allow the Philippines to take military control of the US any more. In previous versions they used to. It's enough to make you go WTF.

Anyway, since I consider it very gamey, if I did do it, I would only borrow Transports at the most. I would not take Aussie troops from the Middle East or elsewhere. Military controlling other countries gives me a headache. As much as possible, I prefer to only control my own country's troops. Even when playing the Great Powers, I usually relinquish military control of my puppets.

And yes, "train" means "build." I try to use the word "train" now for mainly infantry formations, because when you think about it, doesn't it seem strange to be speaking of "building" soldiers? :p

The very late building is deliberate. It maximizes efficiency in supply use, etc. If you trained troops as early as 1936, you'd have to upgrade them later, and then they'd be sitting around doing nothing and consuming supplies for years.

However, the problem is there's a bit of a random element as to when the Japanese declare war. It's always after the US oil embargo, but that itself is random. I've seen the Japanese declare war as early as February 1941. And I only had one or two divisions that time... :D

Regarding Mexico, I was thinking start early building as many INF, CAV and Light ARM as possible and about 24 militia. Forget about Navy except transports for the Militia. Build up bombers and ESC fighters only trying to get the longest range possible. Now spend the years necessary to gain high intervention and do whatever possible to be able to declare war. If achieved, DOW down to Panama. The Yanks should hate you by then, but they will be heavily committed in the Pacific and Europe. After D-Day (so you know most of their troops are overseas) attack, taking Panama. Use the militia like kamikazes to take as many undefended US and Canadian beaches as possible from Vancouver to Washington. Depending how they are counter-attacked will clue you in where to reinforce with your INF (when safe using your transports a second time, and the many old DDs to scout the sea zones). Rush your tanks to the Great Lakes and into Canada. Use your CAV to come out of Northern Mexico in two fronts to sweep back the few US holding the beaches and be your first anti-partisan/beach defense units. Then build Garrisons for partisan control in the interior areas.

With luck you might end up with a double front – one around Alaska or a few provinces short, and another from Washington to the Gulf of Labrador – before the Yanks and Canuks can react given most their stuff is far away. Moving with LT ARM and CAV is quite fast, and using ships for the INF is really fast – until the USN returns. If one can do it fast enough – and push over Ottawa and Washington, Mexico might win (?). If really brave, your initial landings could go right up to St. John's, but you got to insure Washington will be clear so you can trace supply.

Thank you for sharing a possible strategy. I wanted to try having Mexico conquer the US as well, but the problem is that Mexico can't declare war in 1936. And even when the democracy slider has shifted enough to make it possible, the dissent hit would be significant. When do you plan to attack? The US begins to build its military around 1939 IIRC. And once it starts, the buildup is fast. But, before that, they have practically nothing on land. The USN is quite powerful right from the start, though, which poses another problem.

The key to a quick victory over the US is attacking them while their army is almost nonexistent, and then overrunning them so fast that they're not able to build an army in time. The thing is that the US has overseas VPs, so annexation won't be possible...

The way I see it, you must tear out the US's industrial base as fast as possible. Most of the US's IC is on the East Coast, except for some West Coast provinces like Los Angeles, Seattle and San Francisco. Cities in or near the heartland like Detroit, Milwaukee and Chicago also have a lot of IC. You need to get to these as fast as possible. It may be easier said than done, though...
 
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Wow, nice to hear we have filipino gamers. I live in qc by the way

Haha, yeah. I'm always looking for more people who play Paradox games here. I'll PM you.