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Stellaris Dev Diary #15 - Fallen Empires

Hello and happy new year! I’ll be your substitute Doomdark for today and in this week’s dev diary we’ll take a closer look at Fallen Empires.

The galaxy is vast, old and unknown. New species constantly flare into existence and some are even able to take their first cautious steps towards other stars. Of those that do some are arrogant enough to assume that they are the first and only chosen. They fail to realize that others may have taken those same steps before them, others who have found amazing wonders and unraveled their secrets, others who reached the furthest edges of knowledge only to crumble away. Those others are called Fallen Empires.

These are once-glorious empires that for unknown reasons have stagnated and often fallen to infighting or crippling apathy. That which once covered hundreds of systems have shrunk to a fraction, barely held on to by superior technology and what little remains of a once glorious fleet. Fallen Empires are isolationist and will look at newer species with disinterest or outright contempt. Diplomatic attempts are futile and they will most likely attack any unknown ships entering one of their remaining systems.

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The response of Fallen Empires vary greatly when approached. It is rarely friendly though.

Design Reasoning

We’ve added Fallen Empires to the game for a couple of reasons. They have the potential to enable some really cool stories and there is a bunch of different directions we can take to ensure players get a different experience from game to game. Players should never feel confident in how a Fallen Empire may react to different events in the galaxy. If left alone they might resurge as a reaction to a galaxy-wide threat or become outraged when their most holy planets are colonized by lesser races.

Gameplay-wise the Fallen Empires can act as a potential source of advanced technology for players willing to invest the military forces required to defeat one of their fleets in battle. In Stellaris, all ships destroyed in combat will leave debris behind and through reverse engineering a player may discover the technologies required to build the weapons and components equipped by those ships. Players can also invade planets belonging to Fallen Empires, allowing them to utilize whatever advanced buildings placed there. This of course means dealing with a new species within the Empire.
While the rewards may be tempting, players may want to consider the risks before attacking a Fallen Empire. Who knows what horrors they have unearthed during the ages, what forbidden secrets their planets hold within, what captives might be unleashed should their wardens be struck down.

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Fallen Empires will use a separate series of models for their ships and stations.

Next week the good Goosecreature will be back with a dev diary on the events and mishaps that may befall colonies and their inhabitants. Until then!
 
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I'm not a big fan of diplomacy not being very effective, or that most fallen empires see the more upstart races in mostly similar ways.
Yes, there could also be that fallen empire's insectoid race of xenophile militarists that wants to protect the first younger species it can find against every other threat. Or the Mule Union, which is a fallen empire, but would still do everything when it gets food in exchange. And let's not forget the Alliance of Twenty Galaxies, which wants to get a 21st galaxy (which is, unfortunately, our galaxy) so they can change their name (because they love changing their name to confuse their enemies)
 
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It's yet to be seen if this actually feels like anything other than +1 aggression compared to +2 aggression last play through.

You are mentioning only one variable. So in essence, you have simplified the mechanic that we know is more complex. Doing so does emphasizes your point though. I further would say that Paradox has some experience in this area which will show itself in the game.


Think about the different way an empire would play with just a different FTL. Now add in every other variable that we now know of. Its evident the differences will be quite pronounced.
 
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I'm just hoping these rump Empires aren't too common, or at least that their resurgence is fairly rare. But that there are logical reasons to prevent them from becoming heavyweights again.

One idea, they've stripped all the nearby systems of all useful resources. They can't afford to fuel their Star Forge any more. Until a helpful player comes along and starts supplying them in exchange for technological trinkets...

I like the idea that sometimes they'd be protective of their former empire. Like sometimes you discover a barren system with ruins on it. Your archeologists start excavating it, only to have the Vorlon Planet Killer show up to prevent you from learning their secrets.

Another idea is you could encounter one of these precursor Empire's that claims to have uplifted you from animals. They are helpful-ish, but expect you to pay tribute to your Gods of Old!

Storyline wise, fallen Empire's open a lot of doors.
 
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It's possible to produce military power without being a military society. It's sort of like the contrast between the Spartans and the Athenians. Usually it is the political background that sabotages the military first.

I like the idea of vassal species and client species to Elder or older civs with more power. Banks called them "mentor" species.

I think there's a lot of potential for some feudal in space politics and intrigue there. Such as, annexing a new space capable species because you've been watching them and manipulating them to be more like your ethos, breaking them off from their mentor relationship with some other competing space empire.
 
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You are mentioning only one variable. So in essence, you have simplified the mechanic that we know is more complex. Doing so does emphasizes your point though. I further would say that Paradox has some experience in this area which will show itself in the game.


Think about the different way an empire would play with just a different FTL. Now add in every other variable that we now know of. Its evident the differences will be quite pronounced.
At this point, anyone assuring the masses there will be meaningful differences is just recycling propaganda. I'm almost certain Paradox will have relatively strong systems in place compared to what's out in the Space-4X market, but that doesn't mean there will be palpable differences between the randomly creating races. Also, 'random' also includes the possibility of races in one game being very similar, or very frequent overlap across games - I wonder if Paradox has an algorithm to force a minimal degree of difference between starting races?

Don't get me wrong - I am very optimistic about this game. I'm just not certain it will meet everyone's expectations, given early fans often assume much more than is revealed.
 
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I hope that we can create a huge empire, then potentially become that "Fallen Empire" - And similar to CK2, be able to continue the save with a different country (species). That would be very neat.
 
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"There was a time when this whole quadrant belonged to us! What are we now? Twelve worlds and a thousand monuments to past glories. Living off memories and stories, and selling trinkets. My god, man! We've become a tourist attraction. See the great Centauri Republic, open 9 to 5 - Earth time."

I want to turn Fallen Empires into tourist traps.
 
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"There was a time when this whole quadrant belonged to us! What are we now? Twelve worlds and a thousand monuments to past glories. Living off memories and stories, and selling trinkets. My god, man! We've become a tourist attraction. See the great Centauri Republic, open 9 to 5 - Earth time."

I want to turn Fallen Empires into tourist traps.

It actually happened to Sparta during roman times.
 
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Meet Fallen Empires.

"Greeting, Alien"

- Declare War!
Casus belli : That's what Spainish did!

"After endless battles, your people finally have descovered an ancient rocket blueprint"




Ya funny empire don't chya!
 

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No :( I thought it was a space pimpin robot, tuned up by xzibit. Do I need to purge my own heresy? I do not know the protocol here.

Vorlons are like certain kinds of entities from the Warp, with similar powers, downgraded, that the Emperor of Man has. Vorlons also like "purging" people that don't fit in, surprisingly enough.

For those that like space opera, Babylon 5 and Legend of the Galactic Heroes are like their own individual sub cultures and cults. Focus on cults tho.
 
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At this point, anyone assuring the masses there will be meaningful differences is just recycling propaganda. I'm almost certain Paradox will have relatively strong systems in place compared to what's out in the Space-4X market, but that doesn't mean there will be palpable differences between the randomly creating races. Also, 'random' also includes the possibility of races in one game being very similar, or very frequent overlap across games - I wonder if Paradox has an algorithm to force a minimal degree of difference between starting races?

Don't get me wrong - I am very optimistic about this game. I'm just not certain it will meet everyone's expectations, given early fans often assume much more than is revealed.

These statements can not be characterized as "optimistic" but rather pessimistic. Especially when you label what the developers have told us about the game, "propaganda".

This is not a conspiracy to "deceive the masses" here. It is however, game designers explaining their vision and explaining how it will work. To extrapolate that they are designing a mechanic that is weak, and then deceiving the public about it is just as pessimistic as can be...if not something worse. When you mentioned only one variable and insinuate that it will be the only difference we might see in the game, I call that "negative propaganda".
 
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