[MEIOU] SavoyAAR Reality-show

[DensleyBlair]

This is the first time I've realised Napoli isn't part of Epirus - those colours are very similar.

I'd like to see some neater borders - maybe release the Danish lands as vassals? Then you push east and set up some nice crusader states.

I'm looking forward to seeing where you go from here - as Sirk says, a big crossroads is coming up.

 

[unmerged(717611)]

"leaving to" or "living in", but not "leaving in", you are right... :blush:
corrected, thanks.

I will try not to write updates at 11:30 with a baby on my knees anymore

The Path Occitania -> France -> UEF and the path capital move to Turin -> Piedmont/Sardinia -> Italy both are tempting.
On the long term, with already 2 (Saxony, Saluzzo) and soon 3 (Round XVI) electors as vassals, I might not be able to form Italy before becoming HRE, so the Occitania/France path seems way more tempting corewise.
Moreover, the new unions acquired Round XVI might change my vision of the thing, since inheritance would change my culture pies...

Anyway, Philibert is not a skilled administrator, so he admits he can't perfectly understand the impact of such decision, and he won't take any.
His son Louis might make the T-move (Turin or Toulouse), it is undecided yet (2 years into Round XVII)

(The Turin option is not available before Round XVI).

Question: if I turn to Occitania, since Toulouse is not in the HRE, I will probably have to leave the Empire too? How can I add core provinces to the HRE? MY relations with Emperor Bohemia are great (190+) but there is no local/national decision. Do I have to wait to be the Emperor to do so?

 

[unmerged(717611)]

This is the first time I've realised Napoli isn't part of Epirus - those colours are very similar.

I'd like to see some neater borders - maybe release the Danish lands as vassals? Then you push east and set up some nice crusader states.

I'm looking forward to seeing where you go from here - as Sirk says, a big crossroads is coming up.

Napoli holdings in Greece have been sized by Epirus (war dynamics) a long time ago. They have a small holding in Turkey though, that they acquired during a crusade against the Ottomans.

Danish lands can't be released: the south (imperial) part is core (or will be during the next two rounds), including the CoT of Lubeck, and Denmark still exists (though its existence is suffering from English and Swedish appetites). The only way to make it cleaner in that area would be to DOW Denmark / Sweden to generate a nice local holding...

Several vassals will be released at the beginning of Round XVI since Savoy inherited one of its largest unions (I won't say which one. it is not Lorraine nor Hohenholstuff). The infamy spared releasing these vassals had to be converted into land...

One thing is certain, the two next rounds will change the destiny of Savoy

 

[SirkTheMonkey]

Question: if I turn to Occitania, since Toulouse is not in the HRE, I will probably have to leave the Empire too? How can I add core provinces to the HRE? MY relations with Emperor Bohemia are great (190+) but there is no local/national decision. Do I have to wait to be the Emperor to do so?

Yeah, a capital shift to Toulouse would remove you from the Empire. There's no way to add provinces to the HRE outside of Germany or Northern Italy. Of course, a quick spot of modding could fix the issue.

 

[unmerged(717611)]

Then another reason not to change the nation to Occitania before inheriting Lorraine and other HRE unions...

 

[unmerged(717611)]

Round XV (1469-1474): An Offensive warrior

Ray: GOOOOOOOOOOD Evening everyone and Welcome to "BIG RULER". I'm Ray Porter, and I am here with George I. Joe and B. Rene Daid to help you all follow that alternative history! This season, we are following Savoy. Last time, Philibert I ended the war with England, and except for a short war with Napoli, spent the entire round recovering. We ended Round XIV as Philibert declared war on Syria, so today's show will be exciting! Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome Philibert I de Savoie, Roi de Savoie et des Arpitans, Rei d'Aragó, Rìghrean na h-Alba, Knjaže Bălgarija, Δεσπότης της Ηπείρου, Duc de Lorraine, Graft von Hohenzollern.

Philibert: Good evening Ray.

George: Philibert, you spent last round waiting for the war you'll choose, and this is it. You've choose to take the war to Syria. Why?

Philibert: My Grand-Father Charles has been the first one to take the war to the Holy Land, but he died doing it. My father and my brother were not fighters, so nothing has been done since the Mamluks capitulation of 1415, more than fifty years ago...

Ray: Do you expect to compensate half a century of disinterest in a few years?

Philibert: I do.

George: What are your targets for this war?

Philibert: The seashore. Anazah capital is in Dimashq, so any land we may take is the seashore, both North -up to Antakya- and South, with Naqab and its harbor on the Red Sea.

Ray: Isn't Beyrouth on the way?

Philibert: It is, but the Mamluks will be the next ones.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ray: You heard Philibert dear listeners, in tonight's round, Savoy is going to fight successively Anazah and the Mamluks!

George: it is hardly going to be different from the Mamlukian war of 1412, since the Mamluks collapsed into several small entities, including Anazah.

Ray: Probably even easier, since it is going to be two separate and successive wars. Anazah is already fighting Hedjaz though, when Savoy troops cross their borders.

George: Yes, the Syrian state is not down yet, but fighting Savoy was absolutely not on their to-do list... Here is the situation after nine months of war.

Ray: Anazah capitulated to Hedjaz, but Savoy progress are quick, only slowed down by a few rebels armies

George: Actually, their advance is helped by these rebels. They take care of the loyalist troops, and start the sieges of the main fortresses. The garrisons are fast to surrender to Savoy.

Ray: still, we'll have to wait another year before peace is here.

George: but this is a good one.

Ray: Won't the other European powers be pissed by such annexations?

George: No, this is a holy war... No one will blame them for that.

Ray: Now it is time for the Mamluks, right?

George: Savoy can't attack right now.

Ray: Why that?

George: For the last forty years, Makuria and the Mamluks have been in a long war, with very slow progress. But peace should come soon, since Makuria controls all Mamluk fortresses but Beyrouth. Savoy can't go to war in these conditions, without fighting Makuria simlutaneously, and there is no way for them to do so.

Ray: But the war has been on for forty years, there is no reason it ends up anytime soon.

George: The war has been undecided for more than thirty years, but now, Mamluks capitulation is the only option. Waiting for that, Savoy can regroup and prepare the invasion.

Ray: It seems that you were right. Peace occurs in July 1473, nearly two years after the Anazahean capitulation. Mamluks are attacked the next day.

George: Philibert needs to have its troops in place as fast as possible, to prevent the Mamluks from regrouping. Right now the Mamluks have no army and barely any garrisons to defend their forts.

Ray: The only counter time is this declaration of war Philibert just received.

George: Indeed. Only a few days into the war with the Mamluks, a Muslim alliance led by Dulkadir and containing Hamid and Hedjaz attacks Savoy.

Ray: How is it going to affect the war with the Mamluks?

George: Epirus and the other partners of Savoy can take care of Hamid. Dulkadir is not going to be a real threat, so the army taking care of Beyrouth will be able to turn North to defend against Dulkadir as soon as they capture the fortress. Hedjaz is trouble though, as they own nearly the entire Arabic peninsula and are the real regional power. Savoy only keep a small army to defend against Hedjaz, while the main force goes to Egypt. The idea is to end the war with the Mamluks quickly, to focus on Hedjaz afterward.

Ray: Peace is achieved in November 1473, resulting in the quasi-annexation of the Mamluks by Savoy, after a 4-months war.

George: Now they can focus on Hedjaz, let's have a look at the situation. Savoy and its allies still progress slowly in the three war zones.

Ray: But with the Savoyard troops back from Egypt, this is going to change quickly.

George: Indeed. Hedjaz has to be peaced out first and quickly, since it is the most powerful opponent.

Ray: This is done six months later. Hedjaz then Dulkadir are peaced out in June 1474.

George: Here is a map of the Savoyard Asia, with a mark of the latest known front line.

.

Ray: Now Philibert can celebrate. His aim for this round was to unite Alexandria and Jerusalem. This has been done, while capturing some nice peace of land there. Actually, the whole sea shore from Libya to Turkey is under Savoyard control!

George: And we only are mid-round!

Ray: Indeed. Philibert is very proud of himself. He celebrates very much during the party of new year's eve.

George: Maybe too much. He dies during the night.

Ray: Scotland and Epirus inherited! I'm sure this was the last two thrones Louis would want to abandon! We'll have to figure out what he does with it in the next round!

George: Louis is more of a "complete" ruler than his father. We'll have to see if he follows his father offensive path, or his grand-father reforms strategy...

Ray: This is another reason not to miss the next episode of BIG RULER!

 

[aniuby]

So you're going to click "Release as vassal" now for Scotland and Epirus, aren't you? Such a shame to give away all that territory, though no doubt it would quickly become a rebel-infested wasteland. Do you get the infamy reduction for releasing new vassals? If that's the case you could actually go on a conquering spree before letting them go. It's too bad you inherited the unions you plan to give up, rather than those which you'd allow yourself to keep, although it may have something to do with the length of the union and the amount of 'trust' between the countries.

I don't see what's particularly 'complete' about Louis, but I guess time will tell. And I find it quite hilarious that someone can appear on the 'Big Ruler' programme and promptly drop dead shortly after, and no one bats an eyelid - I suppose it would be even weirder if they complained as to why they had to die so soon.

 

[unmerged(717611)]

So you're going to click "Release as vassal" now for Scotland and Epirus, aren't you? Such a shame to give away all that territory, though no doubt it would quickly become a rebel-infested wasteland.

It is trickier than that. RP-wise, I can't release Scotland and Epirus since they just asked for their disbanding, but I can release vassals in these lands. The problem comes from the non-cores: half of Scotland is non-cored English land. It would require 8 diplomats to sell the provinces to a released Scotland one by one, and even if I do, rebels would pop-up there without warning me (since it would be Scotland) and Scotland won't be able to deal with it.... Anyway, inheriting Scotland and Epirus (why not Lorraine and Aragon???) took me by surprise, so I spent some time doing "strategical vassal release planning", which explains the lack of a traditional "state of the nation" review at the end of the round...

Do you get the infamy reduction for releasing new vassals? If that's the case you could actually go on a conquering spree before letting them go.

I just can say after one year spent releasing vassals + selling them lands, my infamy was down to 12/34... :unsure:

It's too bad you inherited the unions you plan to give up, rather than those which you'd allow yourself to keep, although it may have something to do with the length of the union and the amount of 'trust' between the countries.

length, trust, relation, difference of prestige, infamy, size... and LUCK.
When Philibert died, I had relations of 190+ with all 6 unions, and all unions had been on for several decades. The most plausible PU to inherits was Lorraine, because of its size and length of the union (>100 years!). But I guess Epirus and Scotland (with a lot of non-cores so probably a lot of rebels) had low prestige and/or economy (versus Lorraine with 1 CoT and Aragon with 2) so even if they were big, I got them...
My strategy was to give them lands to make them big and therefore reduce the chance of inheriting them, but maybe by forcing them to grow I made them unstable, therefore way more likely to be inherited? Not sure...

I don't see what's particularly 'complete' about Louis, but I guess time will tell. And I find it quite hilarious that someone can appear on the 'Big Ruler' programme and promptly drop dead shortly after, and no one bats an eyelid - I suppose it would be even weirder if they complained as to why they had to die so soon.

"Complete" is not the correct term I guess. "Balanced" is a better term. Louis is average (5), and properly balanced (4-5-6). The previous rulers were not balanced, Philibert was a poor administrator, Amedee VII and FH were pure administrators. The only other balanced rulers in this AAR were Charles I (average of 6) and Amedee VI (average of 1.3), so looking simply at the numbers, Louis looks like a slightly less skilled version of Charles, who was probably the best ruler Savoy had in these years (if we consider both military, economics and diplomacy).

 

[SirkTheMonkey]

Nice work tearing up the Levantine states. Do you have the options of forming Jerusalem and/or Egypt now?
That's a lot of inheritance that Louis got there. If it were me in that situation I'd probably make a custom event to spin them off as vassals with relatives as the rulers a bit like the split the Habsburgs did with Spain and Austria. Of course, I am a little modding-crazy.

 

[unmerged(717611)]

I have had the Egypt/Jerusalem events available since day one, but they require a 10% papal influence, which I can't get (cruise infamy around 20)....

It took me about a year to solve that situation, but I'm pretty happy with the situation right now. no need to mod then

 

[unmerged(717611)]

Round XVI (1475-1485): From Egypt to Ireland

Ray: GOOOOOOOOOOD Evening everyone and Welcome to "BIG RULER". I'm Ray Porter, and I am here with George I. Joe and B. Rene Daid to help you all follow that alternative history! This season, we are following Savoy. Last time, Philibert I lead the first crusades in half a century to victory, but died half round. His son Louis inherited of the thrones of Epirus and Scotland, which should be problematic! Ladies and Gentlemen, please welcome Louis I de Savoie, Roi de Savoie et des Arpitans, Rei d'Aragó, Knjaže Bălgarija, Duc de Lorraine, Graft von Hohenzollern.

Louis: Hey Ray! It's a pleasure to finally meet you.

Ray: Same here. Louis, before we start... There is a question I must to ask. Aren't you too disappointed by the inheritances of Epirus and Scotland, and what are your plans?

Louis: I'll be honest Ray, Lorraine and Aragon would have been better choices! Anyway, the situations of the two countries are way different.

George: What do you mean?

Louis: Well, let's start with Epirus. Epirus was a big nation, holding most of Greece, and even holdings in Turkey. There are several islands, and a total of eight provinces with hostile neighbors: Karaman, Ottomans, Hamids, Napoli, Arbanon, Hungary and Tarnovo. As of today, some provinces already are under the siege of revoltees. We just can't hold that territory.

Ray: But it is strong economically, as it holds both banks of the Bosphorus...

Louis: Indeed. The Bosphorus, mostly Constantinople to be honest, is great to have as there are numerous ships transiting through it, so there are a lot of taxes to lose if we give it. However, Greece itself is pretty poor. I've already met with the representatives of Morea, Athens and Corfu, and we will give them some lands, since they swear us allegiance. Our partners of Bulgaria, the order of Malta and Trabzon will be granted some lands as well.

Ray: So you only plan to keep Constantinople and Izmir. What about Scotland?

Louis: Scotland is way different. In the last wars against England, we saw that Scotland was no match for the English. Several times, Savoy had to ship troops from Denmark, with the risk of the navy being intercepted. Releasing Scotland makes no sense whatsoever.

Ray: But what about the rebels?

Louis: This is not a real problem. See, only half of the Scottish territory is Scottish. The other half is English, so there will be rebels there. This will be too much for a young Scotland to handle.

George: What about defending the territory?

Louis: Yes, here we are in a situation very different from Epirus. Only three provinces have connections to potential enemies: York and Lancaster to England, Ibhnir Nis to Norwegian' Orkney, through the straights. Therefore, a small garrison would be able to resist any assault long enough for reinforcement to come.

George: What about the 300?

Ray: George, do you mean these 300 volunteers who gathered in front of Philibert's palace a few days before his reign?

George: Yes Ray, these 300.

Louis: Indeed George. The day after Christmas, about 300 people suddenly appeared in front of the palace. They just poped up like, I don't know, a comet or something. They were asking for lands. We didn't know what to do. My father sent 50 men and 50 women in the Egyptian province of Siwa, with the mission to create a colony there, south-west of Matruh. We didn't know what to do with the other 200, but when the senates of Scotland and Epirus voted their annexation, they transferred their cartographic knowledge to us. We then discovered two areas, south of the Castillo-Portuguese archipelago of the Canaries. We agreed to paid for their trip, and they have been asked to settle Savoyard farms there.

Ray: So Louis, what are your objectives for this round?

Louis: We will see how it goes. If we have to go to war, it will have to be in the East. The orthodox state of Makruria for instance has taken so much land against the Mamluks and Ethiopia lately that everyone wants to see them down...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ray: The early days of Louis reigns are used to liberate Corfu, Morea and Athens, and send diplomats one by one to negotiate the giveaway of the Greek lands. While his predecessors were seen as dangerous conquerors by the other European powers, this strategy grants him the praises from his peers...

George: This means they will be more lenient towards him when he'll annex some land in Egypt...

Ray: It probably will. Anyway, Louis receives news from the 300. The caravan moving toward Siwa suffered thirst in the Sahara... No survivor. The boat aiming to the Arguin area was caught in a storm... No survivor. The news coming from Inchiri are good however. The 50 men and 50 women sent there successfully established an Arpitan colony on the shore in March 1475. There is no indigenous population. The living conditions are not good however, neighbor Mali is a threat, people are depressed.... Louis councilors estimate that the colony will be empty in less than five years.

George: This is a shame. With Portugal and Castille already present in the Canarias, this opportunity for a West African holding should not be wasted...

Ray: It won't be. Louis strongly believes in this colony, and makes it a national focus. Citizens here will not pay taxes, food and gears will be sent there to help the colony to expand. A garrison will be provided to defend it from Mali... Now we can estimate that in less than forty years, this colony will be a valiant province of the Empire...

George: How is the situation in Greece?

Ray: Looking good. In January 1476 all negotiations with Malta, Athens, Morea, Corfu, Bulgaria and Trabzon are done. By giving away so many land, Savoy is back to a reasonable size, while it went out of control with Epirus' inheritance.

George: We might see some action now, as the Ottomans attacked Arbanon... Bulgaria guaranteed the them and joined the war.

Ray: It looks like there will be no involvement of Savoyard troops though. The Bulgarian fleet prevents the Ottomans from invading Europe, and even prevents the Ottoman fleet to leave their harbor... And remember, Louis plans an invasion of Egypt. Anyway, a few years after revolting to Flandres, Brabant revolts back and declares independent. Antoine II is back on his throne, and pledges allegiance to Louis. He only controls the cities of Ghent and Brussels though, nearly only half his holdings before the revolt of 1461...

George: On October 29, 1478, the peace treaty with the Mamluks has been signed five years and one day ago. Louis declares war to finish his father's work, and six weeks later, Cairo is Savoyard. Makruria is attacked a few hours after the Egyptian capitulation.

Ray: the Makrurian army is tough so, a lot of East African Orthodox warriors.

George: Yes, these black guys are robust and valiant. Savoy win its battles along the Nile, but at the cost of heavy losses.

Ray: I can see it being an issue...

George: It is. It slows down Savoy a lot. It takes their armies eighteen months to force Makruria to capitulate. Louis asks for the only provinces worth anything: the banks, may it be of the Nile or of the Red Sea.

Ray: Awsome news reach Louis a few months later. In January 1481, Karl II von Habsburg died with no heir. As he married Louis's sister, the Austrian senates recognizes him as the new Archduke. Louis I now is Österreich erzherzog.

George: This is very good, as Austria is a very powerful power in South HRE, having Trent, Aquilea, Gorz and Venice as vassals. This really makes for the loss of Epirus.

Ray: Indeed, and a few months later, Austria will have the opportunity to join Savoy in a war, the first time since the Austrian subjugation war of Lorraine of 1356. Castille just attacked excommunicated France, and I see an ambassador heading towards Chambery to ask for Savoy's assistance.

B.: Guys! Guys!

Ray: B.! Long time no see! How are you?

B.: Good, thanks. Guys, the sentinels just brought the news of a Spanish horseman heading towards Chambery to Louis, and he does not seem very happy.... He is meeting with Richard de Verdon, the diplomat member of his court..

Richard: We can't be sure this is what he comes for!

Louis: But this is probably it. We are going to war against France.

Richard: Well, if you do so, the pope granted you the right to annex all the land you want South of Bordeaux. You will not be considered as legitimate to rule them, but you will be right to annex them.

Louis: This is not my problem. The old Borgona is.

Richard: Maria I de Borgona will probably be asking you to assist her, indeed. So she will conducts the peace negotiations.

Louis: Not if I attack France first! After all, I don't know yet that she is asking for me to attack France, do I?

Richard: My King, I will then warn the French ambassador and our generals on the French border that we declared war, and greet that Spanish with the good news before he can ask for help....

Ray: Interesting move. I hope Castille doesn't get upset.

George: Who cares? France is already down. Their entire army is in North Africa and can't rejoin. In four months, the front is deep into France's land, and their European holdings are under siege

Ray: In August 1481, Savoy declares Education a priority. Your Savoyards now are forced to School until 10.

George: Louis is back to internal matters because the French war is near its end.

Ray: The situation is the same or so in October.

George: Give it some time. In Summer 1482, the Palatinate capitulates and becomes a vassal. The third vassalized elector after Saxony and Saluzzo.

Ray: Koln would make it four...

George: Yes, but the King of Bohemia would disagree. He grants Savoy full ownership on any imperial land Savoy can liberate from France if he does not vassalize Koln. Since no army is besieging Koln anyway, Louis agrees and signs peace with France in September, taking some land in the South-West, as granted by the Pope, and two imperial provinces. France will also liberate Irish Connacht and big Anjou.

Ray: Why Anjou? It is very unlikely that Savoy can pacifically vassalize it, it is just too big!

George: "Very Unlinkely" doesn't mean "Impossible" Ray. I'm sure Louis will do his best.

Ray: Anyway, the next few weeks are intense. Louis first promotes the writing press through his lands, and good news reach the palace, as the old Duke of Milan, Gian Galeazzo I, just died... With no know heir of any kind, the Lombard senate has to nominate his new ruler, and this is going to be Louis...

George: And see what I told you! On the first try they did it! Savoy vassalized Anjou!

Ray: What a month! Now Louis decides to annex Armagnac!

George: With Anjou and Milan in, Louis do not need Armagnac anymore... And the center of trade of Bordeaux will help to maintain a defending garrison in Scotland.

Ray: With so much action in 1482, England, Bohemia and the Pope have their eyes straight on Louis.... He'll have to play it down now. Connaght is vassalized in February 83, but this is the only action left in this round..... Anyway, I'm sure next one will be as intense as this one, so don't miss the next episode of BIG RULER!

 

[InvisibleSandwi]

The amount of nations on your coat of arms is beginning to spiral out of control! I wonder how long it will take for you to perform a dramatic heraldry revaluation given the rate of vassalizations and personal unions I've been seeing.

 

[SirkTheMonkey]

I'm not quite sure what was more amazing, that you out Habsburg'd the Habsburgs in the ultimate way or that tore such large chunks out of France. I think it's kind of a shame that the powerful Greek state had to be broken up. How are your vassalised HRE electors going?

 

[DensleyBlair]

Indeed - out-Habsburging the Habsburgs. Well played - and the coat of arms is looking nice nice again. Incidentally, this is what I came up with when let loose with Photoshop and Héraldique Européene:

Shame to see the colonies weren't as successful as perhaps they could have been, though perhaps you could push for the New World? I think some Caribbean possessions would be beneficial.

Looking forward to the next one.

 

[unmerged(717611)]

The amount of nations on your coat of arms is beginning to spiral out of control! I wonder how long it will take for you to perform a dramatic heraldry revaluation given the rate of vassalizations and personal unions I've been seeing.

I'm back to 6 personal unions, just as I was in 1474. Epirus and Scotland just have been replaced by Milan and Austria. It seems to be a "reasonable limit" of 6 PU, since I couldn't get any new ones in 50 years and just got 2 new in the decade 2 had been integrated....

Redraw the arms will only happen if the unions change, so if I get new ones (probably through a war as I did for Aragon) or -and this is the most likely- if I inherit anyone. Now I have 4 Imperial PUs (Lorraine, Hohenzollern, Austria, Milan). I should not do anything to try to integrate them, since I would not get any of the cores I'll get at a ruler's death. Aragon is powerful, it is a nice sidekick to have, so I won't force its integration. Remains Bulgaria. I could integrate Bulgaria, but what is the sense of doing it right now? When/If Savoy holdings in Egypt-Syria expands to Turkey and join Constantinople, then maybe Bulgaria will be an option to integrate, but before that...
Then, any redrawing will only occurs at Louis death (Lorraine, please Lorraine...)

I'm not quite sure what was more amazing, that you out Habsburg'd the Habsburgs in the ultimate way or that tore such large chunks out of France. I think it's kind of a shame that the powerful Greek state had to be broken up. How are your vassalised HRE electors going?

For a long time, Austria had way more prestige than I did (they were at 98 while I was at 75-80 or so) and the label said "an Austrian noble...". After the war with Makruria, I hit 100 and was supposed to inherit... I'm glad Karl II died before Austria had a chance to save itself! Now I just have to wait for Austria to annex its 4 vassals before a ruler dies with the good idea of inheriting Austria... This would give me ownership of Venice.

Indeed - out-Habsburging the Habsburgs. Well played - and the coat of arms is looking nice nice again. Incidentally, this is what I came up with when let loose with Photoshop and Héraldique Européene:

Nice. You should try to insert Flandres in a chapé-ployé between Provence and Aragon rather than with a straigth chapé ;-)

Shame to see the colonies weren't as successful as perhaps they could have been, though perhaps you could push for the New World? I think some Caribbean possessions would be beneficial.

Looking forward to the next one.

QftNW will not be the next national idea. I'm expanding the Savoyard territory at every round, and so far, absolutely no one has taken it yet. It means I'll have to wait to get 2 national ideas before taking QftNW, so I'll have to catch up with Portugal/Castille. This is the only reason I've settled colonies in Mali: they tend to core quickly in MEIOU so I'll probably be able to reach further lands and catch up.
I have played all my games (even in vanilla) with this house rule for QftNW since I once was able to discover the new world in 1450 and the major colonizer waited for 1600 before going West. Needless to say that in this game, America was mine from Horn to Bering and it became boring.
Moreover, this house rule makes it more RP: Why in hell would I reduce my navy size so we can discover a shorter road to Japan?
Now if someone discovers a new world, or if I'm stuck in Europe, this changes everything...

 

[SirkTheMonkey]

... QftNW since I once was able to discover the new world in 1450 and the major colonizer waited for 1600 before going West.

Urgh, that reminds me that I need to seriously look at the colonial game one day [QftNW in 1356 is broken design IMO]. After the religious mechanisms, major cultural revolts, new launcher, ...

 

[DensleyBlair]

Nice. You should try to insert Flandres in a chapé-ployé between Provence and Aragon rather than with a straigth chapé ;-)

That's what I was going for, though my lack of knowledge of Photoshop meant that I'd have had to draw the lines myself, which I wasn't wanting to do

 

[unmerged(717611)]

Urgh, that reminds me that I need to seriously look at the colonial game one day [QftNW in 1356 is broken design IMO]. After the religious mechanisms, major cultural revolts, new launcher, ...

I can see two issues with the current design:
1- Player can take QftNW too early
2- AI can take QftNW too late

First, some explorers went out before Columbus: Carpini, Longjumeau, Rubruck, Marco Polo went for their journeys before 1356. The Vivaldi brothers reached Ethiopia from Genoa following the African coast, in the XIIIth... Cadamosto did the same in the 1450's for the portuguese

The best "pioneers explorers" were naval, innovative nations, with either a strong trade (venice, genoa) or an expantionist (portugal, castille, france, england) position. Maybe limit the QftNW idea based on these sliders sliders as long as the Tordesillas event has not poped up yet? This would boost the more "logical" nations to explore, and the other ones will have to catch up...

As for AI nations not colonizing, it is way more balanced in MEIOU than it is in vanilla, thanks to the "discover/colonize" missions. The only issue would be pioneer nations not taking QftNW as NI before the XVIIth. In years of EU3 playing, I only saw that once (in vanilla), but maybe this can be prevented simply, with a "discover" mission which would pop-up for non QftNW nations after the Tordesillas event occured?

I don't feel like there is a

 

[InvisibleSandwi]

I learned a little bit about the navigation problem in my college studies. The main thing that prevented reliable European oceanic contact with sub-Saharan Africa/India/China prior to Portuguese exploration was that Cape Bojador (the westernmost bits of Africa) were deceptively hard to navigate. You couldn't hug the coastline because there were sandbanks, you couldn't go out because you'd get swept out into the Atlantic, and so forth. The Portuguese basically had to invent new measuring instruments and learn how to sail by using them instead of approximations. This is very difficult to simulate with EU3's tech and ocean systems, if you ask me.

The mod I used to primarily play (WAMMO) 'solved' the colonization issue by preventing all colonization (including the selection of most colonial NIs) until a "Colonial Plans" modifier was obtained. One either had to meet naval tech requirements or get access to Siberia in order to start colonizing and exploring. One problem with this was that nations bordering other colonizable provinces often had to get massive naval tech just to expand into nearby land - i.e Southeast Asian countries could not expand further into Indonesia. I suppose one kludge would be to have an event chain that unlocks colonization options based on various factors (like advanced naval technology and exploratory neighbors), but that'd be a lot of work.

 

[unmerged(717611)]

OOps, just realized I am 3 updates late. 1 will come today. sorry about that.