The bare essentials for a good space strategy game

[BaronIronmaggot]

PD hasn't done any space grand strategy games yet. This might be our chance to let them know how we would want to have our grand strategy in space and perhaps they will bookmark this thread for future reference and will use our suggestions as a source of inspiration when finally set their sights on the final frontier - the space.

My suggestion:
-Very little pointless "flavor" micro(such as designing ships).

-Random map generation.

-Abstracted warfare with enhanced diplomacy to set it apart from other contenders to the "Ultimate Space Empire Game".

-No individual stuff building. (An overlord of a galactic empire doesn't issue orders like "Build a farm at the Sector Omega, Sub-Sector Omega 5, Cluster Gamma, Star C820, State New Germany, Region Holmburger, County Homestead, Settlement Rorikstead", he says "Improve the economic frameworks where it profits us most with the portion of our budget I have provided you" and the statesmen will calculate by themselves what would be the best to build where).

-No tech trees. The advancement of technology is not choosing a tech from a linear path. Advancement can be spontaneous and deliberate. However one can issue deliberate projects about the technologies the scientists have informed the ruler about and these projects can discover itself too given enough time.

Enough from me for now.

 

[V1ribus]

From my experience, space strategy games go downhill rather quickly; there's also the fact PDS works in a historical context..

 

[aruon]

some of what v1ribus said. though PDS is expanding outside historical sims fairly well right now, and the better true space games can hold up for a long time.

the problem of a space game is generally the entire concept, which in this case would be a cross of grand strategy and space opera genres is difficult to do, and the enormous amount of workload is a daunting task unto itself. look at egosoft's flagship titles, the X3 games (space flight sim/strategy). they were all buggy and byzantine for the longest time, almost intolerably so.
however, since PDS's runemaster uses the Clausewitz engine, proving that it can be utilized in a 3D role, so that is a very good sign.

personally, for a PDS space game, i'd like to see a game combining the visuals and combat gameplay of Leviathan: Battleships (either in 2D or 3D), a realistic resource acquisition & management (on/off planet in/out system mining, wars, etc etc.) and the movement of ships from province to province (what would space provinces be called?) in the traditional grand strategy form. (once again, either in 2D or 3D).

oh, and moddability. someone really needs to give the Sins Of A Solar Empire games a run for their money in that field.

 

[lordmichael95]

oh, and moddability. someone really needs to give the Sins Of A Solar Empire games a run for their money in that field.

No kidding, I bought the original Sons of a Solar Empire (with the nice box artwork and everything). Then recently bought Rebellion, and very few things were changed. Which made me both sad and mad. Even those I got the game on sale with the two little DLC's for $15. I'm still mad at them.

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However, I would would like to add to the OP that there would need to be different internal mechanics for each civ so, we the user fell that there is an actually difference for each one. Maybe one civ is an insect race so it breeds very fast (high population growth) , however it quickly uses up resources on the planet, meaning you have to conquer new systems, or have your people starve. Humans, on the other-hand would have diplomatic elections every X number of years.

In addition, each civ should have various factions (minimum of three) that should battle (in some cases literally) for control of the government.

 

[ringhloth]

Any space strategy game starts with a good case.

A trash can! Yuk yuk yuk.

But really, they're all terrible, and probably always will be. Space is too big for strategy games, especially any that have any pretension to realism, as the very concept of a interstellar empire is ridiculous.

 

[aruon]

But really, they're all terrible, and probably always will be. Space is too big for strategy games, especially any that have any pretension to realism, as the very concept of a interstellar empire is ridiculous.

not really. a space/strategy cross is simply just an untried concept. the most difficult part as far as basic concept development would be IMO, the almost certain use of a 3D "map", and an almost perpetually expanding galaxy.

and how is the concept of a interstellar empire ridiculous? it's not like anyone is a real expert in the subject considering humanity is still a pre-spaceflight civilization. and even just the big sci-fi franchises seen in games and movies/TV have a wide range of star empires to look at, from the fascistic or Nazi-resembling empires, your standard fare republics, monarchies, civilian-military co-ops, yadda yadda yadda.

plus, the UNSC from the Halo franchise is pretty much a solid roadmap to how humanity might make it into space... provided we don't get nuked into the stone age before that can happen.

 

[PhroX]

Well, if PDox were to do a space strategy game (something I would like), the first thing I'd say they need to do is to throw out the tired old "everyone starts with one planet in a otherwise empty universe" idea that pretty much every space 4X game has had since at least MOO1. Instead, create a setting much like the historical ones PDox have used, except IN SPACE. Humanity has already spread across the stars, with nations and coalitions forming. On the edge of human space, there are empty worlds, ripe for colonisation, but in the core of our domain, around Earth, the "colonies" are old and fully developed. Aliens (at least intelligent advanced ones) don't exist. The final frontier belongs to us, but we're fragmented, with a multitude of independant and semi-independant polities, ranging from star empires of dozens of worlds, to fresh colonies, scabbling for their very survival. And you can play any of them.

 

[grisamentum]

I don't think a space game is a good idea simply because space empires / space travel / space warfare / space economics don't really make sense. You might as well just make a "fantasy in space" game ala Warhammer or Dune.

 

[Augustus93]

From my experience, space strategy games go downhill rather quickly; there's also the fact PDS works in a historical context..

Runemaster is so historical...
And it is not even grand strategy, it is an RPG.

 

[ringhloth]

Runemaster is so historical...
And it is not even grand strategy, it is an TRPG.

Bolded the fixed portions.

 

[scarydan]

Well, if PDox were to do a space strategy game (something I would like), the first thing I'd say they need to do is to throw out the tired old "everyone starts with one planet in a otherwise empty universe" idea that pretty much every space 4X game has had since at least MOO1. Instead, create a setting much like the historical ones PDox have used, except IN SPACE. Humanity has already spread across the stars, with nations and coalitions forming. On the edge of human space, there are empty worlds, ripe for colonisation, but in the core of our domain, around Earth, the "colonies" are old and fully developed. Aliens (at least intelligent advanced ones) don't exist. The final frontier belongs to us, but we're fragmented, with a multitude of independant and semi-independant polities, ranging from star empires of dozens of worlds, to fresh colonies, scabbling for their very survival. And you can play any of them.

I would buy this game.

 

[SacredDatura]

However, I would would like to add to the OP that there would need to be different internal mechanics for each civ so, we the user fell that there is an actually difference for each one. Maybe one civ is an insect race so it breeds very fast (high population growth) , however it quickly uses up resources on the planet, meaning you have to conquer new systems, or have your people starve. Humans, on the other-hand would have diplomatic elections every X number of years.

In addition, each civ should have various factions (minimum of three) that should battle (in some cases literally) for control of the government.

This, really. If you make a typical space 4X game it will just feel like a GalCiv clone.

 

[Talar]

I see nothing wrong with a GalCiv clone, but done more Paradox-style of course.

 

[PhroX]

I see nothing wrong with a GalCiv clone, but done more Paradox-style of course.

The problem with a GalCiv clone...well, first off, let me correct that, the problem with a Master of Orion clone - GalCiv, while arguably the finest example of its genre, is still basically just MoO - is that pretty much every space strategy game is one. I mean, seriously, about 18 months ago, I picked up a game called Endless Space. And it was a pretty good game. But I had already played it to death. Nearly 20 years ago. The space strategy genre has barely changed. There's the odd game which tries something a little different, like Sins which merges MoO with a C&C style RTS, but the last space strategy game I can remember that was genuinely different was Emperor of the Fading Suns*. If you want a MoO clone, there are dozens of examples out there for you to play. While I suspect PDox could well do a pretty good job of making one, what would be the point?

Instead, Paradox should take some inspiration from how MoO originated. Microprose had a successful game called Civilization. And someone had the idea that the core mechanics would work fantastically IN SPACE. And so Master of Orion came to be. Paradox should do the same. Rather than sticking with Civ IN SPACE, they should make Europa Universalis IN SPACE. Or even better Victoria IN SPACE.

*Actually thats another idea - get the licence and make EotFS2 - CK2 IN SPACE

 

[Augustus93]

The problem with a GalCiv clone...well, first off, let me correct that, the problem with a Master of Orion clone - GalCiv, while arguably the finest example of its genre, is still basically just MoO - is that pretty much every space strategy game is one. I mean, seriously, about 18 months ago, I picked up a game called Endless Space. And it was a pretty good game. But I had already played it to death. Nearly 20 years ago. The space strategy genre has barely changed. There's the odd game which tries something a little different, like Sins which merges MoO with a C&C style RTS, but the last space strategy game I can remember that was genuinely different was Emperor of the Fading Suns*. If you want a MoO clone, there are dozens of examples out there for you to play. While I suspect PDox could well do a pretty good job of making one, what would be the point?

Instead, Paradox should take some inspiration from how MoO originated. Microprose had a successful game called Civilization. And someone had the idea that the core mechanics would work fantastically IN SPACE. And so Master of Orion came to be. Paradox should do the same. Rather than sticking with Civ IN SPACE, they should make Europa Universalis IN SPACE. Or even better Victoria IN SPACE.

*Actually thats another idea - get the licence and make EotFS2 - CK2 IN SPACE

Combat from the Hearts of Iron series, Empire building from Europa Universalis series, economics from Victoria series, characters from Crusaders Kings series. All of them would need heavy modifications but that game would be epic.

 

[alpermat]

The original vision of Master of Orion 3 was quite good in my opinion: http://moo3.quicksilver.com/game/overview.html. They've failed to deliver a good game, but that's another issue.

The part I like the most is what they call the "imperial focus" which makes a lot of sense. From what I have seen, the most limited resource of an administration is time and focus and that marks the primary trade-off criteria which often lacks at strategy games. This mechanic would also create a natural pressure against large directly managed empires.

On top of this I agree with some of the ideas in this thread.

If there is currently a company that can do a nice space grand strategy, I am sure it is paradox.

 

[SacredDatura]

Never played MoO3, but this does sound great.

Only a limited amount of "Imperial Focus" is available to each player each turn, so players must manage the ultimate resource — their own direct involvement! Therefore, as players build empires, retaining able administrators becomes more important (as does watching their loyalty and ambition!).

 

[Darkrenown]

I really liked the MoO3 design. Fact no one cares about: The official MoO3 forum was where I first started using this username.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

I really liked the MoO3 design. Fact no one cares about: The official MoO3 forum was where I first started using this username.

 

[AndrewT]

PD hasn't done any space grand strategy games yet.

But PI have .... now!
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?858-Ancient-Space