PROPOSAL: New Paradox-game in between Europa Universalis and Victoria

[nett40]

On another sub-thread there was an idea about making a new game about the Revolutionary-era.

Such a new Paradox game would have to take some of the timeline away from EU and Victoria, but I believe that it would make Paradox's historic strategy games much better at representing the world from 1444 to 1991. March of the Eagles is NOT such a game, as it is solely based on Europe and cannot bridge the gap between EU and Victoria.

This new game about the Revolutionary-era should begin with the American Revolution in 1776 and end with the unification of Germany in 1871. The game should be a mix of Europa Universalis and Victoria to better portray the complexity of this era in human history.

The new game would fit in nicely with the other global strategic games, please have a look at the altered game list below:

Europa Universalis = 1444-1775
Well-known epic game describing Exploration, Reformation & Absolutism in depth. A 331 years long timeline with bookmarks so that the player can dive into many different scenarios.

EU/Victoria: Revolutions = 1776-1875
The new Revolutionary game mixing parts of EU4 with Victoria 2 (100 years with bookmarks: American Revolution, French Revolution, Rise of Napoleon, Latin American Revolutions, Revolutions in 1848, Crimean War, American Civil War, Wars of German and Italian Unification).

Victoria: Heart of Darkness = 1876-1936
Paradox game about the New Imperialism era, with all the modern great powers (Germany, Japan, USA, Russia, Great Britain, France, Italy and Austro-Hungary) formed and ready to play the "great game" from the start (60 years without bookmarks).

Hearts of Iron = 1936-1946
Second World War game describing the largets conflict in human history (10 years with bookmarks: Grand campaign, Barbarossa, D-day etc.).

HoI: East vs West = 1946-1991
Long awaited game about the Cold War between NATO and the Warszaw Pact (45 years)

If Paradox included a good game-converter, which easily converts end-savegames into the next PI-game savegame-format, the long era-spanning world-changing game experience that I love is still a possibility...

 

[Lemont Elwood]

I want a proper game for the late 1700s/1800s too, but your proposal has way too long of a timeline for the new game and shortens Victoria down too much.

My counter-proposal:
867-1444 = Crusader Kings
1444-1700 = Europa Universalis
1700-1836 = Empires of the Enlightenment
1836-1900 = Victoria II
1900-1936 = The War to End All Wars
1936-1948 = Hearts of Iron
1948-1991 = East versus West

Empires of the Enlightenment would probably use March of the Eagles combat with Victoria-style economics and politics, while The War to End All Wars would be like Hearts of Iron combat (changed to allow trench warfare) and Victoria economics.

 

[Warbuilder]

My counter-proposal

Imperium 27 BC - 476
Birth of Nations 476 - 867/1066
Crusader Kings 867/1066 - 1444
Europa Universalis 1444 - 1715 (Louis XIV death)
Empires of Enlightenment (good name, thanks!) 1715-1836
Victoria 1836-1936
Hearts of Iron 1929-1948
East Vs. West 1948-1991

 

[kingofnoobs]

If Paradox included a good game-converter, which easily converts end-savegames into the next PI-game savegame-format, the long era-spanning world-changing game experience that I love is still a possibility...

The problem with Game-convertor is that the world wouldn't simply last that long; How many times have you seen a realistic World in EU3? Its usually a big nation that ends up owning the whole world (In my game I usually see France eating up all of Easter Europe). Also, how many players have you seen that play from the very beginning to the very end? I usually get bored after 200 years of my game because I'm the superpower and there isn't much to do... With that said, EUIV might be different since there is a Coalition Mechanic.

Empires of the Enlightenment would probably use March of the Eagles combat with Victoria-style economics and politics, while The War to End All Wars would be like Hearts of Iron combat (changed to allow trench warfare) and Victoria economics.

By Victoria Style Economics, do you mean the POP system too?

 

[BrunoDerKaiser]

My counter-proposal:

The Dance Of Peoples: 476-800
Crusader Kings: 800-1453
Europa Universalis: 1453-1789
March of The Eagles: 1789-1815
Victoria: 1815-1904
The Death of Europe: 1904-1933
Hearts of Iron: 1933-1945
East vs West: 1946-1991
(Optional)Polonia Universalis. Focused in Poland from 10.000BC to 2013AC.

 

[Warbuilder]

My counter-proposal:

The Dance Of Peoples: 476-800
Crusader Kings: 800-1453
Europa Universalis: 1453-1789
March of The Eagles: 1789-1815
Victoria: 1815-1904
The Death of Europe: 1904-1933
Hearts of Iron: 1933-1945
East vs West: 1946-1991
(Optional)Polonia Universalis. Focused in Poland from 10.000BC to 2013AC.

Why Poland?

 

[unmerged(466619)]

I second the idea in the OP; the revolutionary period in EU3 always felt rather tacked-on and unsatisfying compared to the rest of the game.

In re: the start and end dates, 1415 would make quite a good start, I think, as it marked the beginning of Portugal's voyages of discovery, and hence of the age of exploration. As for the end, 1789 (start of the French Revolution), or possibly 1775 (start of the American Revolution), would be good.

If necessary, it might be a good idea to split this game into two, and have one game focusing on the Renaissance/wars of religion and another on the Enlightenment. So my counter-proposal:

Birth of Nations: 400 to 1000 (possibly two games if this proves too long; 750 would be a good date, as by this date the great migrations and Muslim conquests had largely ended, and things were a bit more settled down. The second game could focus more on the Viking invasions).

Crusader Kings: 1000 to 1453

Europa Universalis: 1415 (overlaps are allowed right?) to 1789
[Or: Europa Universalis, 1415 to 1661 (beginning of Louis XIV's majority), Age of Reason, 1661 to 1789]

Victoria: 1775/1789 to 1900

The War of Wars: 1900 to 1935

Hearts of Iron: 1935 to 1945

East vs. West: 1945 to 1990

 

[Lemont Elwood]

The problem with Game-convertor is that the world wouldn't simply last that long; How many times have you seen a realistic World in EU3? Its usually a big nation that ends up owning the whole world (In my game I usually see France eating up all of Easter Europe). Also, how many players have you seen that play from the very beginning to the very end? I usually get bored after 200 years of my game because I'm the superpower and there isn't much to do... With that said, EUIV might be different since there is a Coalition Mechanic.

By Victoria Style Economics, do you mean the POP system too?

Not necessarily. What I kind of mean by it is that you have a ton of resources and develop specific buildings and such, and they actually traded. This is different from CK (where you only have currency), EU (where trade is just an intermediate step to making Ducats), or HOI (where all of the goods and resources are based around warfare).

East vs West will probably be like what I'm thinking of... tons of resource and goods types, and somewhat realistic economics, but without resorting to Pops.

Empires of the Enlightenment needs as much socio-economics as Victoria and should also represent trade and the wealth of colonial empires, while The War to End All Wars needs to be able to simulate the economic side of warfare and the Roaring Twenties.

Warbuilder and Bruno
I was thinking we need some ancient games too, but I wanted to see other people's suggestions for days. So, my reviewed list:

Genesis of Man: 2000 - 27
- In Genesis of Man you play a nascent civilization. Unlike other Paradox games, you don't take the reins of an existing one, but develop one from the ground up. Can you lead your band of hunter-gatherers to glory? I'd recommend having EXTREMELY detailed maps and POP systems, but the maps would be broken up. The map only represents the traditional Old World.

This would be like Cultural Evolution: The Game. Main inspiration for the idea is Guns, Germs, and Steel.

Pax Romana: 27 - 476
- In Pax Romana you play a political family. Things may start out great for the Roman and bad for the barbarian, but beware! Can you deal with fertility crises, civil war, plague, and hordes, or you will succumb to the first Dark Age?

Inspirations are EU: Rome (of course) with CK-like characters and Vicky-like sociology (to represent the Roman population collapse), along with Spengler's The Decline of the West.

Dance of Nations: 476 - 867
- In Dance of Nations you return to Genesis of Man's idea of playing a tribe. How far can your tribe spread? Will you remain pagan and decentralized, or will you remake the Empire?

Crusader Kings: 867 - 1444
- Same as it is, but with more detail about the people. I talk about this in my "Common Man" DLC idea here:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?670023-Future-DLCs&highlight=

Europa Universalis: 1444 - 1700
- In Europa Universalis you play as a state in the age of the Reformation and of colonialism. Can you unite your feudal confederacy into a proper nation-state?

Empires of the Enlightenment: 1700 - 1836]
- In Empires of the Enlightenment you play a state in the age of Washington and Napoleon. It's a time of great social change, a time of empire building, and also a time of great wars. Can you save your colonial empire from collapse, or will you lead it to freedom? Fight as the Emancipator of Peoples, or side with the Ancien Regime?

Victoria: 1836 - 1900
- In Victoria you play a state in the age of imperialism and industrialization. Who will become the leading Great Power? Can you take your country from an agrarian backwater to the workshop of the world?

The War to End All Wars: 1900 - 1936
- In War to End All Wars you play a state during WW1, the prelude, and the aftermath. The novice studies tactics, but the master learns logistics. From the jungle of Tanganyika to the trenches of France, lead your faction to victory. (Factions = Entente, Central) Inspiration is The Campaign for North Africa.

Hearts of Iron: 1936 - 1948
- In Hearts of Iron you play a state during WW2. It's pretty good as is. (Factions = Allies, Axis, Comintern)

East versus West: 1948 - 1991
- In East versus West you play a state during the Cold War (though I would prefer a political faction myself...). Lead your superpower to victory through military and economic might, or forge your own path as a third-way minor. (Alignments = USA, USSR)

The Great Collapse: 1991 - 2100
- We were warned a century ago, but who could have expected it? In The Great Collapse you play as a modern state, beginning in recent history but soon diverging into a new Dark Age as fertility rates fall across Europe and the Middle East. Can you save your country from near-destruction at the hands of economic depression and population implosion, or will you take the Third World to glory? Inspiration is How Civilizations Die.

 

[Mattobro]

The Great Collapse: 1991 - 2100
- We were warned a century ago, but who could have expected it? In The Great Collapse you play as a modern state, beginning in recent history but soon diverging into a new Dark Age as fertility rates fall across Europe and the Middle East. Can you save your country from near-destruction at the hands of economic depression and population implosion, or will you take the Third World to glory? Inspiration is How Civilizations Die.

I like this idea.

 

[Lemont Elwood]

Well, my personal opinions are that Muslims are going to overrun Europe, and then everything is going to collapse in both Europe and the Middle East. America will plunge into a dark decline and bring China and Japan, giving Latin America and Southern Asia a chance to rise.

In the end we'll become dominated by Latin America and Southern Asia, Europe and the Middle East will be chaotic, and Africa will be like it has been since the beginning of time.

Even if a person disagrees with that prediction, it makes for an interesting "sci-fi" scenario.

 

[Jokurr]

I’m not really sure if I like the idea of splitting up the V2 era into two games as that game’s time period is short enough as it is. However I do like the idea of cutting off EU’s timeline to the early 18th century and adding in an extra game starting in the early 18th century and ending in 1836. The 18th century always seems to get sorely neglected in the EU games (I think this is mainly due to a large number of players having the compulsive habit of starting as early as possible), yet it is one of my favourite centuries of history. I’m sure I’m not alone in that opinion.

 

[unmerged(405910)]

Why Poland?

Because Poland is a special and unique snowflake among countries that needs an entirely new and special game to properly portray its intricate politics and the general awesomeness of pierogi and winged hussars.

At least that's what I'm able to understand from Poland-threads before they devolve into nationalistic ranting and/or I start asphyxiating.

 

[Lemont Elwood]

I want a new transportation system added to Victoria. If that was added along with a few more changes, then we could have a good Great War.

 

[unmerged(150945)]

DINOSAUR KINGS: 230-60 MYA


Mesopotamia Universalis: 2334 - 550 BC
Persia Universalis: 559 - 331 BC
Macedonia Universalis: 336 - 218 BC
Roma Universalis: 218 BC - 476 AD
Regnum Barbarorum: 235 - 1000 AD
Crusader Kings: 867 - 1444 AD
Europa Universalis: 1444 - 1821 AD
March of the Eagles: 1789 - 1830 AD
Victoria: 1825 - 1935 AD
Hearts of Iron: 1930 - 1950 AD
East vs West: 1946 - 2000 AD
Global Civilizations: 2000-2100 AD

 

[Pellaken]

so, like this:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?664235-Proposal-for-a-new-game.

 

[Delta107]

March of the Eagles is such a game. This small period was dominated by one single theater which dominated the future and that was Europe. If you take a notice of the starting Vic 2 technology names there is a lot of references to the Napoleonic Wars.

 

[nett40]

Proposal/petition for Paradox to examine the possibility of creating a new game, to be potentially called "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" or LEF for short. The title should be displayed in such a way that the word "Liberté" appears much larger, and above the other 2, and the cover should have a picture clearly associated with the US Revolution, in the style of "Liberty"

September 14th 1752 (date the UK adopted the Gregorian calendar) or, January 1st 1753, the first New Years after this, and, also happens to be the minimum date possible in an SQL server.

EU IV, when the next expansion comes out, would now end on that date.

The currency would be the Maria Theresa thaler

Would cover the following events:

The French-Indian wars (Start point)
Seven Years War (DLC3: Start point)
Russo Turkish war
Partitions of Poland
US War of Independence (Start point)
US becomes Independent (DLC3: Start point)
French Revolution (DLC2: Start point)
Napoleon as First Consul (DLC2: Start point)
Emperor Napoleon (Start point)
South American Independence
War of 1812
Bourbon Restoration (DLC4: Start point)
100 Days (DLC4: Start point)
Concert of Europe (DLC1: Start point)
Greek war of Independence (DLC5: Start point)
Belgian Revolution (DLC5: Start point)

Why leave out the Revolutions in 1848-49 and the American Civil War in 1861-65, which was viewed by many Southerners/Dixies as the second war of independence?

Btw. The French and Indian War (1754–1763) is the American name for the North American theater of the Seven Years' War. A global conflict between Britain and France that doesn't need to be in a game about the revolutionary era, because it would work much better as the grand finale of the Europa Universalis game.

The game would end on June 20th, 1837, with the crowning of Queen Victoria.

Victoria II, when the next expansion comes out, or, Victoria III, would now begin on this date.

Why limit the end-date of the revolutionary era to keep the start date of Victoria's coronation, if you feel we need a game inbetween Victoria and Europa Universalis, which portrays the many revolutions that occured between 1776-1870 in a better and more realistic way. Then you can call Victoria 3 something else. I think "Heart of Darkness" or "A Place In The Sun" would be good titles, since Vic3 would deal with the New Imperialism era.

Paradox would also begin examining the possibility of a converter from EU IV to the new game to Victoria II/III and examine changing the start/end dates of those two other games, as to ...

Good idea, I would love for a good converter to be included in EU 4, so that I can continue my global achievements in Victoria 2 Heart of Darkness.

Why?
The US Rev and the Napoleonic era are both large enough and important enough to deserve more than being shuffled to the near-end of the EU series. Both are interesting enough to attract their own playerbase, and, with more of a focus, a single game could take in both of these wars, and bridge the gap between EU and Victoria. If successful, further efforts could be made for games set during other time periods, such as in between EU and CK* and between Victoria and HoI**

So are the revolutions in 1848. I believe that the new game should begin in 1776, this allows for the Seven Years War (known as the French Indian War in North America) to be the final chapter in Europa Universalis. Many historians feel that that war could be described as the first real world war as the French and British battled eachother all around the globe. In the Americas, in India and in Europe of course.

I think the natural end for the liberal-revolutionary era would be the national unifications of Italy and Germany around 1870, which also brought about a whole new world order. Which could be nicely portrayed in a game without bookmarks like Vic2. If Vic3 (Heart of Darkness 2) starts in 1876 then the Great Powers would all exist and be playable from the beginning of the game. Btw. the world experienced one of its longest periods of peace between the Great Powers of the world from 1871 to 1914.

March of the Eagles is such a game. This small period was dominated by one single theater which dominated the future and that was Europe. If you take a notice of the starting Vic 2 technology names there is a lot of references to the Napoleonic Wars.

No, March of the Eagles is not such a game. It lacks the global touch.

How do I convert a game from EU4 to March of the Eagles and then to Victoria 2, if I play as the Mughals or China?

 

[unmerged(150945)]

All of the games should end after the starting date of the next game (as in CKII's end at 1453, or HOI3's end at, I think, 1948/1950), rather than exactly on the start date.

 

[Macdon]

I'd rather a new series concentrating on the dark ages or the period between EU: Rome (Or just rome if they wanted to differentiate the series) and Crusader Kings 2. It could concentrate on migration and barbarian tribes with the player having to deal with Britannia on its own against Barbarians, The Byzantine Empire being the last place of civilization and of course Charlemagne uniting Europe. Depending on how far back it will be, it could include
fall of Rome, even when it separated into East and west, the birth of the papacy or the arrival of Attila the Hun.

 

[meowmeow12345]

Devs NEVER accept proposals, and for good reason, as unless you have several 50,000 dollars to fund the game, they can't make it.