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* CKII: Charlemagne Developer Diaries will be released weekly on Wednesdays from now on up to release! *

Welcome to the Charlemagne dev diaries - and above all, welcome to the 8th century!

I'm Tobias Bodlund, scripter on the Crusader Kings II team, and in this first installment of the dev diaries for CKII: Charlemagne I will be talking about the new 769 start date and how we've chosen to represent that historical period in the game.

We've added a bunch of new cultures to the game. A few of these could arguably have been present in The Old Gods already, but going back to 769 we felt we really needed to shake up the map to properly represent the changing cultural landscape of the Early Middle Ages.

sw_eur_cult.png

In Spain we have the Visigoths, and they are in the Iberian rather than the Germanic group, since the Gothic migrations are long since over and they have been living in the peninsula since the early 6th century. With time, Visigothic provinces are likely to eventually become Castilian, Catalan or Andalusian depending on location and which other religious and cultural influences they are subjected to. In northwestern Iberia we also still have the Suebi, an old Germanic people. They have their own culture shift events which may see the rise of Portuguese culture.

Looking north, we have the Franks. They are still Germanic but becoming more and more latinized. You will see them slowly turning into something we call "French"...

Other new cultures you will find are Saxons, Lombards, Picts and Somali. Also, there are no Russians yet, but instead various East Slavic peoples such as the Ilmenians, Severians and Volhynians.

We've revisited cultural dynamics in some other places as well. For example, the emergence of Norman culture is now somewhat more likely than before.

Regarding religion, the old Norse religion in the game is now referred to as Germanic. We decided to do this because with the earlier start date this religion exists well beyond Norse lands (specifically, the Saxons), and the old name also sometimes caused players to confuse it with Norse culture.

Moving further south, the Ibadi faith is now its own religion and no longer a Sunni heresy.

We've also added a new pagan religion, available only in the Charlemagne start. They are the followers of the sun-god Zun, which was historically the Zunbil dynasty in Afghanistan. They start out surrounded by Muslims and Buddhists, and this should provide an interesting and possibly quite difficult start, comparable to the Jewish starts.

And where are the Jews in 769, you ask now - you will find them in Semien in Ethiopia (sometimes referred to as Beta Israel).

religion_map_persia.png

Oh, speaking of the Norse, yes... with the new start date the Viking Age hasn't begun yet. This means that the Norse will initially not be able to launch Viking expeditions overseas. This will change the early game for them as they'll need to focus more on local affairs initially. Don't worry, though, a few decades in things will start happening for them and the continent will properly learn to fear the wrath of the Northmen.

Finally, let's look at some of the large empires in the 8th century:

In 769, the Byzantine Empire is embroiled in what historians call the "First Iconoclasm". This basically means that the emperor and patriarch (and most of the elite) follow the Iconoclast faith, where religious icons are condemned as idolatry much like in Islam. There is a choice for the emperor to either stick with Iconoclasm or renounce it (via a special decision).

Meanwhile, the Abbasids are the great blob of the 8th century. During this time, they historically ruled an area from the Indus in the east to the Maghreb in the west. Though "rule" is perhaps a misleading word in some cases. To reflect the fact that in reality they had limited control over many of their nominal vassals, we have made some of these areas independent in the game. But the Caliph still has plenty of de jure CBs and claims on those areas, so beware...

In Spain, Umayyad rule is fairly recently established, so you have an Arab Muslim dynasty ruling over mainly Visigothic Christian subjects.

europe_map.png

Then there is the Frankish Empire. After Pepin died, his sons Charlemagne and Carloman inherited a kind of joint kingship over the Franks, with each of them ruling directly over a portion of the kingdom. In the game, this means the two brothers each have a king title but also a claim on the other's title. With powerful neighbors such as the Lombards, the Umayyads and the pagan Saxons, things may get very interesting here.

As you can see, the world in 769 is quite different from later starts, with many period-defining events still to unfold. Things such as the Holy Roman Empire (yes, you can found it), Vikings, Normans and Russians are still unheard of. There aren't even that many Karlings yet (!).

The 8th century is a strange and wonderful place. We hope that you'll enjoy it.
 
We're aware of some issues with the South Slavic religion setup as shown in the screenshots and improvements will be made to it before release (yes, this means more Pagans).
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Thenk yuo PDS! ^_^

Grats, you have just shut up several forum complainers. Of course until you publish next map and you get the usual "Province X should not be pagan while province Y should be, because of source Z says..." :laugh:
And this is very much true. :p
 
Nah, too early, that comes in EUIV because in the 14th and 15th centuries Kebab enslaves us.
Our armies got super-drunk in two key battles and were then completely destroyed. xD
 
Religion isn't fixed to land. Don't mix 'germanic' with 'germany'.
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Not to start petty crap, but dude, the name "Germany" comes from the GERMANIC peoples native to the area... so yeah, the words are synonymous. Nobody with even the most basic grasp of the english language could dispute that.

In the same way that "Dutch" and "Deutsch" come from the same word and are synonymous?

And yes, one might be derived from the other, although probably both are derived from a latin description. Would you say "America" is synonymous with "American"? Or "England" with "English"? What about "China" with "Chinese", or "Korea" with "Korean"? Those last two certainly aren't non-ambiguous as to which China or Korea you're talking about.

Then again, "Germanic" is used as a description of more than just "german" culture - it covers an entire language group (including English, Dutch, and possibly even the Scandinavian, but not Finnish, languages); similarly you could have "germanic" religion covering a wider area than (the Kingdom of) Germany, as it would include areas that worship a broadly similar grouping of gods.
 
Message got deleted. Apparently it was racist, though I was personally just parodying usual forum messages.

Oh well, apologies.
"Kebab" is now considered a racial slur. ;_;
Well, at least it tells you how much the "Message of removal" has spread. xD
 
Then again, "Germanic" is used as a description of more than just "german" culture - it covers an entire language group (including English, Dutch, and possibly even the Scandinavian, but not Finnish, languages); similarly you could have "germanic" religion covering a wider area than (the Kingdom of) Germany, as it would include areas that worship a broadly similar grouping of gods.
Exactly. I'd like to add that the word 'Germania' is an exonym; it was borrowed from a Gaulish word to describe some of their neighbours on the other side of the Rhine. It's not exactly an exact term derived from a culture's own practices.

Saying the word 'German' and 'Germanic' are similar if not identical in meaning is quite inaccurate. Their similarity owes more to English peculiarities than any innate quality of 'Germany' or 'anything 'Germanic'.
 
Yes, Ogier will make an appearance. If you play as Charlemagne you can do things with him (maybe even make him King of Denmark), but he will not be playable.

I am saddened by the news that I cannot play as him from the start, but as long as I can land him later and jump over with the console, I don't mind. Not every game has to be an ironman one, after all. I'm guessing something similar will happen to Roland and the rest of the paladins?
 
Yes, Ogier will make an appearance. If you play as Charlemagne you can do things with him (maybe even make him King of Denmark), but he will not be playable.

BUt as king of denmark he will be playable, right? :D

I am saddened by the news that I cannot play as him from the start, but as long as I can land him later and jump over with the console, I don't mind. Not every game has to be an ironman one, after all. I'm guessing something similar will happen to Roland and the rest of the paladins?

Roland WAS landed 769 ;) He would be in Maine, Anjou, Rennes or Nantes. He was the Margrave of the Breton March.
 
This DLC is not quite finished yet, so we may still tweak province religion for some areas.

Please make North Africa more Christian at AD 769. Its only been under Muslim rule for a short while at this point (less than a century), and the region had been *very* Christian, and there are plenty of historical, first-hand accounts of the Christian nature of the population throughout this time period.

Also, please make the cultural situation in the Iberian peninsula a bit more fluid than 'Suebi can become Portuguese and Visigoths can become all the others.'
 
In the same way that "Dutch" and "Deutsch" come from the same word and are synonymous?
Not synonymous, not at least these days. Dutch means Dutch, the people in the Netherlands, but Deutsch is German and means German.
 
Not synonymous, not at least these days. Dutch means Dutch, the people in the Netherlands, but Deutsch is German and means German.

DreadLindwyrm was sarcastic about his quote: 'Not to start petty crap, but dude, the name "Germany" comes from the GERMANIC peoples native to the area... so yeah, the words are synonymous. Nobody with even the most basic grasp of the english language could dispute that.' And this is wrong. German and Germanic aren't synonymous.
 
Not to start petty crap, but dude, the name "Germany" comes from the GERMANIC peoples native to the area... so yeah, the words are synonymous. Nobody with even the most basic grasp of the english language could dispute that.

Germany refers to one region settled by one group (well, several smaller groups) of Germanic people. The Germanic group as a whole is much larger than just Germany, and includes so many different variations that have nothing to do with the modern region/nation of Germany (who, of course, do not call themselves German, but Deutch).

To say they're synonymous rather than related would be to say that all Europeans and Indians are Iranian, because we're all descended from the original Aryan (or proto-Indo-European, to avoid the connotations Aryan now carries) tribes, and Iranian is ultimately just the Persian rendition of Aryan.
 
DreadLindwyrm was sarcastic about his quote: 'Not to start petty crap, but dude, the name "Germany" comes from the GERMANIC peoples native to the area... so yeah, the words are synonymous. Nobody with even the most basic grasp of the english language could dispute that.' And this is wrong. German and Germanic aren't synonymous.
Ah, alright. :D
 
Germany refers to one region settled by one group (well, several smaller groups) of Germanic people. The Germanic group as a whole is much larger than just Germany, and includes so many different variations that have nothing to do with the modern region/nation of Germany (who, of course, do not call themselves German, but Deutch).

To say they're synonymous rather than related would be to say that all Europeans and Indians are Iranian, because we're all descended from the original Aryan (or proto-Indo-European, to avoid the connotations Aryan now carries) tribes, and Iranian is ultimately just the Persian rendition of Aryan.

By his logic English people would be Germans, because they spoke a Germanic language. So English is just German, because Germanic is synonymous to German... Germanic languages = German languages. English is a German dialect!
 
One small fact to point out. Moravia didn't control Slovakia at the time. Nitra was an independent entity until the year 833 when Mojmír conquered it and fromed Great Moravia.
 
We're aware of some issues with the South Slavic religion setup as shown in the screenshots and improvements will be made to it before release (yes, this means more Pagans).


Hallelujah! Perhaps SS. Cyril and Methodius can make an appearance?
 
Great Moravia.

Question for Devs regarding current "tribal titles" like Great Moravia. Will these stay Tribal as they are without de-jure drift being possible or turn into "formable" titles with Charlemagne. So could you start a game as Great Moravia and attempt to retain it's title and nice CoA and if you manage to stick around for 100 years, get your de-jure "Great Moravia" into existence?