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Tophattingson

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Aug 21, 2012
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This is a refined version of a post I made 6 months ago, taking suggestions from users.

One of the most requested demands for Victoria 3 is implementing a better system of trade, and I am going to outline how this can be done. First though, several things must be redefined.

Regions and Provinces

All regions are to be of equal physical size, with some exceptions for regions that have to be very small for historical reasons. To ensure that this is possible without the resulting map being awful, they will have a much more highly variable number of provinces. In Siberia, regions could be single-province. In Germany, it could be as many as a dozen. The purpose of this is to allow the assumption that travel time between any two adjacent regions is roughly identical, so that the rate of transfer of goods doesn't need to be adjusted by region size.

All provinces have both a farming good and a labouring good, instead of just a single RGO. This allows each individual region to have greater variety of goods available within them.

The Regional Marketplace

The single biggest mechanical change should be this: Places can store goods. Specifically, every single region-country (All of a region within the borders of a single country) has it's own storage of goods. At the game's start, every single region contains 60 days of the Life needs for the people living there. Every region aims to have 60 days worth of goods that are affordable (as calculated by how much people brought on average in the past 3 days in the region). When the amount stockpiled is below 60 days, the price of goods increases a little (more for bigger shortages), and when it's above 60 days, the price decreases a little.

Factories and Labourers immediately sell all goods to the region they are in at that regions current market price. Yes, this does create money out of nothing. People buy goods from the region market place at that region's current market price, and armies must supply themselves from the regional marketplace. Yes, this also destroys money. This economy isn't as good at keeping a balanced book as Victoria 2, but honestly the fact that money had to be created in provinces in Vic2 was never particularly meaningful.

Whenever a good stays in a stockpile without being consumed or traded, 0.1% is removed as spoilage. This is to prevent huge piles of random goods from building up if the world produces more than it consumes.

Trade Between Regions

All adjacent regions almost always have goods of every single type flowing between them, both ways. What changes is the rate of transfer of goods. At it's most general level, goods will overall flow towards provinces where they are more expensive, which are also provinces with shortages.

To give an example of how this permits long trade routes to exist, consider a scenario with 3 regions in a line, west, centre and east. You have iron mines in the west, and a steel factory in the east.
1. Iron mine causes a large dump of iron into that region's economy, causing the price to drop.
2. Central region may not have any real demand for iron, but as iron is still more expensive there, it begins to be transferred from West to Centre.
3. Steel factory in East consumes the stockpile such that there is a shortage, and price of iron there rises.
4. Price of iron in East increases, so it begins to get transferred from centre to west.
5. There is now a long trade route though 3 provinces with iron flowing from West, through centre and to east.
6. Price of iron in the West now increases up to near baseline (as it's getting exported) and in the East, down to near baseline (as it's being imported). There is still a small enough difference, however, for enough goods to flow to match demand.

Basically, a gradient is created where producers are areas of lower prices, consumers are areas of higher prices, and goods want to flow from low to high. A bunch of map modes can be added for every good, which produce a gradient indicating the price in each regional marketplace.

Factors affecting trade between regions

Increased rate of transfer between two regions is caused by the following, in descending order of how powerful the effect is.
1. Greater difference in price of good
2. Higher population (otherwise high populations would consume goods faster than they can import)
3. Presence of Infrastructure (Railroads will only increase good transfer rate, not give an arbitary +16% to throughput)
4. Within a nation's own borders
5. Between nations within the same SOI

A higher rate of transfer is generally beneficial as it reduces the price gradient. Factories will be able to sell goods for more and pops able to purchase goods for less.

The last factor will be tariffs. When you set a tariff, it either blocks trade across borders (if the gradient is lower than the tarrif %, as in this circumstance trade companies lose money by transporting it) or slows trade (if the gradient is higher than the tariff %). The benefit of the tariff is that any goods which are transferred across borders contribute directly to your funds based on what tariff rate you set.

Shipping Lines

To allow goods to be carried over oceans, Shipping Lines need to be set up. These can either be set up by the Country, AI capitalists, or both depending on economic policy. They transfer goods in much the same way as trade between regions, and are set up between any two coastal regions. The rate of transfer is based upon the number of trade ships (either clippers or steamers) assigned to them, and the length of the journey. Depending on who set it up, either the Country or the Capitalists take profit equal to the difference in price between the goods transferred.
 
Wouldn't making every province having two goods, and trade routes with every province, for every province (which is over one thousand) dramatically increase CPU needs? Then imagine one single army sieging a province, instantly 3-4 trade routes are destroyed, meaning that these would have to be seamlessly changed to find new sources for the goods.

It would seem to me that barring major optimization of the remainder of the game, Vicy 3 would then run slower than Vicy 2.

However, I would like to complement you on your well thought out post.
 
Nice suggestions to have more realistic economy.
But I'm afraid this will have too huge impact on performance.
Similar to games like Pride of Nations, or Supreme Ruler, they have nice economy, but for me they are unplayable mainly because of very low speed, especially during wars.
 
Wouldn't making every province having two goods, and trade routes with every province, for every province (which is over one thousand)

This system only uses fixed trade routes at sea. Otherwise REGIONS (never individual provinces) just transfer trade goods with adjacent regions.

dramatically increase CPU needs?

Yes, it would. However, any Victoria 3 is at least 2 years from release. Computers will have grown ~ 8 times stronger between the release of Victoria 2 and Victoria 3, and the Engine that they use is now much better.

Then imagine one single army sieging a province, instantly 3-4 trade routes are destroyed, meaning that these would have to be seamlessly changed to find new sources for the goods.

There are no trade routes between provinces, and besieging a province doesn't stop the whole region. If you besieged every province in the region that would stop the flow of goods, but that is the losses you take for engaging in warfare. There is nothing to prevent good flowing from NOT being seamlessly changed; all the other regions can still trade with each other.
 
You talked about each region having a pool of goods that could last for 60 days. However northern regions have a roughly 300 day period where no goods are being made(late summer and early autumn being the only harvest time). If a northern country only prepares for 60 days, it is gonna be in a world of famine after the winter.

If there is not enough stored food to last till the next harvest it is already turning into a famine.

-----------

But why should we have to assign trade routes by ourselves? Why not just tell it to game logic that every single coastal province is adjecent for the purpose of the trade mechanic? But make it so that costs increase with distance in addition to other cost increasing factors.

For example you are Spain and your motherland provinces want Indian spices. Lets say that Ottomans import them and sell them on to Medditerraen sea without tariffs. Since Ottomans are closer than India then your coastal provinces trade with Ottomans since the distance malus makes it far more cheaper. Should Ottomans put crushing tariffs on spices, your provinces would automatically start trading with the India directly or create a land based chain of spice trading that goes along western Arfican coast to South Africa and there continues as a marine connection with India.
 
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Yes, it would. However, any Victoria 3 is at least 2 years from release. Computers will have grown ~ 8 times stronger between the release of Victoria 2 and Victoria 3, and the Engine that they use is now much better.

You are right, and if its a game built for 64 bit computers... this might not be an issue at all. Okay, logic wins today. But maybe not tomorrow.
 
Baron Ironmaggot
The game doesn't simulate climatic effects like that, so it doesn't matter?

This is a very good idea. I would also suggest, in addition to this trade system, a much broader system of tariffs and embargoes. Countries should be able to set tariff rates on individual countries, set tariff rates for individual goods, and set embargoes on specific countries, products, or a specific product of a specific country. Perhaps the use of tariffs and embargoes could also play into the diplomatic and political systems as follows:

1) Trade policy would now be split into three gradations: Protectionism, Balanced Trade, and Free Trade. Each level would increase/decrease the possible tariff rates, and your embargo abilities would be limited; Free Trade nations could only embargo an enemy in a war, Balanced Trade ones could embargo rivals (nations they have negative relations with), and Protectionist ones can embargo anybody at will.

2) When you raise tariffs or declare embargoes it will increase support for Free Trade among Pops inconvenienced by your choice and will increase support for Protectionism among Pops who benefit from it (those working in that particular industry).

3) Tariffs and embargoes will decrease relations with their target countries, and will do so at a rate appropriate to how much of their income is lost to your policies. Nations which are losing a sufficient amount of revenue may gain (or justify?) a casus belli to open your markets. There you go, Banana Republics, the Opium War (Britain targets China with "End Opium Embargo" casus belli), and retaliatory tariffs all simulated.
 
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Baron Ironmaggot
The game doesn't simulate climatic effects like that, so it doesn't matter?

But the "goods pool" in OP can simulate climatic effects. In the OP it was 60 days. Why not let it be differ region-by-region.

Also, the harvest times should deliver goods to circuation in bursts. For example, nordic countries would dump one large pile of grains into circulation each autumn. Inbetween dumps, no grains are produced.


3) Tariffs and embargoes will decrease relations with their target countries, and will do so at a rate appropriate to how much of their income is lost to your policies. Nations which are losing a sufficient amount of revenue may gain (or justify?) a casus belli to open your markets. There you go, Banana Republics, the Opium War (Britain targets China with "End Opium Embargo" casus belli), and retaliatory tariffs all simulated.

Embargo would also increase relations with a county who is at war with the embargoed target. And would possible open one more diplomatic option - Ask to Embargo X.
 
That could work, and good suggestion with adding embargoes as a diplomatic bribe.

This system could also benefit Sphere of Influence mechanics by allowing more freedoms. Influence in a country could be spent on "buying" concessions (perhaps with the target country being able to refuse at the expense of a relations hit) and nations in a SoI could only be influenced by their master. Concessions would include things like favored trading partner status (where they have to reserve X amount of Y resource for you), lowering their tariffs and revoking embargoes, embargoing your enemies, and of course, various diplomatic and political favors.