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EU4 Development Diary - 11th February 2016

Hello and Welcome to another development diary for Europa Universalis IV. This time we take a look at a concept that neither we nor you have not been entirely happy with in any previous Paradox game: Espionage.

In the next major patch, we have completely reworked how espionage works. No longer is every spy action done by just sending a diplomat that will perform the action for as long as it is there, but now there is a concept of spy networks.

You now send a diplomat on a mission to a country to build up a spy network. The network can reach up to 100% power, and that power can be used to execute spy actions, such as sow discontent, fabricate claims, etc.

Spy Offense has been renamed to Spy Network Construction, and determines how quickly you build spy networks in another nation.

Spy Defence has been renamed to “Foreign Spy Detection”, and now determine the chance of detecting hostile network buildups and disrupting it. A disrupted network will lose some of its power, and also make it impossible for you continue improving it for a time period.

Performing an action is instant, and as long as you have the power, success is automatic. However, networks that are not actively built will slowly decay.

You can also target other nations networks with counterespionage, to actively reduce their capabilities of their network.

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There are three passive benefits to having a strong spy network in another nation. First of all, if you have the Cossacks expansion and picked the Espionage Ideas, you have access to Study Technology, which is no longer a source of power, but instead a possibility to reduce technology costs by up 30% from having networks in nations ahead of you (the size of the discount depends on how far ahead they are in each tech). Secondly, the new expansion grants up to 20% higher siege ability against nations where you have a spy network. Finally, the new expansion gives you up to 10% less AE in that country.

Of course, all of those scale with the power of the spy network.


Espionage now contains the following actions.

Fabricate Claim: Gives you a claim on an eligible province for a low cost.
Justify Trade Conflict: Gives you a trade conflict CB if conditions are applicable for a low cost.
Support Rebels: Selected rebel faction gets +10% chance to progress towards revolt each month for 5 years for a very high cost. It will also cost a fair amount of cash to support ythe troops.


The following requires the Espionage Ideagroup.

Sow Discontent, applies +3 unrest and reduces legitimacy, republican tradition, devotion or unity for 5 years for a high cost
Infiltrate Administration: Lifts Fog of War over the target country for 5 years for a medium cost.
Sabotage Reputation: -3 diplomatic reputation for 5 years for a medium cost.
Agitate for Liberty: Selected subject has +25 liberty desire that lasts 5 years for a high cost.


There is also four new actions enabled by the new expansion, two of those we’ll tell you about here, two others are for future development diaries.

Sabotage Recruitment: Gives 20% less manpower and Sailor recovery speed for 5 years for a medium cost.
Slander Merchant: Reduces Global Trade Power by 33% for 5 years for a high cost.

Of course actions that require previously expansions will still require those expansions.

Next week we’ll be back with a look at Africa.
 
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Fabricating claims is low cost.
Besides, we still don't even know if those without the expansion will also get the new system.
Yes we do:
In the next major patch, we have completely reworked how espionage works.
(emphasis mine).
 
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... It tells you when the enemy army is completely broken. It tells you how much of there force-limit they're currently using. It tells you they don't have another army you don't know about. It tells you when the enemy has depleted manpower. How could you determine any of these with only info not from the ledger?

Click on each of their provinces and add up the development.
 
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Click on each of their provinces and add up the development.
Adding up their autonomy-adjusted development tells you their force limit. It doesn't tell you how big their actual army or fleet is - the AI (like competent humans) treats force limits as advisory - and it doesn't tell you how much manpower they have left.
 
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The espionage actions sound way too powerful if the effect stacks; especially the one with +3 unrest and lower legitimacy.

All of those actions except the last two already exist ingame. They are unlocked by espionage ideas.
 
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Hello and Welcome to another development diary for Europa Universalis IV. This time we take a look at a concept that neither we nor you have not been entirely happy with in any previous Paradox game: Espionage.

Double negatives don't work in English.
 
All good. But what is meant by "cost"? Ducats? DIP? AE?....
Read the whole DD post.
You now send a diplomat on a mission to a country to build up a spy network. The network can reach up to 100% power, and that power can be used to execute spy actions, such as sow discontent, fabricate claims, etc.
 
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The changes sound reasonably okay, but I feel like, in order for them to truly feel satisfying and enjoyable, diplomats and espionage would need to be decoupled entirely. Otherwise you're constantly having to play a game of diplomat shuffling to both improve relations and build spy networks, and that sounds like it could get real annoying real fast, especially in the HRE where AE reduction is crucial.

I very much agree with this statement. Espionage actions should require a spy, and gaining more spies should be something that espionage would do (and possibly something like innovative, defensive, and influence idea groups could also add 1 more to). There are more than enough diplomatic actions to keep diplomats busy, and if you separate them into spies you can also take away someone's ability to use a spy anywhere for X time if caught. Or, like colonies and missionaries, have it cost money to fund their spying activities. This makes it more interesting and less about a frustrating lack of diplomats.

Alternatively, double the diplomats. But then someone can be improving relations and just forget about espionage. By decoupling espionage from diplomats you make espionage a very intriguing idea group.

Some people might think that just because it's been that way in the past we should continue with things like supporting rebels or fabricating claims with diplomats rather than spies. why? why do we have diplomats, missionaries, colonists, and merchants and the only one that is remotely interesting is diplomats? the others are fire and forget, nothing to manage, and with the missionary is often sitting unused. with diplomats, it's actively looking into what they are doing constantly. I understand that there are only so many diplomats to limit the players actions but a lack of spies would similarly limit a player. In fact if there was only one at a time (without proper ideas) you could only focus your efforts on expanding really on one state at at time, at least in the very beginning. A spy would be a very valuable and interesting addition to the game without hamstringing a player's diplomacy
 
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Some people might think that just because it's been that way in the past we should continue with things like supporting rebels or fabricating claims with diplomats rather than spies. why? why do we have diplomats, missionaries, colonists, and merchants and the only one that is remotely interesting is diplomats? the others are fire and forget, nothing to manage, and with the missionary is often sitting unused. with diplomats, it's actively looking into what they are doing constantly. I understand that there are only so many diplomats to limit the players actions but a lack of spies would similarly limit a player. In fact if there was only one at a time (without proper ideas) you could only focus your efforts on expanding really on one state at at time, at least in the very beginning. A spy would be a very valuable and interesting addition to the game without hamstringing a player's diplomacy



Regarding missionaries, perhaps we could have an option to send them to foreign provinces and try to convert the population there as a way to push for religious unrest. Although there is a chance that it could aggressive expansion. We could send missionaries to the rest of the world as well, maybe Christianize parts of India, Japan, China, etc. as a way for them to be more receptive of Christian Europe and to allow trade (maybe Christian merchants can't go in as they are a foreign religion so we got to convert them so they can allow us to conduct commerce).
 
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Navy and Espionage were my biggest wish-list items, so I'm pretty stoked about where this next patch/DLC is going. :D

I would like to second the opinions of people who are concerned about small, distant nations in Africa and Asia (which seem to always take Espionage!) dropping huge, empire-wide penalties on the Great Powers of the era. It's already absurd that Animist/Pagan nations could drive wedges between you and the Pope to disgrace Cardinals, just as it's already absurd that African/Asian OPMs could somehow successfully Agitate for Liberty in an empire's colonies in the Americas.

Perhaps a solution is to dramatically reduce the ability to spy based on the distance between capitals. Another option is to simply prevent most Espionage actions from having any effect based on having "Distant Overseas" status. Others above have mentioned that there could be a type of "scaling" and that a small country shouldn't be able to have much impact on a larger country (though I disagree that this should be the major factor - I think small countries adjacent to large countries *should* be able to meddle in the affairs of the larger countries; asymmetrical power is something I have long wanted to see in neighbors.)

Something else that would be useful and make spying a risk/reward would be to generate short-lived CBs against nations caught spying (kind of like "Diplomatic Insults") - maybe just for the more serious offenses, but maybe for everything. Small countries that get caught poking the bear should be held accountable.

All in all I'm pretty excited to see where an Espionage revamp is going. Thanks again for focusing on this. ;)
 
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