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Hello, I'm Crusader Kings II developer Goosecreature. You may remember me from such Developer Diaries as "Events and Decisions" and "The Heathens are Coming." Today I'll be talking a bit about - you guessed it - the events and decisions of The Old Gods. This expansion will introduce many of these and not just for the Vikings.

As a Norse Pagan, you can hold a blot every nine years during winter. This is a good way of making your vassals like you more, and it is somewhat similar to a feast with one big difference – the human sacrifice. During a blot, four random prisoners will be brought up from your dungeon and you will have to decide whether or not to sacrifice them to the Allfather for prestige and piety. If you have no prisoners, some nameless thralls will be sacrificed instead but this won't bring you nearly as much renown. Anyone can be sacrificed, including close family members, but you will earn extra piety if your victim is a Christian or a Muslim. These are harsh times and the world is not a friendly place.

View attachment CKII_ToG_DD_05_Blot_Sacrifice.jpg

Another way of increasing your prestige is to commission a runestone. This can be done only once in a character's lifetime, and you can choose to devote it either to yourself or one of your parents. The Scandinavian dueling tradition of holmgång is also in the game, and Norse characters can, under certain circumstances, challenge each other to single combat on an isolated islet. There are also events for Norse characters leaving to join the Varangian Guard, the discovery of Greenland and Vinland, characters gaining the Viking or Berserker traits, the appearance of the Jomsvikings and the Seljuks, völur (mystic seers) joining your court, and many more.

View attachment CKII_ToG_DD_05_Holmgang.jpg

The Mongols will have a decision to hold the nerge, a great hunt in which most of their army participates. This is in essence a massive military training exercise that sees the different wings of the Mongol army coordinating maneuvers and driving wildlife before them in close formation. Once encircled, the wildlife is killed and the army gains both provisions and invaluable experience working together as a single fighting force. Doing this will give your armies a morale boost.

Suomenusko pagans will be able to hold the Ukon Juhla festival, where they worship the god Ukko in the hope of improving their harvests. For Romuva pagans, the Užgavenes festival can be held in spring, where effigies to winter are burnt and the coming of summer is celebrated. Finally, Slavic pagans can hold a festival in the name of the god Jarilo, in which a random vassal is given the honor of representing Jarilo and paraded around wearing bells and other glamorous clothing.

View attachment CKII_ToG_DD_05_Jarilo.jpg

This doesn't cover everything, but as I wanted to write a bit about something else, it will have to do for now.

There have been a lot of requests for us to go into more detail on the Zoroastrians, which is something we hadn't originally planned to do for the Dev Diaries. In order to please YOU (yes, you in particular), the next part of this diary will be devoted to them.

For those who aren't familiar with it, Zoroastrianism is an ancient religion that originated in Persia. It predates the Abrahamic faiths by quite a bit, and was the state religion of the Achaemenid, Parthian and Sassanid empires. Its decline as a major religion came with the Arab invasion of Persia and the spread of Islam in the 7th century, but pockets would still remain in the Central Asian hinterlands of the former Sassanid Empire centuries later.

View attachment CKII_ToG_DD_05_Zoroastrian_Persia.jpg

By 867, the common folk in several parts of Persia still cling to Zoroastrianism but they are the subjects of Muslim rulers and their conversion to the Mohammedan faith is only a matter of time. Just north of these domains, along the eastern shores of the Caspian Sea, Satrap Vandad of the Karen dynasty rules the last independent Zoroastrian realm on the map. This is a challenging starting position and reclaiming Persia and its holy sites for the Zoroastrian faith will not be easy, but it can be done.

Zoroastrianism is not a member of the Pagan religious group, and so they have no need to reform their religion. They will start the game in 867 without a High Priest, but if you hold the Persian Empire there is a decision to restore the position of the Moabadan-Moabad (the Priest of Priests). Just like the Pope, this priest can grant divorces and sanction invasions against other Zoroastrian realms. You'll probably be the only one at this point, so this likely won't do you much good unless your carefully built Zoroastrian empire fragments in civil war.

Also, Zoroastrian rulers are able to enter holy marriages with close relatives of the opposite gender. Such a sacred union will increase their standing among vassals, but producing a healthy heir may become a problem... fortunately, you can always fall back on your concubines for that.

View attachment CKII_ToG_DD_05_The_Zoroastrian_Church.jpg

If you manage to stage a miraculous Zoroastrian recovery and reclaim the Persian Empire, you will have the option of declaring yourself the Saoshyant, the chosen savior of the world mentioned in prophecy by Zoroaster himself. This will not only earn you a new nickname, but you will also get a new trait that significantly boosts the opinion of all Zoroastrian characters towards you. All future descendants of the Saoshyant will also get a less powerful version of this trait, even if they convert to a different religion.

That's all I have for now. I hope you'll have a pleasant Wednesday!
 
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Can christian scandinavians declare viking invasions and rise runestones as they could historically or is that just for norse pagans?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnut_the_Great#Conquest_of_England

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jelling_stones

Well this was right around the time where they were just converting to Christianity, there were still plenty of pagans around and communicating in Latin and through church preaching was not common yet. If it should make sense for christian Scandinavians they would need to have made rune-stones some time after their conversion, the ones that were made were more of a remnant of an abandoned practice.

Same thing with the invasions, the church simply wouldn't approve. Cnut the Great didn't originally invade England, his father Sweyn Forkbeard did. Sweyn was considered a bad christian, and suspected of really being a pagan. Again its more of a remnant of the old way of things they are abandoning, not something that should be allowed for a christian Scandinavian, not unless you were making a special rule that it was alright for 1-2 generations after conversion.
 
So, drop half the letters from the name, seemingly at random to an outsider, and then add one of a number of endings, also seemingly at random?
:p

I suppose it makes as much sense as some of the medieval English ones...

There are endings called word-forming suffixes. All the languages (that I know about) have them. They all make sense to the native speakers, of course.
 
Is there some cultural or national origin to everybody's fascination with the Norse paganism? I'm a bit frustrated that it's getting the most attention and that there is a huge gap between the love it's getting and the love some other forms of paganism are getting. But I'm not the best CK2 player to sample an opinion from anyway, because I don't even really care about playing pagan. I wanted them to add flavor to converting the pagans (other than just a CB) and whatnot. It's not that I'm Christian or anything (I'm atheist), but I usually like playing in major states like England, France, the HRE, Byzantium, Egypt, etc. Northern Europe is a bit blah for me....
 
Did Cnut ask? At any rate, it would make sense for certain things to not change right when a character changes religion, but wait a generation or two. However I doubt Paradox will do that because it would be a non-trivial amount of work, and a substantial amount of data to track for a not huge benefit, plus there would need to be new UI to convey that information.
In CK2 terms Cnut didn't "invade" England, he pressed the claim to the kingdom that he had inherited from his father.
 
Is there some cultural or national origin to everybody's fascination with the Norse paganism? I'm a bit frustrated that it's getting the most attention and that there is a huge gap between the love it's getting and the love some other forms of paganism are getting. But I'm not the best CK2 player to sample an opinion from anyway, because I don't even really care about playing pagan. I wanted them to add flavor to converting the pagans (other than just a CB) and whatnot. It's not that I'm Christian or anything (I'm atheist), but I usually like playing in major states like England, France, the HRE, Byzantium, Egypt, etc. Northern Europe is a bit blah for me....
Paradox is a Swedish company. There are stories and things that aggrandize the vikings, who were Norse pagans. No telling which is a bigger part of the reason.
 
Well this was right around the time where they were just converting to Christianity, there were still plenty of pagans around and communicating in Latin and through church preaching was not common yet. If it should make sense for christian Scandinavians they would need to have made rune-stones some time after their conversion, the ones that were made were more of a remnant of an abandoned practice.

Same thing with the invasions, the church simply wouldn't approve. Cnut the Great didn't originally invade England, his father Sweyn Forkbeard did. Sweyn was considered a bad christian, and suspected of really being a pagan. Again its more of a remnant of the old way of things they are abandoning, not something that should be allowed for a christian Scandinavian, not unless you were making a special rule that it was alright for 1-2 generations after conversion.

yeah, I guess you are right.
In gaming context it would also be rather useless to try to baptize the heathens if the only change would be that you loose som places you can declare holy war against.
Forgive me my thinking error.
 
Is there some cultural or national origin to everybody's fascination with the Norse paganism? I'm a bit frustrated that it's getting the most attention and that there is a huge gap between the love it's getting and the love some other forms of paganism are getting. But I'm not the best CK2 player to sample an opinion from anyway, because I don't even really care about playing pagan. I wanted them to add flavor to converting the pagans (other than just a CB) and whatnot. It's not that I'm Christian or anything (I'm atheist), but I usually like playing in major states like England, France, the HRE, Byzantium, Egypt, etc. Northern Europe is a bit blah for me....

Vikings/Scandanavians owned about a third of England at one point and were a substantial impetuous to it being united as one kingdom. They also had a fair impact on Ireland and France and contributed to the development of the Russian states. Just read up on them sometime.

There is also considerably more historical material on the activities of the Norse than say the Finnish or Baltic pagans.

Oh yes, and the Tengri have the mongol take control of every county in a kingdom with a one year truce CB. That is very powerful and does beg the question as to how much extra stuff beyond that they really would use.
 
There is also considerably more historical material on the activities of the Norse than say the Finnish or Baltic pagans.

This. Information on the Finnish/Baltic pagans is really sparse, if not completely nonexistant, and a vast majority of what is there were written by Christian missionaries whom view on the matter might have been a little biased. The Norse have a wealth of information by comparison.
 
Do you need the SoI DLC to play a Zoroastrian ruler?

I presume they just reused the interface, so SoI shouldn't be needed. Tough I hope they'll change the buttons' colour to something else not green. Green fits the Muslim UI better and would make the Zoroastrians more unique, graphically speaking.
 
This. Information on the Finnish/Baltic pagans is really sparse, if not completely nonexistant, and a vast majority of what is there were written by Christian missionaries whom view on the matter might have been a little biased. The Norse have a wealth of information by comparison.
This doesn't matter at all. You don't need a library to create a raid mechanic or few flavour events. For the purpose of the game, knowing the background and based on wiki alone there could be made interesting additions to each pagans making them unique and interesting to play. Or do you think that one flavour party (blot or other events like it) needs that much research? Because that's all the Romuva, Slav and Suomenusko get by now (I'm talking about unique features).
 
This doesn't matter at all. You don't need a library to create a raid mechanic or few flavour events. For the purpose of the game, knowing the background and based on wiki alone there could be made interesting additions to each pagans making them unique and interesting to play. Or do you think that one flavour party (blot or other events like it) needs that much research? Because that's all the Romuva, Slav and Suomenusko get by now (I'm talking about unique features).
I was under the impression all pagans could raid.
 
I was under the impression all pagans could raid.
Or do you think that one flavour party (blot or other events like it) needs that much research? Because that's all the Romuva, Slav and Suomenusko get by now (I'm talking about unique features).
I was talking about unique options. Here's how it is now:

NORSE
1) Mandatory gavelkind succesion, more independent vassals, concubins
2) Raiding neighbour provinces + option of raiding all coastal areas, no matter how distant
3) Pagan reformation plus Fylkir= serving as both secular ruler and religious leader
4) Subjugation CB
5) Pagan Conquest CB
6) Offensive religion: prestige loss while in peace for too long or not raiding
7) Prepared Invasion CB
8) Traversible rivers
9) Flavour events: Varangian Guard
10) Flavour events: Geographic discoveries
11) Flavour events: Viking and berserker traits
12) Flavour events: Völur (mystic seers) joining your court
13) Blot every 9 years with a human sacrifice
14) Runestone to yourself or one of your parents
15) Dueling tradition of holmgång (events)
16) Norse Unit DLC
17) Norse Portrait DLC

ROMUVA
1) Mandatory gavelkind succesion, more independent vassals, concubins
2) Pagan reformation
3) Subjugation CB
4) Pagan Conquest CB
5) Defensive religion: defensive bonuses when fighting in provinces with their own religion
6) Raiding
7) Užgavenes festival can be held in spring, where effigies to winter are burnt and the coming of summer is celebrated

Unique things are bolded. The list is the same for Suomenusko and Slav, just with a different festival.
 
Is there some cultural or national origin to everybody's fascination with the Norse paganism?

Cultural in the sense that Vikings are all over books, television, movies and video games, yes, particularly in English/American works. Mongols are reasonably common, while about the only thing most people know Zoroastrianism is they might know Freddy Mercury was raised one. Balts and Fins? Might appear in a work focusing on the Teutonic Knights.
 
And in music - I don't listen to this genre at all but there quite a lot of metal bands which like the idea of Mighty Vikings Smashing Stupid Christians. Or at least from a layman's point of view.
 
And in music - I don't listen to this genre at all but there quite a lot of metal bands which like the idea of Mighty Vikings Smashing Stupid Christians. Or at least from a layman's point of view.

Yeah, those musicians doesn't know what they're talking about, but that doesn't mean you can make a trillion threads on the same subject "I think my historical heritage, *insert nationalistic agenda*, won't have more than one unique feature" over and over again. Can we not wait two more weeks until we draw any assumption that there won't be more features for the "other" pagans? :)