“This England never did, nor never shall,
Lie at the proud foot of a conqueror”

Welcome to the 7th development diary for Europa Universalis IV,
where we talk about the dominant power by the end of the Europa Universalis time frame, the country formerly known as England.
England can be considered both as one of the easier nations to play, but also one of the more challenging nations. That´s a paradox, you say?
Well, it all depends on what you wish to accomplish and what kind of empire you want to create

The unique possibilities of England
What truly makes England unique to play is that the country has natural borders protecting it and that you can strengthen those borders dramatically with rather cheap investments. You can decide to let England get involved in the continent, from a safe position, or choose to isolate England and go overseas. The country also sits on a bloody nice position to control the trade from the Baltic and from North America. So the options are huge for you to take England in plenty of directions when creating your empire.

England’s Dynamic Historical Events
England is has one of the richest and best known histories. That may sound lovely for you guys, but it also means that we have had to work hard when it comes to decisions about historical events to include in Europa Universalis IV. The important countries in EU4 have a lot of events going on, so some of those major historical events have been turned into the starting points of large event chains that we call Dynamic Historical Events.

War of the Roses is an excellent example of Dynamic Historical Events. If England in the 15th century has a ruler without an heir, that means that there is a likelihood of a large event chain beginning. The player has to select who to back for the throne, York or Lancaster. This decision will throw the country into turmoil with various parts declaring for either the red or white rose, and you have to make sure to eliminate the very strong, rather resilient pretenders. What makes this interesting is that this event chain is not an event series that is guaranteed to come every time you play as England. It only occurs if all the necessary underlying factors are fulfilled. When it happens, you won't have planned for it to arrive on schedule, like many people did when they played Europa Universalis II, the last game in the series with a serious focus on historical events. We hope that this variation will gives you rather unique experiences when you play major powers.

The English Civil War will be another major event series that might encounter when you play as England, but we will not spoil it for you here yet.
England also has many smaller DHE, like The War of Captain Jenkin's Ear: if they are rivals with Spain, after 1700, then you can get a casus belli on Spain. Or an event like The Muscovy Trade Company, where if you discover the sea route to Archangelsk, and its owned by the Muscovites, then there is a likelihood of this historical event happening.

England’s Missions & Decisions
We have kept the historical missions that existed in Europa Universalis III and we are expanding them for Europa Universalis IV, so you'll still see missions to conquer Scotland and colonize North America. When it comes to decisions, England still manually have to rely on the Wooden Wall, and make Calais into a Staple Port.

England’s National Ideas
The traditions that England starts with is a small boost in naval morale and a 5% boost to their trading efficiency.
The trading efficiency boost is due to the fact that the economy of England to fund their participation in the Hundred Years War was their taxation of the very profitable wool trade.

The 7 National Ideas for England are:

2. Royal Navy : 25% higher naval force limit, and +10% more combat power for big ships.
3. Eltham Ordinance : +15% higher tax.
4. Secretaries of State : +1 diplomat
5. Navigation Acts : +10% trade income, and +10% more combat power for light ships.
6. Bill of Rights : -1 revolt risk.
7. Reform of Commission Buying : +10% discipline
8. Sick and Hurt Board : -50% Naval Attrition.

Reward: English Ambition
When England has gotten all seven of their National Ideas, they get the bonus of 'English Ambitions' which gives them a +100% on their embargo efficiency.

Here's a screenshot where I've cheated to show a little bit of the idea progress..



Welcome back next week, where we'll talk in detail about the enhancements we've done to the religious aspect of the game!

 

[Chamboozer]

My point was that the in-game bonuses give England an advantage over the other Atlantic big-ship heavy navies, but not the Mediterranean galley-heavy navies, like those of Venice or Aragon.

Huh? It gives them an advantage over everything. That 10% bonus applies whether they are fighting against big ships or against galleys.

 

[Dafool]

Huh? It gives them an advantage over everything. That 10% bonus applies whether they are fighting against big ships or against galleys.

We have no idea what this means though. This could simply be equivalent to a medium sized morale boost in EU3. Honestly, I think you're blowing this waaaay out of proportion, as if PI has revealed England to be unbeatable at sea, when in reality they simply gave them a potential naval boost, something that shouldn't be surprising to anyone.

 

[Chamboozer]

Then you can at least agree that it shouldn't be given in the 15th Century, which has been demonstrated by knowledgeable people to be ahistorical?

 

[Dafool]

Why does it matter if it's given in the 15th century or not? If an England player wants to go the historical route and begin a slow shift towards naval that takes decades or centuries, then fine. Let them. If the player wants to make a radical veer towards naval supremacy, then fine. Let them. Seriously. EU3 never limited England's ability to quickly become a naval power or become a land power instead. There's absolutely nothing different save for an extra bonus.

 

[1alexey]

Then you can at least agree that it shouldn't be given in the 15th Century, which has been demonstrated by knowledgeable people to be ahistorical?

Demonstrated that british big ships, when copareed on 1v1 basis were no better than for other countries?

Where?

 

[unmerged(63836)]

We have no idea what this means though. This could simply be equivalent to a medium sized morale boost in EU3. Honestly, I think you're blowing this waaaay out of proportion, as if PI has revealed England to be unbeatable at sea, when in reality they simply gave them a potential naval boost, something that shouldn't be surprising to anyone.

Well, since there's entire DD devoted to those bonuses (and partially previous DD where country specific traditions and ideas were introduced), it's reasonable to assume that they would matter gameplay-wise, and not just be there for flavour.

 

[Chamboozer]

Why does it matter if it's given in the 15th century or not? If an England player wants to go the historical route and begin a slow shift towards naval that takes decades or centuries, then fine. Let them. If the player wants to make a radical veer towards naval supremacy, then fine. Let them. Seriously. EU3 never limited England's ability to quickly become a naval power or become a land power instead. There's absolutely nothing different save for an extra bonus.

Because it's a historical flavor National Idea, so it's absurd to make it occur in every game 100% of the time at an ahistorical time. Or should we give France an 'absolutism' National Idea in 1550?

Demonstrated that british big ships, when copareed on 1v1 basis were no better than for other countries?

Where?

Here.

That said, it's pretty much absurd, historically, to give the RN a 10% big ship bonus in the 15th C. If any country would deserve that, it might (just might) be Portugal. I recommend N A M Rodger's book, Safeguard, on this point, and the difficulty of using Bigs vs Galleys at the time. Carracks were a partial solution, but it's only with Galleons (mid/late 16th C) that you get a real edge.

Anyway, English naval superiority - as opposed to dominance,which is a different matter - certainly dates from at least the 16th century. They pioneered the use of seaborne artillery, the use of special mountings for naval cannons, the practice of reloading during a battle (Spanish tactics were to fire once, then grapple and board), and in the early 17th century they invented the line of battle tactic. That's a lot of innovations even before their period of 'dominance'.

And on my own knowledge, which is based on this and this.

England's rise to naval prominence began in the middle of the 16th Century, when England perfected bronze gun manufacture. By the latter half of the century it can be legitimately argued that they had a superior navy to the other Atlantic powers, due to innovations in tactics and versatile ship design. England also perfected the design of short-range, extremely heavily armed galleons, which led to what we now know as the ship-of-the-line. These are not things that date from the 15th Century.

 

[Dafool]

Well, since there's entire DD devoted to those bonuses (and partially previous DD where country specific traditions and ideas were introduced), it's reasonable to assume that they would matter gameplay-wise, and not just be there for flavour.

I think we can say for certain that they're there for both gameplay and flavor, but once more, we have nothing to scale these against. It's entirely possible that this bonus isn't in anyway extreme, yet some are assuming that it must be massive. I think it's safe to bet that PI isn't just throwing in insurmountable AI bonuses for the heck of it. Chances are it's a bonus like any other given by an idea or decision.

 

[Katarian]

Then you can at least agree that it shouldn't be given in the 15th Century, which has been demonstrated by knowledgeable people to be ahistorical?

Demonstrate that it is given in the 15th Century. Reread the original post and Johan stated he had cheated to get that screenshot. The only thing we know is you currently need 5 ideas to get the bonus.

 

[Chamboozer]

Demonstrate that it is given in the 15th Century. Reread the original post and Johan stated he had cheated to get that screenshot. The only thing we know is you currently need 5 ideas to get the bonus.

Splitting up the ideas evenly across the timeline gives you one idea every 50 years. Of course it could be anything, but it seems like a reasonable guess that we'll get our first NI between 1470 and 1500.

Another way of doing it: EUIII gave us 12 National Ideas, we got our first one around 10-15 years into the game. With half as many this time around, we can expect our first around 20-30 years in.

It takes a greater stretch of the imagination to believe we won't be getting our first national idea for the first 100 years.

 

[unmerged(63836)]

I think we can say for certain that they're there for both gameplay and flavor, but once more, we have nothing to scale these against. It's entirely possible that this bonus isn't in anyway extreme, yet some are assuming that it must be massive. I think it's safe to bet that PI isn't just throwing in insurmountable AI bonuses for the heck of it. Chances are it's a bonus like any other given by an idea or decision.

I'm sure they'll be balanced pretty well with bonuses that other countries get. Real question is, how significant are country specific bonuses in comparison to generic ideas bonuses. This would not only have serious negative impact on players playing non-historically, but can also make AI inflexible. Sure - we have to wait for more info, but fact that this is presented as one of the more significant features of EU4 is worrying.

How would my absolutist, trading, navy focused, plutocratic, fully protestant Poland controlling 2/5 of the Baltics fare in 18th century, when I would be getting useless NIs for aristocracy/cavalry/noble republic/religious tolerance/etc., while my biggest rival Denmark would get a lot of navy/trade NIs?

Yes - Denmark was naval power in 1444, while Poland was landlocked, but I'm talking about situation where such Poland focuses on the seas for 300 years.

 

[Herr Doctor]

How would my absolutist, trading, navy focused, plutocratic, fully protestant Poland controlling 2/5 of the Baltics fare in 18th century, when I would be getting useless NIs for aristocracy/cavalry/noble republic/religious tolerance/etc., while my biggest rival Denmark would get a lot of navy/trade NIs?

Yes - Denmark was naval power in 1444, while Poland was landlocked, but I'm talking about situation where such Poland focuses on the seas for 300 years.

In case if you want to follow the glorious Danish naval and colonial tradition as Poland you should get in result some pesky British or French invaders coming to your major port (Danzig?), bombing it, sizing your precious navy and taking all your colonies away (at last Ukraine will remain yours probably).

 

[StephenT]

England's rise to naval prominence began in the middle of the 16th Century, when England perfected bronze gun manufacture.

England's rise to naval prominence began in 1410, when Henry V ordered the construction of a new fleet of cannon-armed, state-of-the-art carracks to dominate the English Channel so he could invade France. The Grace Dieu, at 1400 tons, was possibly the largest warship in the world when launched in 1418.

However, after that early start England neglected its navy for another century, until Henry VIII started putting major investments into his fleet again. Still, it shows what would have been possible early on given more government attention.

 

[Chamboozer]

Still, it shows what would have been possible early on given more government attention.

Which, I think, is best simulated through taking a naval idea group. If Paradox is going to guarantee that no matter what happens we get a certain national idea in a certain time period, it should be based entirely on history. Though I would of course prefer more flexibility.

 

[Dafool]

England's rise to naval prominence began in 1410, when Henry V ordered the construction of a new fleet of cannon-armed, state-of-the-art carracks to dominate the English Channel so he could invade France. The Grace Dieu, at 1400 tons, was possibly the largest warship in the world when launched in 1418.

However, after that early start England neglected its navy for another century, until Henry VIII started putting major investments into his fleet again. Still, it shows what would have been possible early on given more government attention.

Once more I agree. The game has never prevented England from being a naval power early on. It shouldn't be impossible, but it shouldn't be forced. Considering that this is purely a bonus, I don't see how anyone can complain. Simply because your ships are a bit better than other nations' does not mean you are suddenly the unchallenged master of the sea. You're still going to have to build ships and invest in naval technology if you want that superiority.

 

[Sotof]

In case if you want to follow the glorious Danish naval and colonial tradition as Poland you should get in result some pesky British or French invaders coming to your major port (Danzig?), bombing it, sizing your precious navy and taking all your colonies away (at last Ukraine will remain yours probably).

Why? What if Poland dominated the eastern Baltic?

 

[unmerged(63836)]

In case if you want to follow the glorious Danish naval and colonial tradition as Poland you should get in result some pesky British or French invaders coming to your major port (Danzig?), bombing it, sizing your precious navy and taking all your colonies away (at last Ukraine will remain yours probably).

Yeah - that would be realistic.

But point still stands - it makes no sense to get NIs written for historical PLC, as totally different Poland from my example. That's quite big flaw.

 

[v1989]

Why? What if Poland dominated the eastern Baltic?

Or even the Sweden.

Honestly, I'm curious how look the whole process of forming the Great Britain.

 

[Herr Doctor]

Why? What if Poland dominated the eastern Baltic?

I was just a bit sarcastic referring to two Battles of Copenhagen in 1800s.

If seriously I think even if Poland would gain good control of the Prussian coasts there is no guarantee that it would go naval and kind of plutocratic as this would require radical social changes close to social revolution. Very bloody one I afraid. And even then there is no grantee that Poland would be more successful in this naval-colonial path than Denmark (again - economy, society, mentality, resources etc).
But in game terms it is usually much easier.

But point still stands - it makes no sense to get NIs written for historical PLC, as totally different Poland from my example. That's quite big flaw.

I agree with you but it is very hard to model all this correctly in game to achieve both historical flavour and allow plausible results. You have to sacrifice something in order to avoid going any of these directs radically.

 

[unmerged(63836)]

I agree with you but it is very hard to model all this correctly in game to achieve both historical flavour and allow plausible results. You have to sacrifice something in order to avoid going any of these directs radically.

Well, I think that me and few other folks have some ideas that could work better at achieving plausibility (but with less 'in your face' flavor) than, hmm anti-sandbox measures (don't want to use certain term beginning with 'd' - it's tabu on this forum now) - you can read them in previous DD thread.