EU4 - Development Diary - 28th January 2016

[TheDungen]

France converted Brittany because of non accepted culture within borders nothing more. I'm pretty sure that Slovakian will be accepted given Hungarian being split to Transylvanian culture so they won't culture convert them.

Just because transylvianian may be more than 10% of the realm that doesn't mean that slovak is. Remember it's not 10% of hungarian (that's how I want it to be) it's 10% of the realm.

 

[User4035]

The more im reading this, the more i don't like the culture changes.

It sounds like these culture groupings are yet another quick fix on AI programing.
I don't get it. If you want the AI to go after certain areas so badly then just code Region X as top priority.

The more time wasted on haphazard features, the more time that will be wasted in the future to yet again change the same feature.

Some cultures were homogeneous over a large area, while others had more variants in a small area. That's just how it was.

 

[Morguil]

I don't have a very good resolution, but....
Is it me or their is a strait crossing in Gibraltar ?
But it may be a bad resolution on my computer

and a rework of the ocean around madeire

 

[User4035]

How about instead of changing the culture setup for the nth time, make the cultural penalties less important so that it is both historical and easy on the gameplay? Cultural differences didn't mean anything in this time period, religious differences did. Just nerf the cultural penalties all across the board and be done with it.

bingo

Heck, half the cultures people complain about didn't even exist until after the reformation.

 

[DmUa]

Great that Novgorod was recognized as a culture in its own right, which it was, or rather could be if not for Moscovy.

- next stop ruthenian, they should split it at least at right bank and left bank ones.

 

[gabadur]

Turkish in Arabic group. Top kek

 

[TheDungen]

- Isn't it strange to have Sami as a part of the Scandinavian group? It's really a distinct culture with vast differences from say Swedish or Norwegian culture.

What else could they be the fennougric group is gone.

- Not sure what I think of the split-up of Russian culture, maybe it's a good idea since German culture also is split up. I would say that the division of Russians was more political than cultural. Nevertheless you can't name anything Ryazanian culture, for me with background in Eastern Europe that just sounds plain weird. I don't have any better suggestion, but something else should be found. The difficulty of finding a good name is also a clear sign that there never was such a division in history. There's no such thing, or have ever been such a thing as a Novgorodian, Moscovite or Ryazanian culture, it's pure fiction. But maybe that's the case with all the German groups as well, I don't know much about that.

There were cultural diffrences in germany but not exactly large ones. Atleast not in any two bordering cultures.

As for russia no they probably shouldnt be there but the thign is they added provinces and had to do something to keep russia from becomming even larger, truth be told they should just allow provinces to have less than 3 development.

- Hungarian group doesn't feel quite right, same with the Balkan-Bulgarian group.

Then suggest better solutions that work in a gameplay perspective.

How about instead of changing the culture setup for the nth time, make the cultural penalties less important so that it is both historical and easy on the gameplay? Cultural differences didn't mean anything in this time period, religious differences did. Just nerf the cultural penalties all across the board and be done with it.

You are correct in 1444, but in 1821 cultures are very important.

 

[Mr. Capiatlist]

I don't get it. If you want the AI to go after certain areas so badly then just code Region X as top priority.

This is exactly what you're saying. Back in EUIII watching the MEIOU team work on cultures this came up time and time again. Using the accepted culture/same culture group modifiers is a great way to nudge the AI into historical expansion without going as far as to lock down this is where the AI will expand every single time no matter the circumstances. For me it is the most practical way of doing what you've suggested while also keeping the game open to branching histories (i.e. the AI won't do the same thing every time because).

 

[Haydar]

Gameplay reasons, if it's in west slavic then hungary will make it hungarian within less than a century of the start of the game.
Yea greek wouldn't be a good idea because then they couldn't simmulate the how the greeks got independent near the end of the period (with west european support). The persian culture group is a better match. Persian and greek aren't that diffren't in the first place.
.

However there is the gameplay problem. If Turkish is in the Persian group, Otto will expand to East instead of South; which historically they never did.

Turks are mostly converted Romans (Byzantines) at that time with Turko-Persian ruling class. There were even converted Greek commanders a century ago such as Köse Mihal and Evrenos Pasha (not Turkish names). People used to identify themselves mostly by religion, not culture; and even that was not a set in stone identity as some (most?) people in Anatolia just converted to Islam (not Turkish) because it had its own benefits (lower taxes) to be a Muslim in the Ottoman Empire. When Turks came from east, they didn't push the local people to the west. They just settled together. Later on Greek nationalism arose from the Church, because it was the Church that identified Greeks as an accepted minority and preserved their culture within the Empire.

Muslims, on the other hand, were just Muslims. They received their "nation tag" only by late 19th Century. Turkish culture is basicly Anatolian Sunnis that had no other nation tag like Arabs or Kurds; a mixture of Greeks and people that are represented in the Persian group. Greek would have fit perfectly, because if you "can" convert a Greek to Sunni, he won't be any different than say an Aegean region Turkish.

On the other hand, QARA QOYUNLU is actually a Turkish phrase which means "Black Sheeped" and yet they are Persian, so... may be Turkish itself needs to be a cultural group (Anatolian) and have subdivisions like Hungarian.

 

[Thaif]

Split feelings on the map changes...

As a Player; I'm glad they touched up the more...let's say neglected places, but some of those cultural changes are..."interesting".
The new "puffier jacket manpower" thing is tantalizing. Maybe something to do with mercenaries(again) or naval(finally).

As a Modder; Oh no...another complete reworking of a mod incoming in the near future...ah well c'est la vie. It's also fun to see the devs going in the same direction as many map modders, intentionally or not. It shows that interest are meeting and that's a good thing.

 

[TheDungen]

However there is the gameplay problem. If Turkish is in the Persian group, Otto will expand to East instead of South; which historically they never did.

Turks are mostly converted Romans (Byzantines) at that time with Turko-Persian ruling class mostly. There were even converted Greek commanders a century ago such as Köse Mihal and Evrenos Pasha (not Turkish names). People used to identify themselves mostly by religion, not culture; and even that was not a set in stone identity as some (most?) people in Anatolia just converted to Islam (not Turkish) because it had its own benefits (lower taxes) to be a Muslim in the Ottoman Empire. When Turks came from east, they didn't push the local peapole to the west. They just settled together. Later on Greek nationalism arose from the Church, because it was the Church that identified Greeks as an accepted minority and preserved their culture within the Empire.

Muslims, on the other hand, were just Muslims. They received their "nation tag" only by late 19th Century. Turkish culture is basicly Anatolian Sunnis that had no other nation tag like Arabs or Kurds; a mixture of Greeks and people that are represented in the Persian group. Greek would have fit perfectly, because if you "can" convert a Greek to Sunni, he won't be any different than say an Aegean region Turkish.

On the other hand, QARA QOYUNLU is actually a Turkish phrase which means "Black Sheeped" and yet they are Persian, so... may be Turkish itself needs to be a cultural group (Anatoılian) and have subdivisions like Hungarian.

The missions of the ottomans still direct them west and south rather than east.

 

[Dakka]

Combined with the England and France changes and maybe we have got shades of Napoleon going on.

Sounds like perfect time to release Evangelical Majors

I need my French Fusiliers!

 

[TheWolfFate]

What even is the point of culture if it's just a vague descriptor based on geography?

 

[MacDuffin]

I like how you've given fricking Sligo its own ideas, while a major power like Bukhara still has generic Horde ideas. Oh, and I also like how you've returned to the old Turko-Semitic culture group, despite how little sense it makes on any level.

I think that now I can can call "Rampant Eurocentrism" without being accused of ROTW bias. Not impressed, Paradox.

I'm pretty certain remodelling Irish ideas has been asked for some time, and its been an area needing of improvement for some time.
Hordes as a whole where enormously boosted as of late, and for all we know Bukhara might even be getting NI's soon as well. So don't give up hope just yet.

 

[DanubianCossak]

What even is the point of culture if it's just a vague descriptor based on geography?

a.) nationalist rebels
b.) events
c.) various core related things

 

[Tufto]

Down with Bukhara, freedom for Ireland.

If you have a suggestion for Bukhara feel free to send it to me.

I drew some Bukharan ideas up ages ago, when I was annoyed at them still not having any with a previous patch. I'll see if I can find them. If not, I'll try to reconstruct from what I remember.

 

[funguide]

Hopefully Japan and Africa get some love too, the Himalayas could use some province overhaul.
Johan also mentioned relations tied to culture, could it be that we now get an opinion modifier for same culture group.
The number beside those men only changed by 25 from sligo an OPM to Hungary which is a huge country and then there is also that percent thing. It could be militia or mercenary sailors for hire. We'll know next week.

 

[joelgarcia4677]

We see the new map and see how it is in Ireland Crusader Kings IIy how complete is the game

 

[Sousuke123]

Just because transylvianian may be more than 10% of the realm that doesn't mean that slovak is. Remember it's not 10% of hungarian (that's how I want it to be) it's 10% of the realm.

I did quick run and culture converted provinces to see what charts shows. If there is no development tweaking Hungarian will be 37.9 Transylvanian 16.5 and Slovakian 25.1 Croatian 20.5 so there is no need to worry for culture removal due to non accepted culture.

 

[Thrac]

Any chance to see a 5 province Moldavia/Wallachia?
Ireland has around 100.000 square km same as Moldavia/Wallachia and it has now 9 provinces and the other 2 remain at 3 provinces..... same old missrepresentation
Hopeing that maybe in EU V ther will be a proper representation of all european provinces on a scale, something like 20.000 square km = 1 province.
Nice adition the carpathian grup tho.