Looks like an excellent change to the supply system.
I also appreciate your good choice of scotch
I also appreciate your good choice of scotch
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If you bomb Romania Germany will still be able to produce oil units, just at a penalty. Strategic resources represents having a good supply not whether you have any of the resource at all. If you dont have strategic resources you produce at a penalty as you resort to expensive substitutes like coal conversion.
So you can still build tanks even if you have no oil? Thus "refueling" your divisions that need oil by still building replacements?
Only its with a penalty? I guess thats better. I just didnt think thats how it worked. I thought if you had no chromium, or oil, you simply couldnt build what required it. Making Oil the most important thing on the map, being needed in the construction of everything other than arty and inf equipment.
Only its with a penalty? I guess thats better. I just didnt think thats how it worked. I thought if you had no chromium, or oil, you simply couldnt build what required it. Making Oil the most important thing on the map, being needed in the construction of everything other than arty and inf equipment.
There is one thing that have become much clear. Can you import supplies? Do your exceeding supplies automatically go to your allied countries? And if that is not enough, can you buy supply from a neutral party?
So if I understood this well the HOI III supply system was scrapped in everything but a few concepts (like needing an overseas port to receive long-term supply overseas (etc.), no supplies when 100% enveloped and bottlenecks) in favor of porting the EU IV supply "system" to HOI IV (infra "building" affects base supply, terrain affects base supply, base supply affects attrition, etc.) but with the addition of on/off "supply" switches that dictate if a unit can fight (...) and how well.
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You can't have no oil. You can have none of the strategic oil resource.
So if you have none of the strategic oil resource you still have sources of oil, they just aren't good sources. Maybe there is a trickle of oil coming from your wells despite the bombing campaign. Maybe you have expensive underground fuel plants to supply your jet fighters. It's impossible to completely cut off the supply of oil without basically destroying the countries economy anyway.
If a unit is in a region where the supply demand exceeds the supply system's ability to meet that demand, the unit will start to accumulate "out of supply" penalties. These penalties can apparently get very high. So a unit that is cut off behind enemy lines will be getting increasing penalties to movement, org loss, attrition losses and combat efficiency. Just moving around provokes attrition and org losses (probably worse when moving into enemy-controlled territory) and a unit that is out of supply will be taking worse losses in both categories.
That doesnt make any sense if theres no fuel.
Theres only the strategic resource oil. So do you get a certain number of strategic oil resources from coal conversion?
Theres only the strategic resource oil. So do you get a certain number of strategic oil resources from coal conversion?
I would guess (but dont know) that coal conversion would be represented by "can build without oil resources". The cost of building your jet airplanes go up because you are not only building the planes but also building the conversion plants to supply the planes.
You can't import, give or buy supplies because there is no such thing as supplies. There is a measure of how 'in supply' you are based on your location, but you never build supplies, just equipment.
Stockpiling isn't so much the point, but that taking huge loses equals huge oil requirement regardless of actual strategic movement. So if you take the historical Blitzkrieg campaigns as an example Germany would end up needing less oil than the opponent who lost more tanks he has to replace, even though the German army is the one that made the sweeping strategic advances that should strain fuel supplies.
The opposite is true in the game failing to model how the German army and air force could only mount limited offensives for lack of fuel in a '45 type situation, with the current model rather encouraging than preventing you from throwing everything into large scales offensives to even the odds as much as possible.
One of the dev diaries showed 'synthetic plants' that took up a factory slot and generated oil and rubber resources.
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So no oil. No conversion. That means no tanks, planes or boats can be built until Italy imports some, or captures some right?
Now. The AI obviously wont be instructed to buy up all the worlds oil so you cant have any, but, A) players will in MP, and B) realistically it should...
Thats a pretty serious problem. It makes oil waaaay more useful than it actually should be, for gameplay. That might be realistic (and realism is a give and take game) but thats going to be really frustrating.
Especially playing minors in MP, with experienced players. You can build synth plants though to solve this problem. But thats not a "choice" you see, from a gameplay perspective. Thats just clicks for clicks sake. Theres not alot going on there gameplay wise.
When there was oil AND fuel AND conversion, no one was left without (rares was the problem then, since you couldnt build much of anything without rares and it was scarce) and you could (easier in mp and mods) attack the specific type of thing to bring down your enemy depending on the situation and their expansion and strategy.
Now, it seems like "oil" is HOI3s "rares". Since by stopping you oil, I effectively stop you from building anything. If I already have strat bombers bombing your oil, and you put up a synth plant, thats not hard to transition to. And it piles on your problems exponentionally.
I bomb you oil, you need fighters to stop me, well, you cant build any more fighters because im bombing your oil, so I bomb your oil more. Now your front line is cracking because your trucks and tanks arent being replaced.
Thats bad from a gameplay point of view. Theres no chance for a losing player to make a comeback, and it makes bombing anything OTHER than oil related things, pointless.
Why bomb a naval factory making ships, when I can bomb the oil and prevent the naval factory from even doing anything.
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I think missing a strategic resource only lowers production, doesn't prevent it entirely (unless you are missing all the resources needed for that type of production). I might be wrong about that though.
In any case, Italy can build some synthetic plants to get oil, but that reduces max potential industry.
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"Mrs Clinton did you account for the fact that in 1936 the Italians held Benghazi in your consulate security?"
"No I fail to see ....."
"HA GOTCHA. Shocking neglect."
Good dev dairy though.
"No I fail to see ....."
"HA GOTCHA. Shocking neglect."
Good dev dairy though.
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If thats true, thats not as bad, but still compounds the problem and oil being used in everything but inf and arty, means its more important to bomb than any other resource. If you can still build tanks that say, require 1 tung, 1 steel, 1 oil, with just steel, or just steel and tungsten just slowly, well ok, thats a tad better.
And I guess it matters just how much damage strat bombers or paras can do.
Paradropping your synth plants, seems like a surefire way to win a war really, really fast.
The system itself seems great, im just worried about some of the classic HOI3 problems. Like the gamey paradropping, air supply, infraspam, rares necessity, and the trade game being compelling.
It seems like paradropping will still be stronk, logi bombing is replaced with strat bombing, air supply isnt shown yet so no opinion, infraspam is still a Thing(TM), oils are the new rares, and the trade AI...who knows.
Hype is declining in these quarters.
And a sweeping strategic retreat does not strain fuel supplies? If Germans move an inch forward, the French move an inch back, unless it's an encirclement, in which case the encirclement will capture French supply depots located close to the frontline.
Germany was, in fact, trying to throw everything it had into large-scale offensives, to "even out the odds" and come to a negotiated peace.
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I dont see how paradropping would be gamey. If the Germans hadn't garrisoned Romania you can bet your ass it would have been swarming with Commandos. And keep in mind that the effects of lost resources dont happen immediately, it takes 30 days for the full decline to be felt. So 1 day suicide occupations will not be a winning strategy.
And the Strategic bombing thing looks to me like working as designed. Deprive your opponent of oil through strategic bombing and their economy suffers. Sounds good to me.
Well its the paradropping VCs for insta annex, or paradropping provinces that in one swoop, sign the death warrant of a nation.
You cant stop people from building all paratroop armies and dropping behind entire front lines with air supply. Unless you put a max hard count on para divisions.
And of course in real life, strategic bombing had very little effect. Thats no good for gameplay, but if you make one thing the most obvious target, thats all people will bomb, thus robbing you of choice, and interesting gameplay, trying to strike the things that neuter your opponents strategy.
Germany goes for Kriegsmarine? Bomb the oil.
They go for Sealion? Bomb the oil.
They have panzers? Bomb the oil.
Luftwaffe is stronk? Bomb the oil.
Motorized divisions got you down? Bomb the oil.
Whereas id rather it be, bomb the naval factories, bomb the land factories, bomb the airfields, bomb the infrastructure, and see benefits directly related to what the other guy is doing. Not just the same one size fits all solution to everything.
You cant stop people from building all paratroop armies and dropping behind entire front lines with air supply. Unless you put a max hard count on para divisions.
And of course in real life, strategic bombing had very little effect. Thats no good for gameplay, but if you make one thing the most obvious target, thats all people will bomb, thus robbing you of choice, and interesting gameplay, trying to strike the things that neuter your opponents strategy.
Germany goes for Kriegsmarine? Bomb the oil.
They go for Sealion? Bomb the oil.
They have panzers? Bomb the oil.
Luftwaffe is stronk? Bomb the oil.
Motorized divisions got you down? Bomb the oil.
Whereas id rather it be, bomb the naval factories, bomb the land factories, bomb the airfields, bomb the infrastructure, and see benefits directly related to what the other guy is doing. Not just the same one size fits all solution to everything.
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