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OttoVonBismarck'97

Second Lieutenant
42 Badges
Oct 4, 2015
114
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  • Crusader Kings II
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  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
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  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
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Hey guys!! as a long time total war player, and a relative newcomer to Paradox games, i'd like to hear your thoughts on both series. I personally couldn't bring myself to play Total War anymore after playing Europa Universalis IV because it's on a whoooole other league than Total War, but i'm starting to make a sort of comeback to TW since i can't afford the other PDS games at the moment
 
My advice, play Paradox games, wait for/start a war and when a battle occurs, pause.
Launch related TW game, create custom battle, use about same troops as in your Paradox game and play it.
Then unpause paradox game and hope the result is about the same.
 
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Apples and oranges. TW is about battles. Pds games are about grand strategy.

I choose the latter, but it is a choice about a genre, not about two similar games.
 
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I play and enjoy them both. Or, at least I enjoyed the TW series until Empire: TW.

Actually, I'm currently obsessively playing RTW with the Europa Barbarorum mod lately. All these years later and I'm still enjoying that game.

But, I still get better "bang for buck" in replay-ability from the Paradox grand strat games. In terms of money spent for time spent in playing, nothing beats Paradox Grand Strategy games for me.
 
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PDS games cover long time periods and a lot of aspects. The studio is mod friendly and has a long tradition of balanced, working and community based games. The games incluude more or less advanced aspects of elements such as economy, diplomacy, internal politics and warfare. Each decision or event you take will have an impact, and you can feel immersed in the game. There is also a huge modding community thanks to the openess and moddability. The timeframe is usually large enough for you to play hours and hours, and when it is not it is nicely designed at a lower price and additional replayability. Each ands every game has a dedicated community here on the forums or across the web. The PDS games are grand strategy after all, in real-time. There is also a lot of customization and alt-history possibilities to all PDS games. Development teams continously update the game regularly for free. The games are historical to a certain degree, while allowing for dynamic alternatives.

Total War/CA is centered around battles with the rest being fluff. It is a bit of a mix and match with various other things attached to it. These games are only strategy, not grand. They are directed towards a vaster crowd in a streamlined American company way. You don't have to know history to play them, and if you know some, it will be a disadvantage as there are weird ahistorical or pseudo-historical elements.


TL,DR: Take CA for battles, take PDS for a complete experience
 
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I play and enjoy them both. Or, at least I enjoyed the TW series until Empire: TW.

Actually, I'm currently obsessively playing RTW with the Europa Barbarorum mod lately. All these years later and I'm still enjoying that game.

But, I still get better "bang for buck" in replay-ability from the Paradox grand strat games. In terms of money spent for time spent in playing, nothing beats Paradox Grand Strategy games for me.

Ahhhh Europa Barbarorum, what a masterpiece of modding, it's easily on my top 5 list of mods. takes the game to a WHOLE other level, i haven't been able to go back to vanilla since getting that mod

But i stopped playing the original Rome, and now i find Rome II with the new Divide Et Impera update a really amazing time, it makes Rome II easily the best ancient world-based strategy game. it's the Europa Barbarorum for Rome II
 
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By the way, it has been a long time since I last played TW games. Has the AI improved so that you dont sweep the floor with it on every battle?
 
Apples and oranges.

Except the apples are fresh of the trees and delicious while the oranges are rotten and have been for almost a decade. Except that one time a few years back when the orange tree produced a single sweet fruit, but that one was as tiny as it was sweet - barely even a single bite, not nearly enough to satisfy anyone's hunger.


Also I'm convinced that Europa Barbarorum is the best mod ever created for any game ever. I challenge you to show me any mod that comes even close to EB by any objective standard (i.e. "I don't like X-genre" doesn't count).


.....


No, seriously, if you think that there is a serious contender for that title please tell me, I would like to play it. :p
 
Kaiserreich maybe?? I wholeheartedly agree that EB is the single best mod of all time, but Kaiserreich is the only mod for a paradox game I would stick to and play alot (also maybe Reign Of The Ancients for EU:Rome)


Also Europa Barbarorum II seems to be taking everything great about EB1 and putting it on a whole other level. My only issue with it is the completely screwed unit cohesion and pathfinding that medieval II is infamous for
 
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Hey guys!! as a long time total war player, and a relative newcomer to Paradox games, i'd like to hear your thoughts on both series. I personally couldn't bring myself to play Total War anymore after playing Europa Universalis IV because it's on a whoooole other league than Total War, but i'm starting to make a sort of comeback to TW since i can't afford the other PDS games at the moment

Total war Games are only good for their tactical combat. Paradox are known for complex over arching strategy/diplomacy/trade/ect. Stellaris might be the best of both worlds though....Only time will tell. If you want your combat fix, I highly recommend Total War games. If you truly want to manage an empire and watch it grow with a more dynamic world. That is paradox
 
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I started off with RTW back in high school and shifted over to PDS games with Victoria 2 a couple of years ago and didn't touch a TW game for about a year or so after that. Had a brief stint with R2TW when it came out but haven't bothered to buy Attila and definitely won't be buying the Warhammer game they're coming out with...I've only recently been able to bring myself to play TW games again in the past couple of months, but for specific reasons, such as the new sub mods that have been coming out for Third Age Total War. Still a blast, but nothing can compare to Vicky2! Makes Empire look like an elaborate joke.
 
Ahhhh Europa Barbarorum, what a masterpiece of modding, it's easily on my top 5 list of mods. takes the game to a WHOLE other level, i haven't been able to go back to vanilla since getting that mod

But i stopped playing the original Rome, and now i find Rome II with the new Divide Et Impera update a really amazing time, it makes Rome II easily the best ancient world-based strategy game. it's the Europa Barbarorum for Rome II

I played around with Europa Barbarorum 2 beta when it first released. Looks like it's going to be the next must have mod for me too. But, I'm gonna wait until it's finished to give it a serious go.
 
Kaiserreich maybe?? I wholeheartedly agree that EB is the single best mod of all time, but Kaiserreich is the only mod for a paradox game I would stick to and play alot (also maybe Reign Of The Ancients for EU:Rome)


Also Europa Barbarorum II seems to be taking everything great about EB1 and putting it on a whole other level. My only issue with it is the completely screwed unit cohesion and pathfinding that medieval II is infamous for

I have the exact same problem. I want to love EB2, as it is superior to EB1 in pretty much all areas, except for the battles: units can't keep formation, they often don't form battle lines and everything becomes an unorganized mess. And as you mentioned, that's a problem of Med 2's engine, a problem which Rome 1 didn't have... but still, I don't want to play EB1 because its campaign is inferior to that of EB2, it's just the battles that are the other way around. :mad:
 
our grand children will probably be able to play grand strategy games with battles


and that would be how human existence would end becuase nobody would have time for anything else to do
 
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I came over here around that time when CA decided they want to destroy the modding community because it's a problem for them that modders can do better work than their employees... :)
 
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There are aspects I think the TW games do better (chiefly nomads), but generally paradox games are deeper and more complex.
 
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I used to play total war titles (not so much anymore at the moment) and I would sum it up like this: I play Paradox games for the gameplay and total war games for the atmosphere. For me, campaigns in a TW game have the main purpose to create dynamic battle scenarios. The battles themselves don't have a real strategical value, they can be tricky sometimes if you need to micro-manage your troops a lot (you can pause all the time but that in turn has a negative impact on the atmosphere), but in general beating the AI is trivial. The strength of TW is that it's like an interactive Hollywood movie which can create great looking and sounding battles. I'd actually go as far as to say that TW is badly designed as a game, but still it is worth to be played.

Medieval 2 is my favourite game of the series with Rome and Empire coming second and third respectively. I did enjoy Empire TW, but I still regard it as an unfinished game with strange design decisions, e.g. the way the map is designed has such a big negative impact on gameplay. Too huge provinces (France!), too many empty areas on the map (South America cut off, no Sub-Saharan Africa, and what really hurts is that Russia is cut off at the Urals, Central Asia is wasteland [wtf?] and East Asia doesn't exist). After Empire, I didn't really play any of the newer titles, instead playing Medieval with mods.
 
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I used to play total war titles (not so much anymore at the moment) and I would sum it up like this: I play Paradox games for the gameplay and total war games for the atmosphere. For me, campaigns in a TW game have the main purpose to create dynamic battle scenarios. The battles themselves don't have a real strategical value, they can be tricky sometimes if you need to micro-manage your troops a lot (you can pause all the time but that in turn has a negative impact on the atmosphere), but in general beating the AI is trivial. The strength of TW is that it's like an interactive Hollywood movie which can create great looking and sounding battles. I'd actually go as far as to say that TW is badly designed as a game, but still it is worth to be played.

Medieval 2 is my favourite game of the series with Rome and Empire coming second and third respectively. I did enjoy Empire TW, but I still regard it as an unfinished game with strange design decisions, e.g. the way the map is designed has such a big negative impact on gameplay. Too huge provinces (France!), too many empty areas on the map (South America cut off, no Sub-Saharan Africa, and what really hurts is that Russia is cut off at the Urals, Central Asia is wasteland [wtf?] and East Asia doesn't exist). After Empire, I didn't really play any of the newer titles, instead playing Medieval with mods.
Gee I wonder why you think the total war games are bad if you only played the ones that were broken easy.
 
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Gee I wonder why you think the total war games are bad if you only played the ones that were broken easy.

I'm just saying they are not good from a purely game-focused perspective. You know? "Game" as in the actual meaning of the word. Not to be mistaken with "computer game" which is often used in a broader sense. In a game, there is usually some kind of competition, some aims and rules and strategical thoughts are beneficial or even required to succeed. If these aspects are not very fleshed out, then I regard the product as "not a good game". If it is entertaining to play however, and if it can create a great atmosphere, then it is still good as a computer game - which is really a very broadly used term which refers to any kind of software that is in some way interactive and fun. And I'm not trying to belittle the TW series by saying that, but the distinction is really important for me.

I didn't play them, but I'm somewhat familiar with the more recent total war titles but I don't have the impression that they have a different focus. Maybe Shogun 2 is a more strategical game (I'm not sure), but definitely not Rome 2 and Attila.