I liked the cultist rules, and would suggest that maybe there were too many brutals, even if it did benefit me.
I have no strong opinion either way on rivals.
I have no strong opinion either way on rivals.
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This rule 7B? I thought you couldn't forge a GM's PM. etc.. I didn't realise that posting would be rule breaking or I would have taken his name off..
Sorry if this has upset anyone, takes a while to remember all the small stuff.
Sorry if this has upset anyone, takes a while to remember all the small stuff.
That was not a criticism on how you did it. I think it wasn't worse than for instance my last game with seer+priest+sorc+infiltrator+one-time scans. It was more of a warning to not just pile spies on top of everything we already got. You took away infiltrator and one-time scans and added spies. That's fine.
I think you did it about right in the level of information. For most of the clues we had 2-3 role/traits it could be. aedan as a SA was for example one of three interpretations flying around, only we though defensive hunter was more likely.
Totally agree on the last part.
Hm, no, you are right. A trait that is often pointless and sometimes fantastic is probably worse than a trait that is sort of meh always. I never thought about it that way.
Some traits like witness/padre and to some extent SA are, as I see it, comeback traits for the village if they lose the seer early. Same as brutal is a comeback trait for baddies agaisnt an iron-JL. They are meant to make an impact.
I like this.
You got me all wrong on this. I had no problem with your deadline. Me getting up early to see the deadline means I enjoyed the game and was excited about the update.
GM is always late with updates every now and then and it just so happened that the GM was late when I got extra excited (had my plan worked out I would have been in the only pack and in the JL with the seer and the spy - I was eagerly awaiting the update so I could really start causing mayhem). But I got killed by the last of the other pack, probably for looking too much like a goodie, which is always a risk you take when you try to infiltrate the JL as a baddie.
This seems to be one of those rules that varies from GM to GM. I personally never include it, anything goes in my games. But don't come whining if I'm forced to publically deny the verity of a fake PM.
I used to have in my rules that I as a GM could deny or confirm any GM PMs made public or I saw in a PM exchange - whether they were fake or real. IIRC noone ever gave me an opportunity to do it. So in a way that worked too...
On second thought, I do enjoy when few people are left at the end. If it's a matter of means to an end, brutals can help, but there might also be other options working toward the same idea.
Guess I don't pay enough attention to the rules. I prefer it used this way anyways, tbh, wasn't a complaint.
GM AAR - Night 0 to Night 1
Falc the seer scans The Super Pope the Citizen, based on a Standing Order that was essentially a randomized list of all players.
Gliomarto the priest scans EUROO7 based on his SO which was a list of several names. EUROO7 is an apprentice so an Apprentice Priest is created.
Teep set an order to scan EUROO7 specifically, and so he scans EUROO7 the Apprentice Priest such as Euro's putting on his last bit of braid for the National Guard uniform.
Capt. Kiwi protects Cliges the Republican Waffle.
Ithvan watches Panzer Commader who isn't even in the game. How did I miss that?
Reactionary Pack: Wagonlitz puts a hunt on drxav. Chieron overrides with a hunt on drxav. Not sure why they chose the French Troll.
Steed spies on sbr the cursed leader villager and gets the "What a contradictory chap this Ess Bee Arr is. He can argue persuasively for things he doesn't believe in" clue.
GreatUberGeek spies on Hax the apprentice with a rival and gets this clue: "This fellow claims to be an Ottoman Spy - yet right now his goals are at odds with those who would seek to destroy the Convention."
Esemesas robs drxav and gets the roleblocker trait.
In the list of amusing nonsense: Euro places a scan order for Night 0 on Cliges and seamus as a backup. I went to save it to my daily orders when I remembered Euro was an apprentice. You don't fool me, Euro! ...well at least not for long.
Seamus reacts to the notice that he has a rival with "Omg, why?" which was precisely the sort of reaction I wanted. Satisfying.
Capt. Kiwi reacts rather differently, sending this to Ithvan and me: "Oh God. Vainglory, you bastard. I'd forgotten you liked to mess with those kinds of traits in creative ways
Ithvan, I'm the GA. Don't do anything stupid, one of us is bound to die naturally. Forgive me if I don't set protection orders on you. Lord only knows what Vainglory has given you. Sorcerer or some such, no doubt. Or a baddie role blocker." I wish I had, Kiwi, I wish I had.Ithvan replies by explaining he's the Confessor. Kiwi again: "That's a very Vainglory pairing. It also means we can trust each other not to be cursed, if we've been honest about our roles. We'll want to set our orders on different people to maximise chances of getting the right person. Cliges, Chieron, Panzer Commader and Jacob-Lundgren won the last game, which could make them a good place to start. Protect Cliges. As long as you're on someone else, it probably doesn't matter who. No way to know who the wolves will go for yet."
Night 0 and the GA and Padre are cooperating. Didn't see that coming.
Day 1
Hax has decided to PM several people and pose as an unattached cultist in an attempt to catch a wolf; as an apprentice he thought he was a villager, and decided to do something risky since his role was boring. Hax actually contacted one of the Reactionaries, which led to questions of the GM about whether cultists would start unattached with contacts. I was careful about answering this: the GM is impartial, but there is information players should know. If you're going to pull a stunt like this then you need to be prepared for your con to collapse when the GM pulls the rug out from under you: if you say "I'm a cultist and you're my contact" and the mark asks the GM "Did you forget to tell me I had a cultist?" the GM is within his rights to say "I did not give you an attached cultist". In this instance I left the door open to unattached cultists in the rules deliberately, while not actually having any, and so I did not tell the Reactionaries that Hax was lying, but neither did I cover for him. Apparently the Reactionaries drew the right conclusion.
Hax, however, thought he got a bite and put The Super Pope on the block. Day 1 was surprisingly interesting thanks to Hax, as the accusation and counter-accusation dominated the day. Seamus2008 got put out there as a third party, and Euro eventually led the charge that TSP was likely not a wolf, and Hax had a false positive. This led to a tie at deadline, although I don't know if Cliges intended to cause it. Thus passed Seamus2008, vigilant rival of the assassin Nautilu, ruining one of my cruel rivalries. TSP then brutalized Euro. TSP had set a standing brutal on Euro with Hax as a backup at the start of Day 1, and was not online when Euro made the push to save him, which resulted in the hilariously unfair spectacle of Euro getting killed by the man he failed to save. Thus passed the first apprentice of Gliomarto.
Night 1
Falc the seer scans tonkatoy5 the cursed villager, based on SO. This was a mistake on my part: Falc's SO was essentially stochastic but I forgot to apply the rule, so the first guy on the list got scanned instead. Falc didn't notice since at this stage he wasn't looking for anyone in particular.
Gliomarto the priest scans THE_SPLIT the apprentice and replaces poor Euro.
Teep the sorcerer scans Steed the spy citizen.
Kiwi's SO protects Steed.
Ithvan watches Hax, on a hunch that his antics will make him a target.
Cliges issues an order for Republican Pack to hunt Hax. Ithvan wins the lottery on Night 1 with Narref being IDd by the dying Hax.
Esemesas the urchin uses his ill-gotten roleblocker trait to roleblock Cliges. Cliges thus stays home and makes the other four Republicans hunt Hax, who was being watched, so he wasn't at risk of being "seen" by the Padre.
Adamus the roleblocker cultist blocks Euro the apprentice priest. He's dead, Jim!
Notably GuG and Steed don't put in orders to spy.
GM AAR Day 2 - Night 5
Day 2: Ithvan has identified Narref the Republican Wolf thanks to his watch order. But the Protectors' Justice League can't scan in villagers, and neither protector wants to put themselves out there as a mouthpiece, so ultimately Ithvan tells jcucc the noob to do it for them. Narref is duly lynched. This creates much confusion since Falc the seer wants to join the JL, but jcucc thinks he's a baddie trying to infiltrate it!
Night 2
Falc the seer scans Arkasas the Rake Cultist, and sees a citizen, again this is SO. Falc now realizes I've accidentally scanned the first two on the SO list, rather than used his stochastic process. Shit. The saving grace is that the stochastic process wouldn't have scanned a wolf for him and he was only scanning at random anyway. It's still a bad mistake, I realized I needed a bit warning above his SO list that there was an execution method associated, not a straight reading of the list. Gliomarto the priest scans sbr the citizen, but is blocked by Adamus the cultist.
Teep the sorcerer scans snoopdogg the leader apprentice but is blocked by Esemesas the urchin.
Capt. Kiwi protects jcucc
Ithvan issues no order and has no standing orders, so he watches nobody.
Reactionary Pack: Chieron puts a hunt on J. Pass, thereby killing a Brutal Republican Wolf. This kills two Republicans in a single cycle, and we're only two days in, things are pretty grim for the Republicans.
Steed spies on aedan777 the SA villager: "The only interesting thing about aedan is th- HOLY SHIT HE'S LOOKING AT YOU, RUN."
Esemesas the roleblocker urchin tries to rob Teep the sorcerer, and roleblocks him for good measure (not a bad idea that...), but Teep has no traits. OTOH he blocks the sorcerer from creating a bandit, which was a good move for the village.
Gen. Skobelev the urchin tries to rob jcucc the blessed citizen, but blessings cannot be stolen, so Skobelev gains nothing.
GuG doesn't spy, again.
Day 3: Nothing to see here. Nauts gets lynched, completing the other half of the rivalry with seamus. Someone notes that it appears Nauts had an easy way to off his rival...
Night 3
Falc scans jcucc the blessed citizen.I have no record of an order from Gliomarto on Night 3, nor of an SO. This suggests Glio didn't set one this day. In any case, Gliomarto was blocked and hunted.
Teep the sorcerer's SO re-attempts to scan snoopdogg the leader apprentice, creating a leader bandit. Hooray, we get to test this concept! ... right?
Capt. Kiwi protects Cliges the brutal republican wolf on the theory that they might go for a guy with a French name.
Ithvan watches jcucc for the night.
The Republican pack sets an order to hunt jcucc, then overrides with a hunt on aedan777, then finally settles on gliomarto the priest. These were all issued by Cliges. IIRC something Glio said made Cliges suspicious? Thus passes the priest.
Steed spies on johho888 the leader cultist, and is told that "Johho could be very important". This wasn't quite a dud clue but it was very vague - it hinted at the fact that johho had the power to affect the game. johho duly told Steed it was referring to his weak leader trait, which was indeed part of the clue, and Steed accepted this rather than spy on johho again.
No action from GuG, Ese, and Skob.
Day 4: Not a lot going on here. pjnlsn happens to be the most popular target for lynching for the day, no outings or anything. pj is a brutal wolf, but opts not to target the JL mouthpiece, instead going for a random player... and kills the bandit created during the previous cycle.
Night 4
Falc the seer's SO scans Steed the citizen. Yes, I applied the stochastic process this time.THE_SPLIT is now the priest and he scans Cliges the brutal wolf, seeing a citizen.
Teep's SO is Capt. Kiwi the GA, and he sees a citizen.
Snoopdogg was dead by nightfall anyway, but didn't issue an order even if he had lived.
Capt. Kiwi returns his protection to jcucc.
Ithvan watches his rival Capt. Kiwi, which considering it won't save Kiwi's life, makes sense. He is, however, blocked by Adamus.
The Reactionaries put a hunt on reis91 the cursed brutal villager. Not sure which member did this, but they turn reis to their cause and replace pj.
Steed spies on Gen. Skobelev the urchin: "Getting your eyes on "Citizen" Valmont proves nearly impossible - this customer seems very adept at sneaking about Paris, but you never managed to see what he was doing."
Adamus the roleblocker cultist blocks Ithvan the Padre.
Nothing from the other traits.
Day 5: Nothing to see here. GuG the reactionary spy cultist, who has been a zombie, gets lynched. Not an outing.
Night 5
Falc's SO scans reis91 the formerly cursed brutal reactionary wolf, and sees a wolf.THE_SPLIT orders a scan of Adamus the roleblocker cultist, but dies this night.
Teep the sorcerer's SO is Cliges the brutal republican wolf, but he sees a villager.
Capt. Kiwi's SO protects Daffius the assassin villager.
Drxav is subbing for Ithvan, watches Gen. Skobelev the villager urchin.
The Republicans (not sure who) put a hunt on THE_SPLIT the new priest, and kill him technically after he's scanned Adamus, but the information of course dies with THE_SPLIT.
Steed spies on Gen. Skobelev again: "Citizen Valmont, formerly Vicomte de Valmont, likes to put on airs and graces - possibly because he lacks the sort of wealth one would associate with nobility." Steed and johho's PJL concludes correctly that Skobelev is an urchin.
Adamus amends his SO that was blocking Ithvan the padre to block jcucc the blessed villager (and mouthpiece) instead.
Esemesas puts a robbery order on jcucc, which would have gained him nothing, but cancels it when informed it's his last shot.
Daffius the assassin villager shoots Chieron the SA reactionary wolf, bring the reactionaries' losses to 3. Good shot by Daffius, the only successful villager shot of the game.
That'll do for now, cycles 6-11 later today/tomorrow.
Hmm seems I've been popular target for peeping Tom(s) in the game, both spy and padre visited urchin during the nights. Seems they have a thing for smelly little children - kinky!
Also, new game up in here.
Also, new game up in here.
To clear something up - I didn't cancel the order on jcucc because I learned it was my last salve(shut up, baby, I knew it), but because I became more convinced of his goodie-ness.
snoopdogg started the lynch against me, so I killed him in return
You're now on my list.:ninja:
I joined the big, and when I retire I will sell the list to the highest bidder. :ninja:
GM AAR Day 6 - Night 8
Day 6: reis91 gets outed, having been scanned Night 5, after turning Night 4. Unlucky. reis91 threatens to brutalize the last person voting for him, with two amusing unvotes as a result. However, reis decides to do the smart thing and silence the JL mouthpiece still out there.
Night 6: here's the big one.
Falc scans Walrus the Rake Citizen per his SO, but Walrus dies before dawn.
Teep scans sbr the Cursed Leader Citizen per his SO.
Capt. Kiwi had jcucc for his protection, but jcucc died during the day, so his SO switches to videonfan, who is then shot, bypassing protection. This bears some consideration later.
Ithvan has been subbed by drxav, who orders a watch on Steed.
With jcucc brutalized, Adamus' SO reverts to Ithvan the Padre... who is now subbed by drxav. I sent Adamus a note asking that he update his SO to reflect the fact that it had the wrong name on it. If the hunt had been against someone drxav was watching, I'd have roleblocked drxav, but I preferred it if he updated his list anyway.
The Reactionaries set a hunt on Steed, but later in the day change it to drxav, who survived thanks to his blessing.
Cliges suspects that Reactionary Pack might be doomed, and sets a contingency hunt on Falc to cover that contingency. Good thinking, but they've got a few guys still in the mix.
Esemesas roleblocks drxav as well (sheesh, not having a good day) and tries to rob him, but drxav has no traits. Not that it mattered...
... because Arkasas decides to shoot Esemesas for reasons unknown. Fair move for a wolf, since it's -1 to the village.
Walrus also decides to blaze away tonight, selecting videonfan. This is abominable luck, as videonfan is the only player left in the game, and one of only two players from the start, who could make it backfire.
Thus walrus goes and attacks videonfan, slaying him, but videonfan's self-defense kills walrus too.
Lastly, Steed spies on Wagonlitz and gets "What a truly horrible character the tax collector is." This clue as I've mentioned, covers both RP and role/trait, since Wagonlitz is RPing a hated character while being a brutal dissident. Steed and johho naturally take it at face value as a wolf.
Now the note about Capt. Kiwi is that based on adjudication, he doesn't actually start protection until after assassinations have occurred, which would have meant Gen. Skobelev was protected that night (to no effect). I don't know if I took adjudication from CXXI or CLIII prior to modifying it for CLIV. What I do know is that CXXI had self-defense as the last step before hunts while assassinations preceded protection, and hunter powers precede protection under standard adjudication too. That seems odd... I believe I've seen a hunter mouthpiece protected by a GA before, and I'd have thought adjudication would usually check for all forms of protection before going to a successful wolf attack with a 50/50 of a wolf dying during that attack. Gen. Skobelev has an adjudication for CLV that avoids this issue... probably worth copying that order in future.
Day 7: Arkasas the Rake Reactionary Emigre falls afoul of the mob and gets lynched. Nothing to see here. Lucky for Team Evil, he fired the night before. sbr the cursed leader villager set an order that if Wagonlitz (the brutal reactionary wolf) is lynched, to leaderlynch Steed (the spy villager) instead. The order is revised so that Arkasas the rake reactionary cultist is to be lynched if Wagonlitz is the condemned man - ultimately Arkasas dies anyway, so sbr's order isn't put into effect.
Night 7:
Falc's SO scans Adamus the Roleblocker Republican Emigre and sees a citizen.
Teep's SO scans Gen. Skobelev the urchin citizen.
Capt. Kiwi protects Gen. Skobelev.
Drxav watches Falc.
Cliges sets the Republican orders: Tonka backup Teep, Teep backup Tonka, and finally Tonka backup sbr. Tonkatoy5 the cursed villager is added to the Republicans' ranks.
Steed fails to set a spy order, having been busy with work.
Day 8: Wagonlitz the brutal reactionary wolf, last of the reactionaries, is lynched, edging out drxav the padre by one vote. However johho the leader republican cultist, infiltrator of the JL, has set his leaderlynch to save drxav the padre by eliminating Wagonlitz the brutal reactionary wolf. A shame that didn't get triggered, since Wagonlitz sets his brutal on johho888, who led the charge to lynch Wagonlitz. It would have been amusing to have a leader brutalized by his victim. Ah well, not to be. Instead the last Reactionary Wolf brutalizes the Republican Cultist who had infiltrated the Justice League. This move inadvertently helps the village, since there are no Reactionaries left to benefit from damage to the Republicans, and the village is 1 step further from parity, and the JL infiltrator is dead. Right strategy on the part of both Wagon and johho, unfortunate outcome for Team Evil.
Night 8:
Falc sets an order to scan Gen. Skobelev, but since the internet issues set all my PMs to "read" I overlooked it. My process involved checking PMs as they come in, and saving them to a masterlist, then sending an acknowledgement. With the internet setting everything to read, I never noticed the PM from Falc, so I went to SOs assuming Falc was relying on them again. This was the biggest mistake save for the clue on Tonka, albeit here I had the excuse of the internet problems setting my PMs to read. Falc scans the sorcerer, sees a villager.
Teep sets an order to scan drxav, but is roleblocked by Adamus the Republican Cultist.
Capt. Kiwi's SO protects sbr the cursed leader villager.
Drxav sets no order, and has no SO, so he watches nobody.
Wagonlitz, last of the Reactionaries, had an order to hunt Adamus the Republican Cultist, but his pack is eliminated during the day.
The Republican SO, set by Adamus, strikes aedan777 the SA villager.
Adamus the roleblocker cultist blocks Teep the sorcerer, because of suspicions that he is the seer. Good strategy if Teep is the seer to block instead of hunt... too bad he's on your side, guys!
Steed orders a spy on Falc the seer: "Falc has found work opportunities since the Revolution." I should have put "the traveling guillotine salesman" instead of Falc. This hint pointed to Falc being important without naming him as the seer. Steed concludes that Falc is likely evil.
GM AAR Day 9 - Finale
Day 9: Steed goes public with his spy scans. This proves unfortunate for Gen. Skobelev, as the clues about him are misread by enough players that he's lynched on suspicion of being a cultist. This also causes Falc to out himself as the seer, since he's also under suspicion.
Night 9:
Falc reiterates his order on Skobelev, who gets lynched. Falc is roleblocked so it doesn't go to his SO sbr.
Teep scans Falc the seer, but is hunted by the Republicans.
Capt. Kiwi protects Falc. Smart move, but the Republicans have a different idea.
Drxav watches Steed.
The Republicans hunt Teep the sorcerer; logical move if they suspect Teep is a goodie and Falc just outed himself as the seer, they get a free shot at whatever Teep is and avoid the no-hunt of targeting the likely protected alleged seer.
Too bad that Teep's the sorcerer, guys.
Adamus moves his roleblock onto Falc, again, logical move since the roleblocker can jam a suspected scanner indefinitely.
Steed spies on Falc again just to confirm his seer claim... and gets somewhat dudded: "There sits the traveling guillotine salesman, wearing a very forced smile as he hosts a very inebriated friend. The friend's back is to you, and you cannot identify him. It is obvious from the salesman's repeated glances at the clock that he is impatient to be elsewhere, just as you are impatient to see where that is." If Falc hadn't been roleblocked I'd have dropped Steed a clue about Falc going and investigating people, which would indirectly confirm his seer claim (since there's a dead bandit, dead sorcerer, three dead priests, dead apprentice, it's unlikely Falc's anything else)... but with the roleblock, that wasn't what Falc was doing, so Steed got a clue that there's a roleblocker. However the roleblocker clue is useful too.
Day 10: Daffius is the target for Pin the Lynch on the Villager today. Nothing to see here. But with "le headless Bourbon" as his RP name and the Reactionaries eliminated, it made for a good RP opportunity. Bye bye, Louis XVI.
Night 10:
Falc's SO scans sbr the cursed leader villager.
Capt. Kiwi puts his protection on Adamus the Roleblocker Republican Cultist.
Drxav wants to watch Steed again, which isn't allowed. Kiwi warns him, but he doesn't change it...
... which doesn't matter anyway because Cliges sets a rather complex order, which ultimately was on Daffius, with a backup on Drxav. Daff is dead, so Drxav the padre gets hunted.
tonkatoy5 doesn't go out to play, however, because Adamus doesn't set an order, and his SO is now aimed at tonka, a hangover from several days earlier.
Steed spies on Drxav with a backup of tonka. Initially I realize this means no clue for Steed. I forget to cross him off the list and an hour later have a "Dammit I left my wallet at home!" moment when I think I've forgotten to give Steed his clue. So Steed gets the clue that makes tonka look very bad and he shouldn't have had a clue at all.
Day 11: oh boy. Tonkatoy is virtually a certified baddie, it wasn't looking good for him to begin with, then I gave Steed a clue he shouldn't have had, and then Tonka confirmed that he was a wolf by voting against the GM and saying "you know what you did." I sure did - and thanks to that post, any doubt about tonka's role was removed. Cliges was also pretty high on the list of hirsute suspects. Kiwi got a vote from sbr, which on this day could have changed things, and Cliges voted against Steed, but mostly it was Cliges and Tonka in the running.
sbr set a very detailed series of orders for his leaderlynch. Tonka was to die above all else. Kiwi was second; if there was a tie or tonka wasn't eligible, Kiwi was to die. Cliges was third. This order virtually guaranteed that tonka would go to hell and the game would continue to Day 12. Unfortunately for the village, sbr shifted his vote an hour early and went offline. Cliges and Tonka then sniped onto Cliges and killed him, thereby unleashing the brutality upon sbr. This was an unfortunate outcome for the village, and also IMHO for fun times, since if tonka had been leaderlynched it would still have been a sudden death round where anyone could win. Bear with me as I think it's worth examining: with tonkatoy leaderlynched, and Capt. Kiwi hunted, that leaves Cliges (now exposed) and Adamus against Steed, sbr, and Falc, and Steed has a clue on Adamus the cultist. This is based on the orders as they stood at deadline, the only thing is that tonka wasn't leadered by one vote, which sbr could have changed, so Day 12 very nearly happened. Given the clue Steed would have had, there's a high probability of Adamus being lynched, meaning the game ends with a village victory on Day 13 with two villagers against Cliges, who could either surrender and let both win, or brutalize one so that only one villager wins. However even on Night 12 there's a chance at things going differently, since Falc is blessed meaning 3:1 for Day 13, or sbr is cursed meaning 2:2 wolf victory on Night 12.
Of course this is all hypothetical because ultimately the wolves played their cards right and won on Night 11 with the hunt of Capt. Kiwi, thanks to their ploy of using Cliges' brutal to get the extra kill.
Night 11: the wolves achieved parity here, but I want to note that even with the failure to leaderlynch, it could have gone either way. Capt. Kiwi's SO (his protection was on the brutalized sbr) had dropped down to protecting Falc (who was blessed anyway) so if the wolves had gone after Falc they'd have started Day 12 with 3:2. Again, ultimately the wolves choose correctly, but even after the brutalization of sbr there was a chance for things to swing the other way.
I have no record of a scan from Falc, but I believe he did issue one.
As previously mentioned, Capt. Kiwi the GA protected sbr the cursed leader villager, which went to SO, which went to Falc (for those curious Tonka, then Adamus, then Steed based on SO).
Adamus roleblocked tonka again, so Adamus went out on his own and murdered Capt. Kiwi, achieving parity with Tonka and Adamus against sbr and Falc. Game set match.
Here endeth the lesson.
