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You're welcome.

I think you'll run into space problems... specially in the land doctrines tech tree...

Yeah and yes exactly that page is the only problem page I see.

Will you be intending to change the techs or add to them in the foreseeable future? I was going to just put all the MDS techs in one column, but really I think I'll have to just continue on from where you left off. My techs start at 1990, so where you have 1989, I'll start my techs there, if that is ok with you, will save a tile and some space.
 
Kretoxian: Do you have a spreadsheet with all the techs laid out and numbered please.

Your techs have the same numbers as mine in MDS, and I'd like to do it all on a spreadsheet first. If I can use yours, then I just have to add mine to yours... Cheers
 
Yeah and yes exactly that page is the only problem page I see.

Will you be intending to change the techs or add to them in the foreseeable future? I was going to just put all the MDS techs in one column, but really I think I'll have to just continue on from where you left off. My techs start at 1990, so where you have 1989, I'll start my techs there, if that is ok with you, will save a tile and some space.

so far, no. I don't plan to update it because i'm busy with the 1914 tech tree.

Yeah, it's ok. I think it's the best. But i didn't end in 1989 but in 1992 (the last MBT model is from that year IIRC)

Kretoxian: Do you have a spreadsheet with all the techs laid out and numbered please.

Your techs have the same numbers as mine in MDS, and I'd like to do it all on a spreadsheet first. If I can use yours, then I just have to add mine to yours... Cheers

I'm so sorry but no... this was made with the objective of making it vanilla or NWO2 compatible, not MDS... sorry...
 
Was it this mod that added the Avro Arrow to the Canadian tech tree? If so thank you. Woop.

Yup. It's in the improved supersonic interceptor model for Canada.

I also thought about adding the British never-were cold war aircrafts like the hawker p.1211 instead of the american built airplanes used by the UK... but in the end i decided to go strictly historical...
 
This is working out quite well. I'll have a pic to show you later.

The problem for the moment is that DH-AAR-NWO use divisions and MDS uses brigades.
I did have the problem before in MDS where I had both divisions and brigades and the player could choose whatever he wanted. But if he chose brigades, and the enemy had divisions, he was at a severe disadvantage right away.

SO, I think for the moment, I'll keep all the stuff that is already in CWWT together and not add to it... divisions.. and I'll put the MDS2 stuff off to the side.. brigades.. and what to do can be discussed and decided at a later date?

Of course you also have the problem at the US went to bridades much earlier than say CHC or RUS, so there is the complication that you will also need to have both... in a mod I can do as I please, but for AAR-NWO-DH, it has to be historical...

What do you say?
 
Here is what I've done so far, a few niggles to tidy up, but I'm sure you'll see that there is room...

I haven't done any text except for the first 2 or 3 tiles, just to see who it looks.

 
This is working out quite well. I'll have a pic to show you later.

The problem for the moment is that DH-AAR-NWO use divisions and MDS uses brigades.
I did have the problem before in MDS where I had both divisions and brigades and the player could choose whatever he wanted. But if he chose brigades, and the enemy had divisions, he was at a severe disadvantage right away.

SO, I think for the moment, I'll keep all the stuff that is already in CWWT together and not add to it... divisions.. and I'll put the MDS2 stuff off to the side.. brigades.. and what to do can be discussed and decided at a later date?

Of course you also have the problem at the US went to bridades much earlier than say CHC or RUS, so there is the complication that you will also need to have both... in a mod I can do as I please, but for AAR-NWO-DH, it has to be historical...

What do you say?

Not only US switched to brigades during early 60s, but in the second half of the 50s Israel's army backbone were brigades, and not divisions. And also, some other armies, for instance the Argentinean one, switched from a divisional one to a fully brigademental one during the 70s, however de facto, they were working on a "regimental basis" since the late 40s when important reforms were conducted in the army's organical structure.

I remember an email which i wrote to dannielshannon telling him about an idea that i had for the next version of CWTT and it was about implementing the independent brigades.
For this, you would obviously need to create brigademental duplicates of the actual divisions (Infantry brigade, motorized infantry brigade... and so on) and then add two techs into the land doctrines tree, one called "divisional combat system", and the other one called "brigademental combat system" and, after having researched, in each doctrine path the technology of air-land battles those two techs would unlock and then you would have to choose between one of them. Alternatively, it could also be made using a decision and, that way you would save some precious space in the tree.

And then, once you have choosen between one of those techs, using the same code that activates the armoured divisions, using the infantry tech tree you would research either divisions or brigades. IE:

Code:
command = { trigger = { technology = brigademental combat system } type = activate_unit_type which = infantry autonomous brigade }
command = { trigger = { technology = divisional combat system } type = activate_unit_type which = infantry division }

Obviously, IMO brigades would be like divisions but x3 times more organized, faster and 3x time higher morale, by standard, but also 1/3 soft and hardattack values, compared to a division and better at defending themselves, like x1,5 in defence values compared to a division.

Obviously, there would be still some problems to iron out, like for instance, how to make the existing divisions upgrade to a brigade? Would an upgrade path do the trick? Would the standard DH map be adequate for a brigademental combat system? (i'm assuming that mumia's one would be) What to do with HQ units? would they deserve their brigademental duplicate or not? and so on...

EDIT: Wow! i haven't saw that image! you managed to get plenty of space there! Are the buttons working ok?
 
@Kretoxian: Yes, interesting reading there. Yes, all the buttons work perfectly.

I think I'll wait and see how your thoughts and others' develop. But I think you're on the right track with what you said above.

Asalto in the MDS mentioned some stuff I need to think about. No point in rushing into this, as if it isn't planned out properly, it could be very messy.

In MDS I have US-techs (since they freely give out information so their enemies can see what they would be up against), researched it and have all the pdf's to hand, but for an AAR-NWO-DH-MDS game, I'd need to have more generic techs, or maybe not?

THIS is the point to ponder. Your solution to the divs vs brigs issue is good.

I think I'll put it all into a spreadsheet and see how stuff fits now that I've made much more room available. Cheers
 
Hey Kretoxian, if you are having warm feelings in the base of your tummy about wanting to change your CWTT mod using the work I did today, I can send it to you, no problem.

I just want your mod to be the very latest version before I do any more drastic changes.
 
You guys will really need a new thread. Crossposting on 4-5 different threads, to join up your century spanning project, isnt good for coordination. :p

The thread is the AAR maximising for the Grand Campaign thread by ejwith9...

I only posted here as I'm using the CWWT to give me a start and I need Kretoxian to see what I'm doing and agree to it, since it is his mod afterall.

But yeah, for the moment it is a bit messy. I cannot really proceed until ejwith9 gives me his approval, since it is his mod as well. I wait for him.
 
In MDS I have US-techs (since they freely give out information so their enemies can see what they would be up against), researched it and have all the pdf's to hand, but for an AAR-NWO-DH-MDS game, I'd need to have more generic techs, or maybe not?

THIS is the point to ponder. Your solution to the divs vs brigs issue is good.

I think I'll put it all into a spreadsheet and see how stuff fits now that I've made much more room available. Cheers

The point is that from certain year during the 90s the US became the leading country in military techs, IE, all their techs were (and still are) the cutting edge, so IMO, it's totally perfect and historicaly accurate to base the military techs on the US ones.



Hey Kretoxian, if you are having warm feelings in the base of your tummy about wanting to change your CWTT mod using the work I did today, I can send it to you, no problem.

I just want your mod to be the very latest version before I do any more drastic changes.

Nah! don't worry, i'm busy right now with other mod and i don't have plans, for the moment to work on this.


BTW, i think that the dichotomy between brigades and divisions should also be applied to aerial units, only that in this case it would be between Wings and Squadrons, because that's the backbone of many post 1945 air forces.
 
Stupid question, but considering introduction of independent brigades, wouldn't it be easier that instead of dual brigade/division system, there is simply single line with switching the division as basic army formation for brigade? Let's say, for generic purposes, to have conversion of division formations after certain year to brigade formations? As Kretoxian suggested, the diffrence would be in stats, with brigades having bigger morale and speed but less flesh and firepower (maybe later wouldn't be really that obvious in relation to obsolete divisions due to more advanced armament). For example, global change of the size of formations could come in early 1960s, so heir of 1958 Infantry Division would be 1962 Infantry Brigade. To keep brigade attachments intact, attached brigades could become attached regiments or something in early 1960s as well. What do you think? It would be basically only change of name and stats (including smaller number of personel). Or would be this too generalized and simplistic for global use? Also, what would happen to surplus manpower when division is transformed into brigade (that is about half size of division in personel). Could player somehow get this manpower returned to pool or something? This is probably beyond the game mechanics, so I guess we could let this manpower to be ''wasted'', theoretically they'd retire or find new jobs, so it's not our matter anyway?

Considering global use of US military tech, what exactly would this cover? For various specific technology developments that spread globally and everyone must use, I'm totally okay with that (especially various industrial/research stuff and unit classifications like jet fighter generations). But for military doctrines I'd like to see US ones being applied to NATO branch (I can see there are NATO, Warsaw Pact, even Axis and 3rd world people's war focus doctrine branches avalible on Kretoxian tech tree) while other paths could have their potential evolutions (for 3rd world, there already is Asymmetric Warfare doctrine focus and other guerrilla tactics as upgrade to People's War while US doctrines could counter that with COIN/SOF tactics or something else).
 
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Stupid question, but considering introduction of independent brigades, wouldn't it be easier that instead of dual brigade/division system, there is simply single line with switching the division as basic army formation for brigade? Let's say, for generic purposes, to have conversion of division formations after certain year to brigade formations? As Kretoxian suggested, the diffrence would be in stats, with brigades having bigger morale and speed but less flesh and firepower (maybe later wouldn't be really that obvious in relation to obsolete divisions due to more advanced armament). For example, global change of the size of formations could come in early 1960s, so heir of 1958 Infantry Division would be 1962 Infantry Brigade. To keep brigade attachments intact, attached brigades could become attached regiments or something in early 1960s as well. What do you think? It would be basically only change of name and stats (including smaller number of personel). Or would be this too generalized and simplistic for global use? Also, what would happen to surplus manpower when division is transformed into brigade (that is about half size of division in personel). Could player somehow get this manpower returned to pool or something? This is probably beyond the game mechanics, so I guess we could let this manpower to be ''wasted'', theoretically they'd retire or find new jobs, so it's not our matter anyway?

Considering global use of US military tech, what exactly would this cover? For various specific technology developments that spread globally and everyone must use, I'm totally okay with that (especially various industrial/research stuff and unit classifications like jet fighter generations). But for military doctrines I'd like to see US ones being applied to NATO branch (I can see there are NATO, Warsaw Pact, even Axis and 3rd world people's war focus doctrine branches avalible on Kretoxian tech tree) while other paths could have their potential evolutions (for 3rd world, there already is Asymmetric Warfare doctrine focus and other guerrilla tactics as upgrade to People's War while US doctrines could counter that with COIN/SOF tactics or something else).

Excuse me if i didn't get you right, but are you suggesting simply to create another branch for brigades? IE something like this:

Code:
1954 infantry division tech
                      |
                      |
                      |
1958 infantry division tech ------ 1958 Infantry Brigade tech (would deactivate 1958 division)
                      |                                 |
                      |                                 |
                      |                                 |
1962 infantry division tech          1962 Infantry Brigade tech

If that's your proposal i see a major flaw on it, and it's those countries which their backbone was the brigade/independent regiments previously to late 50s (IIRC even Japan had, during the 30s had independent brigades, so called "independent mixed brigades". I think that the creation of brigades must be connected somehow to doctrines...

About the manpower... i think that, unless it's done via events or decissions, it's beyond game's mechanics...

About doctrines... I seem to recall that UK and US don't use the same doctrine nowadays (and during late cold war years) regarding their usage of the tanks. IIRC the British armoured tactics even nowadays, look more like the "infantry support" role than their american counterpart...

BTW earlier, when i said that air forces would also suffer from this dichotomy i said squadrons, well, my mistake i was meaning to group/wings or stations, as can be seen here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_organization#Air_forces

The one with this symbol, to be more precise: III
 
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Here is what I've done so far, a few niggles to tidy up, but I'm sure you'll see that there is room...

I haven't done any text except for the first 2 or 3 tiles, just to see who it looks.


What is this fun??? Is this techtree to cover NWO/MDS? Just wondering? The possibilities are giving me headspins!
 
Ah I didn't realise you had already got this type of thing working. Possibly I could have used that before.

Anyway this is already done in the RDD mod since about 2011. ...:)

@OneAussieMan777: yes it is for the AAR-NWO-MDS mod which uses this mod. I can send you the files if you want? But be aware, it can mess up stuff as well.
 
Kretoxian: Do you have a spreadsheet with all the techs laid out and numbered please.

Apparently, I started when I was drunk. Just finished it, at least you don't have to go through all the techs. Unfortunately, I didn't put descriptions to every tech.
Here you go.
Code:
#Secret    Respective events:
4830        #3000039 79Fighter
7760        #        40 85Fighter
7420        #        34
7490
7500
7510
7520
7530
7540
7670
7680
7460
7770
7780
7790
7800
4870        #3000038
7750
7820
7830
7840
7850
7860
7870
7880
7890
7900
7910
7250
7730        #3000037 StealthFighter83
7740
7290
7430
7470
7440
7480
7450
7240        #3000024 AirCav51
7640
7650
7660
7720
70010
12070
7930
7940
7950
7960
7620        #3000031 Goliath Tank

#Infantry
13090
13100
13180
13190
13200
13210
13220
13230
13240
13250
13260
13270
13280
13290
13300
13110
13120
13130
13140
13150
13160
13170
199190
13310
13320
13330
13340
13350
13360
13370
13380
13390
13400
13410
13420
13430
13440
13450
199200

#Armor/Artillery
2500
2990
2350
2440
21000
21010
21020
21030
21040
21050
21060
21070
21080
21090
21100
21110
21120
21130
21140
21150
21160
21170
21210
21220
21230
21240
21250
11080
11090
11050
11060
22950
22960

#Naval
3960
3980
3970
3990
3590
3580
3030
3600
3500
3800
3870
12280
3880
3890
3990
15350
15360
15370
15380
15390
12340
12170
12150
12180
12190
12200
12210
12220
12230
12240
12250
12270
12290
12300
12310
12320
12330
12350
12360
12370
12380

#Air
4410
4380
4390
4880
4890
4970
4980
4990
4420
4430
15090
15310
15320
15330
15340
15200
15210
15230
15240
15250
15260
15270
15280
15290
15300
4840
4690
4720
4730
4440
4460
4470
4480
4490
4660
4670
4680
4590

#Industry
5730
5740
5750
5890
5870
5880
5760
5760
5770
5780
5790
5660
5670
5720
53070
59900
59910
59920

#Land Doctrines
14140
14150
14160
14170
14180
14190
14200
14220
14230
14240
14250
14260