Science Cruiser?

[Just a Joke]

Would we be able to build a Star Trek type "cruiser with science lab" in stellaris, as DD#7 shows that science ship is "civilian"?
In some other 4x games, like distant world, survey ship may suffer a high loss rate as they are very disposable and become useless in later game, but in stellaris science ships with lead scientist on board are too important to lost. As something bad may happen during survey and research, science ship also need to get into old battlefield to perform reverse engineering with obvious risk, so I think an "reliable" science ship may need extra aromr, speed, self-defence weapon and marine company on board, that's the reason why a modified cruiser could be a good idea.
Though escort ship helps a lot, it's still much easier for a modified cruiser to survive a pirate or enemy raid than a civilian ship.

 

[Milten]

On one hand, you are right there are no non-meta reasons to limit ship's size. On the other hand why stop at cruiser?

Spoiler

"During research of local healing plants we've accidentally captured a planet, sir!"

 

[aruon]

so basically take a warship, outfit it with a state-of-the-art science lab, and (maybe) slap a "civilian use only" sticker on? i can get behind that.

it really shouldn't be too much of a stretch since sci-fi ship get odd refits and retrofits all the time. halos' phoenix class colony ships got small MAC cannons, MEs normandy SR-2 got an entire section replaced with what was essentially the nerve center of several militaries coordinated efforts, some of star treks' ships like the galaxy-class were distinctly meant to be almost omni-purpose in usage.

 

[FelixG]

On one hand, you are right there are no non-meta reasons to limit ship's size. On the other hand why stop at cruiser?

Spoiler

"During research of local healing plants we've accidentally captured a planet, sir!"

"One of our shuttles encountered intelligent life! There...were some complications."

 

[bz249]

I cannot imagine a purpose built warship being good at acting as a science laboratory... because you have limited space where you either puts a gun or an electron microscope (note that precise scientific instruments require quite a lot of shielding from the disturbances at the other side). A science ship against a warship should be a pretty one sided match.

On the other hand civilian ships being completely defenseless would be also strange in a dangerous Galaxy. Indeed no weapons on merchant ships is a pretty new idea coming from the elimination of large scale piracy. So I hope that science vessels and even merchants carry some weaponary (like an East Indiamen laughable against a dedicated warship of the same size, but still a tough nut to crack for a random pirate) and can be used as third rate warships in certain situations.

 

[kreissig]

I cannot imagine a purpose built warship being good at acting as a science laboratory... because you have limited space where you either puts a gun or an electron microscope (note that precise scientific instruments require quite a lot of shielding from the disturbances at the other side). A science ship against a warship should be a pretty one sided match.

On the other hand civilian ships being completely defenseless would be also strange in a dangerous Galaxy. Indeed no weapons on merchant ships is a pretty new idea coming from the elimination of large scale piracy. So I hope that science vessels and even merchants carry some weaponary (like an East Indiamen laughable against a dedicated warship of the same size, but still a tough nut to crack for a random pirate) and can be used as third rate warships in certain situations.

^^Touché

 

[qer]

Actually it makes a lot of sense that science ships are actually good in combat. You are going to send then to explore the unknown after all, and you may need the sufficient firepower to fence off most pirate attacks which you can only bring on big ships

 

[Cuthuthulu]

Our science ships are in the midst of conducting Ballistics research on the nearby inhabited planet.

 

[Just a Joke]

Actually, I've tried similar idea in Aurora. The outcome focused on heavier armor and CIWS, main purpose is to survive and escape engagement, not to defeat a dedicated warship. Scientific equipment, fuel and crew quarter took large space (science ship need much longer mission period), so it should focus on survive.
The reason I would prefer a "cruiser" is that ship number really matters. A super science battleship may won any engagement, but not provide enough research points comparing to several modified cruisers.

 

[bz249]

Actually it makes a lot of sense that science ships are actually good in combat. You are going to send then to explore the unknown after all, and you may need the sufficient firepower to fence off most pirate attacks which you can only bring on big ships

Well in sinking the Bismarck the HMS Rodney suffered non-insignificant damage as a result of the shaking caused by her own gunfire. And Rodney was a battleship hardened for this purpose. Imagine if she would ha e been loaded with sensitive scientific instruments. ;-)

Fighting pitched battles should severly affect the research equipment and at some point they should wear down. A research ship should avoid combat whenever possible (though completely defenseless would also be irrational from an in-game perspective)

Something like Columbus or Cook's ships.

 

[Velorian]

I cannot imagine a purpose built warship being good at acting as a science laboratory... because you have limited space where you either puts a gun or an electron microscope (note that precise scientific instruments require quite a lot of shielding from the disturbances at the other side). A science ship against a warship should be a pretty one sided match.

On the other hand civilian ships being completely defenseless would be also strange in a dangerous Galaxy. Indeed no weapons on merchant ships is a pretty new idea coming from the elimination of large scale piracy. So I hope that science vessels and even merchants carry some weaponary (like an East Indiamen laughable against a dedicated warship of the same size, but still a tough nut to crack for a random pirate) and can be used as third rate warships in certain situations.

A science ship should lose to a military ship of similar size (and tech). On the other hand you should be allowed to install state-of-the-art weapons and protections to give it a chance to survive such an encounter and to beat anything smaller than it. The trade-off would be that it's expensive as hell, so you wouldn't want to use it unless it was actually guarding an important scientist.

I'm sure the science equipment can be strapped down before an engagement, it's not supposed to fight often, just be able to defend itself and drive off weaker opponents.

 

[Kuschelflummi]

Experimental Weapons and such for science Ships!

 

[bz249]

A science ship should lose to a military ship of similar size (and tech). On the other hand you should be allowed to install state-of-the-art weapons and protections to give it a chance to survive such an encounter and to beat anything smaller than it. The trade-off would be that it's expensive as hell, so you wouldn't want to use it unless it was actually guarding an important scientist.

I'm sure the science equipment can be strapped down before an engagement, it's not supposed to fight often, just be able to defend itself and drive off weaker opponents.

Here is the example, one the most important real life science ship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Beagle

she was nowhere near a battleship even at the beginning, but upon she received the scientist (though not as a captain, but in Stellaris Darwin would be the ship captain) her original firepower i reduced by 30%. So I guess able to fend of one class smaller ships seems to be a nice and realistic choice.

 

[Velorian]

Here is the example, one the most important real life science ship

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Beagle

she was nowhere near a battleship even at the beginning, but upon she received the scientist (though not as a captain, but in Stellaris Darwin would be the ship captain) her original firepower i reduced by 30%. So I guess able to fend of one class smaller ships seems to be a nice and realistic choice.

I'm not sure a sail-ship can really be compared with a space ship, though it was an interesting read, I like that he requested brass cannons which were denied.

I guess with how important these research missions are to the entire empire, and how few are active at a time, that they'd be built to the full capability of the empire, no expenses spared. It could be that it would be a match for a similar sized ship of either lower tech or just cheaper parts.

They said we could design our own ships, but I'm not sure if there'll be trade-offs where you'd be genuinely tempted to pick something sub-optimal because it's cheaper, like happened in the real world.

 

[EntropyAvatar]

Ships in Stellaris come in 3 sections, probably something like in SotS. If it followed the SotS model, there would be an engine section, a mission section and a command section. A science cruiser would probably be modeled as a lightly-armed engine section, an unarmed and lightly armored Science mission section, and a modestly armed command section. Lacking a heavily armed and protected central section would make it a poor combatant, but it wouldn't be completely helpless.

 

[kreissig]

Ships in Stellaris come in 3 sections, probably something like in SotS. If it followed the SotS model, there would be an engine section, a mission section and a command section. A science cruiser would probably be modeled as a lightly-armed engine section, an unarmed and lightly armored Science mission section, and a modestly armed command section. Lacking a heavily armed and protected central section would make it a poor combatant, but it wouldn't be completely helpless.

I would be inclined to think you correct on this.

 

[Aries666]

Federation science vessels were lightly armed and I guess the reasoning would be to defend against minor threats such as pirates and to be able to survive long enough to disengage from greater threats such as warships. Also light shielding and energy weapons are not just useful for combat purposes.

 

[Just a Joke]

Any idea from DD?