I haven't been around much on the forums, so apologies if this has been discussed already. I'm curious as to what the reasoning is for having a simplified resource base for expenditures, as opposed to a more V2-like system, with money (or a similar representation of value like, i suppose, energy credits?) on the top and then a global market where everyone exports their produced surplus, and you have to import what you need in order to build and supply your people. This could form a nice basis for trade deals and strategic incentives for taking certain planets.
- Example 1: Traxian crystals are a key component of warp drives, so empires relying on warp might want that planet rich in Traxian crystals for their fleet. Other empires might want to own it to prevent the warp-based empire from efficiently maintaining their massive fleet. And if it's already owned? Well, you might want to secure a trade agreement with the nation owning the Traxian crystals so you can get access to them before others, so you can build your ships. Maybe exchange for credits or
- Example 2: Your empire, consisting of the Kamenari people, has recently integrated, or enslaved, or annexed the Jaluz people into its fold - however, the standard Kamenari food base, FoodType1, is toxic to the Jaluz, so you need to secure a different food resource, FoodType2 (apologies for lack of creativity), or your Jaluz pops will suffer whatever the effects are from having little food available, while your Kamenari citizens may have enough food (of course, providing food to a subordinate race is a... lesser concern). Again, trade or conquest of relevant planets, can be a way to get what you need.
- Example 3: You produce a lot of Actinoid Metals, and you are approached by a militaristic nation that would like to, hmm, relieve you of their burden, as they need Actinoids for their weapon systems. Of course, they are not a big threat to your glorious empire, so they cannot intimidate you into this, but you figure, hey, why not try for a deal? Of course, you have it from certain not-to-be-named sources that their nation produces a lot of excess Noble Gases you could use in some of your more hi-tech industries, so you propose a trade of one for the other.
As you can see I also introduced the concept of different food types that different species might enjoy. Not one per species, of course, but if every species belongs to one of X food types (might even be procedurally generated) you would have to make that consideration.
Of course, beyond just trade or conquest, you could build industries on planet tiles to produce certain manufactured goods from raw materials, or plant certain crops meant for certain people. Raw materials can be represent a group of elements or goods (like certain groups of elements that have similar properties/applications) to avoid clutter - like Actinides or Noble Gases (no idea if those specifically are sensible but, eh, you know, for example's sake) but also single, more special stuff you'd need in your production lines, like the aforementioned Traxian crystals for warp drives, and so on.
Of course unlike V2, pops (as I understand it) aren't heavily modeled so you would not have the same amount of needing to present your pops with specific goods to keep them alive and happy, but maybe producing enough Electronics means you get a small bonus to happiness?
So what's the difference from this to the system as described in the dev diaries, with food, minerals and energy credits, and rare resources that give you certain boosts to certain things? Well, for one, there's a diversification that means not every empire just produces generic minerals all over the place, which can feel plain, they only produce specific types of it, which gives more variety and strategic options - or even strategic needs. You want to build those battleships? You either have to suck it up to some nation that produces the stuff you need (or conquer something), go colonize an uninhabited planet with those materials, or exploit a protectorate. Or just buy in small chunks off what's provided to the interstellar market. Rare resources may already fill this gap a little - but they are (as far as I can see) about %bonuses, not stuff you actually need to construct and maintain stuff, which is what minerals and energy creds are.
Another example; while others squabble for the types of matter needed to build weapons, a small nation may instead choose to secure exclusive import agreements of goods needed to fuel certain consumer/luxury industries whose produce is in demand - this they can then export at a profit. Their status would also make them a less desirable target to attack; even if you conquer their industries you may not be able to produce as much since you don't sit on the same import agreements to secure the raw goods needed to produce stuff (and you may never get those agreements, since your conquest just drove the Klixxar Federation president's favorite holoscreen company into ruin). Also of course such a nation might have laws and tech and a population with a work ethic that allows above-average industrial production, at perhaps the cost of things such as military. And maybe if it dislikes a nation it can sanction it and stop its goods from being exported in that nation's general direction (in return for a CB or something...)
As a note, most planets would probably produce a little of most raw goods (since it's an entire planet afterall), which in itself is no different than every planet just producing, well, minerals - the difference lies in the fact that some planets would produce more or less of certain resources needed for certain things, giving differing goods-related strategic values (beyond just "more or less matter" or "was I lucky enough that a rare resource spawned here?"), and depending on industries they could churn out certain manufactured goods like electronics or ship parts (a planet with copper or gold would of course be better at producing electronics since the raw goods are close by).
As a final note, I don't necessarily think the current way of doing it (as presented so far anyway) is bad, I rather like it, but I wonder why a more elaborate economy like V2, wasn't chosen - and also, what you think of my personal suggestions to it all?
- Example 1: Traxian crystals are a key component of warp drives, so empires relying on warp might want that planet rich in Traxian crystals for their fleet. Other empires might want to own it to prevent the warp-based empire from efficiently maintaining their massive fleet. And if it's already owned? Well, you might want to secure a trade agreement with the nation owning the Traxian crystals so you can get access to them before others, so you can build your ships. Maybe exchange for credits or
- Example 2: Your empire, consisting of the Kamenari people, has recently integrated, or enslaved, or annexed the Jaluz people into its fold - however, the standard Kamenari food base, FoodType1, is toxic to the Jaluz, so you need to secure a different food resource, FoodType2 (apologies for lack of creativity), or your Jaluz pops will suffer whatever the effects are from having little food available, while your Kamenari citizens may have enough food (of course, providing food to a subordinate race is a... lesser concern). Again, trade or conquest of relevant planets, can be a way to get what you need.
- Example 3: You produce a lot of Actinoid Metals, and you are approached by a militaristic nation that would like to, hmm, relieve you of their burden, as they need Actinoids for their weapon systems. Of course, they are not a big threat to your glorious empire, so they cannot intimidate you into this, but you figure, hey, why not try for a deal? Of course, you have it from certain not-to-be-named sources that their nation produces a lot of excess Noble Gases you could use in some of your more hi-tech industries, so you propose a trade of one for the other.
As you can see I also introduced the concept of different food types that different species might enjoy. Not one per species, of course, but if every species belongs to one of X food types (might even be procedurally generated) you would have to make that consideration.
Of course, beyond just trade or conquest, you could build industries on planet tiles to produce certain manufactured goods from raw materials, or plant certain crops meant for certain people. Raw materials can be represent a group of elements or goods (like certain groups of elements that have similar properties/applications) to avoid clutter - like Actinides or Noble Gases (no idea if those specifically are sensible but, eh, you know, for example's sake) but also single, more special stuff you'd need in your production lines, like the aforementioned Traxian crystals for warp drives, and so on.
Of course unlike V2, pops (as I understand it) aren't heavily modeled so you would not have the same amount of needing to present your pops with specific goods to keep them alive and happy, but maybe producing enough Electronics means you get a small bonus to happiness?
So what's the difference from this to the system as described in the dev diaries, with food, minerals and energy credits, and rare resources that give you certain boosts to certain things? Well, for one, there's a diversification that means not every empire just produces generic minerals all over the place, which can feel plain, they only produce specific types of it, which gives more variety and strategic options - or even strategic needs. You want to build those battleships? You either have to suck it up to some nation that produces the stuff you need (or conquer something), go colonize an uninhabited planet with those materials, or exploit a protectorate. Or just buy in small chunks off what's provided to the interstellar market. Rare resources may already fill this gap a little - but they are (as far as I can see) about %bonuses, not stuff you actually need to construct and maintain stuff, which is what minerals and energy creds are.
Another example; while others squabble for the types of matter needed to build weapons, a small nation may instead choose to secure exclusive import agreements of goods needed to fuel certain consumer/luxury industries whose produce is in demand - this they can then export at a profit. Their status would also make them a less desirable target to attack; even if you conquer their industries you may not be able to produce as much since you don't sit on the same import agreements to secure the raw goods needed to produce stuff (and you may never get those agreements, since your conquest just drove the Klixxar Federation president's favorite holoscreen company into ruin). Also of course such a nation might have laws and tech and a population with a work ethic that allows above-average industrial production, at perhaps the cost of things such as military. And maybe if it dislikes a nation it can sanction it and stop its goods from being exported in that nation's general direction (in return for a CB or something...)
As a note, most planets would probably produce a little of most raw goods (since it's an entire planet afterall), which in itself is no different than every planet just producing, well, minerals - the difference lies in the fact that some planets would produce more or less of certain resources needed for certain things, giving differing goods-related strategic values (beyond just "more or less matter" or "was I lucky enough that a rare resource spawned here?"), and depending on industries they could churn out certain manufactured goods like electronics or ship parts (a planet with copper or gold would of course be better at producing electronics since the raw goods are close by).
As a final note, I don't necessarily think the current way of doing it (as presented so far anyway) is bad, I rather like it, but I wonder why a more elaborate economy like V2, wasn't chosen - and also, what you think of my personal suggestions to it all?
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