How is Sweden placed over denmark? Denmark was the ONLY country that could challenge the naval authority of Britian and they aren't considered one the the 8? I think this is a grave overlooking imo. Anybody agree/disagree?
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I think Sweden was militarily superior on land and logistics however. The Swedes has a much larger army at the time. The Danish Naval power however was significant, but poor leadership ruined our chance for greatness 
As I told you in the other therad!
Sweden is the more dominant power on the land etc. Sure I would have loved to see Denmark being focused on as one of the "secoundary majors" like Sweden will be! mainly because of the naval power they have during the start! but this is still possible to get in! the game is not done yet
we just need enough people to think that this would be a good idea ^^
Besides, the minors are playable in the game so you can just bring Denmark to the top yourself
Denmark-Norway*, please don't forget the other half of this nation.
But it has always been so, Dano-Norwegians are terrible soldiers and Swedes are poor sailors and neither state had any chance of winning this independently, Denmark-Norway might've held out against Britain and changed the scenario by keeping the waterways still in the game for France and Sweden might've fared better against Russia, though I doubt it when Denmark-Norway was poised to strike from the other end.
So while Sweden might've been able to beat Denmark-Norway could they land a force, Denmark-Norway would have the ability to more or less force the battles to be on the border between Norway and Sweden, keeping Denmark-Norway's economy, trade and so on going while shutting Sweden out of any overseas goods. The battles in Norway would most likely be two losses for every win for Denmark-Norway, so it'd be a war for attrition that either might win or lose depending on outside interference.
Personally I think Denmark-Norway would win a 1vs1 on attrition, but it'd be a pyrrhic victory because Norway would likely be rather ruined.
So in the end I don't think either deserves to be an 8 apart, if however the union that was tangible at the time occurred it'd deserve an 8th.
But it has always been so, Dano-Norwegians are terrible soldiers and Swedes are poor sailors and neither state had any chance of winning this independently, Denmark-Norway might've held out against Britain and changed the scenario by keeping the waterways still in the game for France and Sweden might've fared better against Russia, though I doubt it when Denmark-Norway was poised to strike from the other end.
So while Sweden might've been able to beat Denmark-Norway could they land a force, Denmark-Norway would have the ability to more or less force the battles to be on the border between Norway and Sweden, keeping Denmark-Norway's economy, trade and so on going while shutting Sweden out of any overseas goods. The battles in Norway would most likely be two losses for every win for Denmark-Norway, so it'd be a war for attrition that either might win or lose depending on outside interference.
Personally I think Denmark-Norway would win a 1vs1 on attrition, but it'd be a pyrrhic victory because Norway would likely be rather ruined.
So in the end I don't think either deserves to be an 8 apart, if however the union that was tangible at the time occurred it'd deserve an 8th.
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Of course, we shouldn't forget our Norwegian brothers! It's easy for us danes to simply assume it was a danish realm Our pride get the better of us ^^
Our pride get the better of us ^^
Well the napoleonic wars provided endless possibilities for nearly everyone, if theres no difference between the big 8 and the others beside goals then (if goals are moddable) you can make Denmark-Norway one of the big countries
I look forward to playing and enjoying Denmark-Norway and Swedens advantages and disadvantages because I find that they are unique and always feel like true underdogs in just about every game. Just because Denmark-Norway isint represented in the big 8 or whatever it is, dosnt mean you cant make it one on your own
True. my only concern would be Denmark-Norway without their naval power (then they will be severely underdog) and instead Sweden might have a boost in their navy.. but lets wait and see.. tweaks can come and go and well as you said we can always take the challenge and pick them anyway
I also look forward to trying some of the minor nations!
It's hardly weird for me to not be interested in buying a game that limits me as a modder, it's not that I want to make Denmark-Norway one of the eight and are throwing a tantrum about them not being so, I specifically said neither Denmark-Norway nor Sweden should be one.
However, if it can't be modded, it's rather useless to buy as a modder, since you'll be bound by the developers favouritism.
Surely it will be moddable, just as easily as all their other games. What makes you think it wouldn't be moddable? Of course it will be moddable....
To put this into perspective:
In 1805 Denmark had 28 ships with >50 guns.
Russia 47.
France 41.
Spain 40.
Netherlands 15.
Portugal 12.
Sweden 12.
And Great Britain 136.
Note that this doesn't differ between seaworthy ships and ships in reserve. For example Spain only had 20 ships of the line that were actually in fighting condition in March 1805 (France all 40), and they had to take a 10 millions florins loan out of the Dutch to get even this far, while the British financial system was able to fund the mobilization of 116 ships of the line.
Sadly I don't have any numbers for Denmark in 1805 but considering how the Danish war efforts ended in the state bankruptcy of 1813 Denmark probably wasn't in a very good position to fully mobilize their fleet for a prolonged amount of time.
So really Denmark alone was far from being able to challenge the RN at all, or even more so than other states.
I wouldn't really see either Denmark or Sweden as a great power of the period but at least Sweden was much more independent and flexible in their diplomatic conduct, even (or especially) after Bernadotte took over. While Denmark might as well be considered a French puppet from 1807-1813.
In 1805 Denmark had 28 ships with >50 guns.
Russia 47.
France 41.
Spain 40.
Netherlands 15.
Portugal 12.
Sweden 12.
And Great Britain 136.
Note that this doesn't differ between seaworthy ships and ships in reserve. For example Spain only had 20 ships of the line that were actually in fighting condition in March 1805 (France all 40), and they had to take a 10 millions florins loan out of the Dutch to get even this far, while the British financial system was able to fund the mobilization of 116 ships of the line.
Sadly I don't have any numbers for Denmark in 1805 but considering how the Danish war efforts ended in the state bankruptcy of 1813 Denmark probably wasn't in a very good position to fully mobilize their fleet for a prolonged amount of time.
So really Denmark alone was far from being able to challenge the RN at all, or even more so than other states.
I wouldn't really see either Denmark or Sweden as a great power of the period but at least Sweden was much more independent and flexible in their diplomatic conduct, even (or especially) after Bernadotte took over. While Denmark might as well be considered a French puppet from 1807-1813.
Well in an earlier interview of NCP II (the former name of this game), I leanred that there will be an America theater. If so, why not include the US in the big 8 so that you guys would stop debating on this issue
Well in an earlier interview of NCP II (the former name of this game), I leanred that there will be an America theater. If so, why not include the US in the big 8 so that you guys would stop debating on this issue
It would be pretty silly to see Americans landing in GB to aid the French. Plus, the former thirteen colonies were not largely populated at the time either, it would be difficult to say that USA is a "big 8", USA only becomes a force to recon with after the Spanish-American war id say.
Besides that, the US didnt have an Army and a pretty crappy Navy at the time. Luckily we held out at Baltimore
You sure you can afford this Birken? I think Keanon said he knew Obama...you dont want to mess with the United States do you? x)
Well in an earlier interview of NCP II (the former name of this game), I leanred that there will be an America theater. If so, why not include the US in the big 8 so that you guys would stop debating on this issue
There won't afaik.
When AGEOD was participating in the project off map boxes were planned for over over seas territory like in other AGEOD games including NCP1.
Paradox removed that feature when they took over because apparently it breaks immersion, huge mistake imo.
While we're at the topic of seapower for example ~1/3 of the British fleet in early 1805 was stationed in territory that isn't present in the game, one has to wonder how these ships will be handled ingame.
It would be pretty silly to see Americans landing in GB to aid the French. Plus, the former thirteen colonies were not largely populated at the time either, it would be difficult to say that USA is a "big 8", USA only becomes a force to recon with after the Spanish-American war id say.
Besides that, the US didnt have an Army and a pretty crappy Navy at the time. Luckily we held out at Baltimore
They don't have to land in GB to cause trouble. A successful invasion of Upper Canada wouldn't be out of the question if actually conducted by a competent leadership, provided that the British are at that time tied down in Europe.
Population was over double that of Sweden, and the US was already a economic power house. The potential for a rapid army expansion was there and actually lagged behind what could have been possible in the War of 1812.