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Stellaris Dev Diary #15 - Fallen Empires

Hello and happy new year! I’ll be your substitute Doomdark for today and in this week’s dev diary we’ll take a closer look at Fallen Empires.

The galaxy is vast, old and unknown. New species constantly flare into existence and some are even able to take their first cautious steps towards other stars. Of those that do some are arrogant enough to assume that they are the first and only chosen. They fail to realize that others may have taken those same steps before them, others who have found amazing wonders and unraveled their secrets, others who reached the furthest edges of knowledge only to crumble away. Those others are called Fallen Empires.

These are once-glorious empires that for unknown reasons have stagnated and often fallen to infighting or crippling apathy. That which once covered hundreds of systems have shrunk to a fraction, barely held on to by superior technology and what little remains of a once glorious fleet. Fallen Empires are isolationist and will look at newer species with disinterest or outright contempt. Diplomatic attempts are futile and they will most likely attack any unknown ships entering one of their remaining systems.

stellaris_dev_diary_14_01_20160104_diplomatic_contact.jpg

The response of Fallen Empires vary greatly when approached. It is rarely friendly though.

Design Reasoning

We’ve added Fallen Empires to the game for a couple of reasons. They have the potential to enable some really cool stories and there is a bunch of different directions we can take to ensure players get a different experience from game to game. Players should never feel confident in how a Fallen Empire may react to different events in the galaxy. If left alone they might resurge as a reaction to a galaxy-wide threat or become outraged when their most holy planets are colonized by lesser races.

Gameplay-wise the Fallen Empires can act as a potential source of advanced technology for players willing to invest the military forces required to defeat one of their fleets in battle. In Stellaris, all ships destroyed in combat will leave debris behind and through reverse engineering a player may discover the technologies required to build the weapons and components equipped by those ships. Players can also invade planets belonging to Fallen Empires, allowing them to utilize whatever advanced buildings placed there. This of course means dealing with a new species within the Empire.
While the rewards may be tempting, players may want to consider the risks before attacking a Fallen Empire. Who knows what horrors they have unearthed during the ages, what forbidden secrets their planets hold within, what captives might be unleashed should their wardens be struck down.

stellaris_dev_diary_14_02_20160104_fallen_empire.jpg

Fallen Empires will use a separate series of models for their ships and stations.

Next week the good Goosecreature will be back with a dev diary on the events and mishaps that may befall colonies and their inhabitants. Until then!
 
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The Imperium has destroyed at least three Craftworlds, two during the Great Crusade and another in 852.M41 by the Invaders Chapter.
 
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They did lay siege to one and invade part of it (alaitoc, but it ended in a ceasfire and imperial withdraw), but they have never destroyed one i believe.
Alaitoc? That's the ranger one right? It's not exactly Ulthwe or Biel'tan, then again it could be worse they could have failed sieging down Ilyaden, now that would have been embaressing.

The Imperium has destroyed at least three Craftworlds, two during the Great Crusade and another in 852.M41 by the Invaders Chapter.
Well back before they started the over the top space marine shilling they hadn't, I've been saying it for years GW is going down hill.
 
But... Craftworlds are actually not planets but biiiiiiig Ships.
 
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But... Craftworlds are actually not planets but biiiiiiig Ships.
Well you could consdier them mobile deep space habitats I guess. But that's an intresting thought will stellaris have artificial worlds or deep space habitats. Especially for these fallen empires who are suposed to be the pinnacle of technological (or other) development.
Hmm reminds me of the ancients from stargate, I loathe to bring up Stargate universe but the planet with the obelisks, near god like powers indeed.
 
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Infinite Empire confirmed.
 
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This is absolutely amazing. Thanks Paradox, I can't wait to play this game,

BUT...

...please work on a better fallen empire generator. The empire shown looks like a new civilization that spread evenly in all directions- circular. A fallen empire should look like it was once a giant blob, but it was nibbled at so many times that now it more like a collection of "islands of power". The perfect example is the Byzantine in CK2. They have islands on the other side of the Mediterranean, poorly positioned territories in Sicily, and even an enclave on the opposite side of the Black Sea. They have tremendous power in terrible positions.

For example, a fallen empire may have once spanned three spiral arms, but it lost the strip of territory that connected the three arms to another fallen empire. The second fallen empire lost that territory to rebellions after it colonized beyond the strip, making their territory two blobs on either side of the three spiral arms. This allows the younger races to expand like a gas around the "old rocks".

Furthermore, archaeology should pick up artifacts from the fallen empires in what was their maximum range to help you fight that same fallen empire. In time, you may be able to discover their story.

There should be some chance that their race splintered into multiple sovereign entities. This might be like Vulcans and Romulans who split as a result of civil war, or it could be like the British freely giving up their empire. There could be a situation of a once mighty empire divided into little Italian city-state like system-kingdoms. It could be that the uplifted slave-soldiers over through the intelligent machine builders, and now have no idea how anything works. There are so many incredible possibilities. I know you were showing a very simple example, but I would hate it if you had to redo the system like you did with EU4 random new world system.

Thanks again for all you do.
That makes sense, assuming that's the reason for the empire stagnating. But since there are many different ways that the empire could have become crippled/decadent/extreme isolationists/purely inward focused/guardians of unspeakable horrors/are actually Time Lords/etc, there should be different shapes that the empires take on. Crippled empires would be more likely to be fragmented like you suggest, where as Guardians are more likely to have annexed surrounding systems to provide buffers around whatever it is they're protecting, producing more spherical borders.Decadent and inwardly focused empires might have more unusual borders, more like modern countries/states. They might have once bordered another empire that since perished, but because they're focused inwardly, they haven't really made any attempts to fill the gaps.

I hope their personalities are more likely to fit with the reason for their fall as well. A crippled empire might be more warlordish, as the rulers want to reclaim their lost territory, but due to internal pressures haven't been able to. Taking anything they view as 'theirs' will likely put you at ends with them, but otherwise they might not care about you. Guardians will almost certainly attempt to completely obliterate anything that dares to approach the buffer systems without question or warning, but perhaps more outlying areas they may be a little more tolerant, providing a potential inlet for you to open a somewhat meaningful dialogue with them. Decadent empires might like to trade in things like art, assuming they decide they like yours, but otherwise consider that your race's existence has no value to them. Isolations won't even acknowledge your hails or existence, unless you cross their borders. Then they'll clean away the filth marring their beautiful space lanes and continue on as though nothing happened.
 
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This is absolutely amazing. Thanks Paradox, I can't wait to play this game,

BUT...

...please work on a better fallen empire generator. The empire shown looks like a new civilization that spread evenly in all directions- circular. A fallen empire should look like it was once a giant blob, but it was nibbled at so many times that now it more like a collection of "islands of power". The perfect example is the Byzantine in CK2. They have islands on the other side of the Mediterranean, poorly positioned territories in Sicily, and even an enclave on the opposite side of the Black Sea. They have tremendous power in terrible positions.

For example, a fallen empire may have once spanned three spiral arms, but it lost the strip of territory that connected the three arms to another fallen empire. The second fallen empire lost that territory to rebellions after it colonized beyond the strip, making their territory two blobs on either side of the three spiral arms. This allows the younger races to expand like a gas around the "old rocks".

Furthermore, archaeology should pick up artifacts from the fallen empires in what was their maximum range to help you fight that same fallen empire. In time, you may be able to discover their story.

There should be some chance that their race splintered into multiple sovereign entities. This might be like Vulcans and Romulans who split as a result of civil war, or it could be like the British freely giving up their empire. There could be a situation of a once mighty empire divided into little Italian city-state like system-kingdoms. It could be that the uplifted slave-soldiers over through the intelligent machine builders, and now have no idea how anything works. There are so many incredible possibilities. I know you were showing a very simple example, but I would hate it if you had to redo the system like you did with EU4 random new world system.

Thanks again for all you do.
Right me if I'm wrong but didn't the byzantines lose a lot of that like sicily or the balaeres before they lost anatolia (and thus their big sprawling empire).


That makes sense, assuming that's the reason for the empire stagnating. But since there are many different ways that the empire could have become crippled/decadent/extreme isolationists/purely inward focused/guardians of unspeakable horrors/are actually Time Lords/etc, there should be different shapes that the empires take on. Crippled empires would be more likely to be fragmented like you suggest, where as Guardians are more likely to have annexed surrounding systems to provide buffers around whatever it is they're protecting, producing more spherical borders.Decadent and inwardly focused empires might have more unusual borders, more like modern countries/states. They might have once bordered another empire that since perished, but because they're focused inwardly, they haven't really made any attempts to fill the gaps.

I hope their personalities are more likely to fit with the reason for their fall as well. A crippled empire might be more warlordish, as the rulers want to reclaim their lost territory, but due to internal pressures haven't been able to. Taking anything they view as 'theirs' will likely put you at ends with them, but otherwise they might not care about you. Guardians will almost certainly attempt to completely obliterate anything that dares to approach the buffer systems without question or warning, but perhaps more outlying areas they may be a little more tolerant, providing a potential inlet for you to open a somewhat meaningful dialogue with them. Decadent empires might like to trade in things like art, assuming they decide they like yours, but otherwise consider that your race's existence has no value to them. Isolations won't even acknowledge your hails or existence, unless you cross their borders. Then they'll clean away the filth marring their beautiful space lanes and continue on as though nothing happened.
Well you don't need to be all that ancient to react violently to people doing things you consider dangerous, consider the turian terran first contact war in mass effect (the turian found the humans trying to activate an unexplored mass relays and decided to make sure they didn't, by force).
 
How about something like their reaction?:
A Star Control type scenario might be an interesting subject for a mod either way.
 
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With the diplomacy thing, and how forerunners are "rarely friendly", I'd really like to see a version where the forerunners would say "Ah, *species' name*, we've been expecting you"

On the flipside, I'd love to see them react basically like the God-Emperor's opening speech in this video
 
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It's almost guaranteed that any alien with comparable limbs will have invented and used an axe, mace or sword. There's only so many effective ways to shape metal into killy bits.

And I'd much prefer the aliens using "human" symbols over non-descriptive gibberish.

It could very well be a translitteration, as is "here would the alien symbol equivalent in meaning to the human fasces".
 
With the diplomacy thing, and how forerunners are "rarely friendly", I'd really like to see a version where the forerunners would say "Ah, *species' name*, we've been expecting you"

On the flipside, I'd love to see them react basically like the God-Emperor's opening speech in this video
Only a heretic of such foul lies, blessed be his name, would defile his will to this extent.

You have been warned, utter another word in defiance to the high Council of Terra and your world shall be erased from the history of man.

The Emperor protects, and his greatest gift to humankind is hatred.
 
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Actually I have a few questions that occur to me:

1. If Fallen Empires resurge can/will they join Federations?

2. If fallen Empires resurge will they pursue new scientific advancements?

3. Will any of the Fallen Empires be elves?
wanting to kill some or do you want Eldar or both?
 
This is the space strategy game I have been looking for. Continue your efforts in earnest.

I eagerly await a release date so I can schedule a vacation day.
 
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I'm not sure if anyone has already made this point (I apologise if someone has), I've seen a couple of people saying that it'd be cool to play as a Fallen Empire. While I agree, it would be pretty great, advanced tech, small but advanced fleet, you'd also need to have some major problems and pre-existing crises with your chosen empire, otherwise it wouldn't be a Fallen Empire. If you could resurge right at the start of the game, that'd be pretty game-breaking. Just my two cents!

I love the idea of finding a Fallen Empire, and the only system they have left is a prison world containing an even older more evil race, and all of the remianing resources are bent towards keeping this race (or even perhaps a single entity) contained.
 
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