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I can help you make province history files and landed titles if you need those.
 
I could help with lore too, if you need it.

Also, by the way, you have few things wrong on the map. Twilight Highlands are absent, even though they were a thing before Cataclysm lorewise and Gilneas is smaller than it should be. Southwestern area (Duskhaven) was flooded during Cataclysm, so it still there during events of Warcraft. Southern Silverpine should be Gilnean, Dalaran controlled only its own area and it was not until end of Third War, when they took over Ambermill (Pyrewood remained Gilnean).

Besides that, this looks wonderful.
 
There isn't much I can do to help sorry, but I hope you are able to pull it off. I tried to play Tides of Darkness but couldn't revert back to the needed patch sadly. So I have high hopes for you and wish you all the best mate! :)
 
I could help with lore too, if you need it.

Also, by the way, you have few things wrong on the map. Twilight Highlands are absent, even though they were a thing before Cataclysm lorewise and Gilneas is smaller than it should be. Southwestern area (Duskhaven) was flooded during Cataclysm, so it still there during events of Warcraft. Southern Silverpine should be Gilnean, Dalaran controlled only its own area and it was not until end of Third War, when they took over Ambermill (Pyrewood remained Gilnean).

Besides that, this looks wonderful.

Cataclysm makes the map a bit of a grey area since CK2 historically does not play nice with map changes once the map has been loaded the first time. I figured I'd at least throw in Gilneas as it would end up as to give them a bit more land to play with (otherwise the big blue blob "AKA Big L" will just roll over everyone). Ownership wise though that's mostly due to not having a set date for when the snapshots were taken, easily tweakable. As far as twilight highlands though, they exist on the map just not to the same crazy size that they existed in Cata.

There isn't much I can do to help sorry, but I hope you are able to pull it off. I tried to play Tides of Darkness but couldn't revert back to the needed patch sadly. So I have high hopes for you and wish you all the best mate! :)

Thanks! We're making progress, for me its a matter of learning stuff I'm not used to so that's what is bogging me down between this and work.

That said though still looking for event, trait and history scriptors!
 
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If you need any event message or event idea (Because i know nothing about scripting) just tell me, perhaps i can help. I have the lucky of having studied the warcraft lore deeply. And, for the , i preffer the game beginning in the first war or before, and then the bookmark of the first, second and third war, and perhaps to lich king. Obviusly, with the important events between that times, like the scape from durnholde, the fundation of durotar, etc.
 
It's probably just a preliminary draft, but I've noticed a few problems with your current de jure layout.
1) Silverpine Forest: Silverpine Forest was never Dalaran land, except for the one town of Ambermill that was annexed after the Second War. Silverlaine Keep (Shadowfang Keep), Pyrewood Village and Ambermill were Gilnean territories before the war, and afterwards the evidence suggests that they (bar Ambermill, which was annexed by Dalaran) were annexed by the Kingdom of Lordaeron or remained mostly independent until Arugal seized control with his worgen. To correct this, move Dalaran's current Silverpine territories to be de jure Gilnean.
2) Dalaran in general: Dalaran was a city-state, not a nation like it is portrayed here. Most of the land it controls in this is land that should go to a different kingdom: Hillsbrad to Lordaeron, Silverpine to Gilneas, Alterac's coast to Alterac, and Fenris Keep to Lordaeron. Split the province that surrounds Dalaran into two provinces, one for Alterac's coast and one for Dalaran, and give Alterac's coast to Alterac. (Fenris Keep is arguable, because Dalaran did control islands in Warcraft II. If you wanted to keep it as Dalaran clay, it wouldn't be that much of a change from lore. Alterac's coast is a nessecity for it--in lore, part of the conflict over what to do with Alterac was a result of it having the "second largest fleet", and the fear of what Lordaeron would become if it was both a maritime and continental superpower.)
3) Revantusk: Revantusk Tribe is not the dominant troll tribe in that region, at any point in time. Moving it all to Vilebranch would make some sense, or splitting into a Vilebranch with the inland territory and a Revantusk with the coastal Hinterlands would make sense.
4) Tol Barad: Tol Barad seems to be missing, unless it's those two tiny islands in Baradin Bay. If it is, then they're held by the wrong culture; Tol Barad was a vassal state of the Kingdom of Stromgarde, up until the Second War where they were sacked and reoccupied by Dalaran and Kul Tiras.
5) Mountains: Make more use of impassable mountains. It may not seem like a big deal, but a reason for most of the borders in the EK seem to be the mountain ranges. Alterac is insolated from Lordaeron by its mountains; Stromgarde and the Hinterlands are kept from wiping eachother out by mountains, and the Hinterlands trolls kept from Tyr's Hand's backdoor; the Dwarves are kept from having perfect supply lines by the cascades of mountain ranges throughout their land.

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As a whole, it does look very nice so far! Good work, and good luck on finishing the project.
 
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It's probably just a preliminary draft, but I've noticed a few problems with your current de jure layout.
1) Silverpine Forest: Silverpine Forest was never Dalaran land, except for the one town of Ambermill that was annexed after the Second War. Silverlaine Keep (Shadowfang Keep), Pyrewood Village and Ambermill were Gilnean territories before the war, and afterwards the evidence suggests that they (bar Ambermill, which was annexed by Dalaran) were annexed by the Kingdom of Lordaeron or remained mostly independent until Arugal seized control with his worgen. To correct this, move Dalaran's current Silverpine territories to be de jure Gilnean.
2) Dalaran in general: Dalaran was a city-state, not a nation like it is portrayed here. Most of the land it controls in this is land that should go to a different kingdom: Hillsbrad to Lordaeron, Silverpine to Gilneas, Alterac's coast to Alterac, and Fenris Keep to Lordaeron. Split the province that surrounds Dalaran into two provinces, one for Alterac's coast and one for Dalaran, and give Alterac's coast to Alterac. (Fenris Keep is arguable, because Dalaran did control islands in Warcraft II. If you wanted to keep it as Dalaran clay, it wouldn't be that much of a change from lore. Alterac's coast is a nessecity for it--in lore, part of the conflict over what to do with Alterac was a result of it having the "second largest fleet", and the fear of what Lordaeron would become if it was both a maritime and continental superpower.)
3) Revantusk: Revantusk Tribe is not the dominant troll tribe in that region, at any point in time. Moving it all to Vilebranch would make some sense, or splitting into a Vilebranch with the inland territory and a Revantusk with the coastal Hinterlands would make sense.
4) Tol Barad: Tol Barad seems to be missing, unless it's those two tiny islands in Baradin Bay. If it is, then they're held by the wrong culture; Tol Barad was a vassal state of the Kingdom of Stromgarde, up until the Second War where they were sacked and reoccupied by Dalaran and Kul Tiras.
5) Mountains: Make more use of impassable mountains. It may not seem like a big deal, but a reason for most of the borders in the EK seem to be the mountain ranges. Alterac is insolated from Lordaeron by its mountains; Stromgarde and the Hinterlands are kept from wiping eachother out by mountains, and the Hinterlands trolls kept from Tyr's Hand's backdoor; the Dwarves are kept from having perfect supply lines by the cascades of mountain ranges throughout their land.

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As a whole, it does look very nice so far! Good work, and good luck on finishing the project.
This is very valid feedback thank you! And yes it was a preliminary draft, I started laying out who owned what by using WoW as a loose starting point but then when I got to the kingdoms that dont exist in that period things got a little wonky. Luckily though Ck2s history system lets us augment that very easily so that it can (and will) be held by different people in different eras. As far as Dalaran goes, yeah I definitely feel that. In fact most of the "kingdoms" would be considered city-states in-universe but that doesnt translate really well into the Ck2 gamespace. Sure they dont have a king, but I'm willing to give them a king level title simply because of the impact they had in the area and the lands they control that would eventually span the continent (Netherguard Keep for example). Tol Barad is another good point and one that will change once we get a front to back history pass done, I believe I missed one of the islands that are out there but I dont recall which, from Tol Barad, Zul'Dare and Crestfall.

The only bit of this that I would respectfully disagree with would be on the subject of mountains. I very much do plan to have the map have a good share of impassable mountain ranges (Dun Moruogh is going to be hell to siege down) I think having them everywhere creates too many bottlenecks for the ck2 game to be enjoyable and leave options open for players. The WoW map is a good example of this, where each zone is boxed in by impassable mountains, simply because the intended design was something along the lines of keeping players in the area they should be in. What were working on is something that still has those terrain features, but they're slightly less pronounced. Otherwise you start having a box effect where every 5-6 provinces are walled off to the world save for one or two exits. Don't worry though, historical places such as Khaz Modan, Alterac, Redridge and a few others will most definitely have impassable mountain ranges.

Again, thank you so much for your thoughts this kind of feedback is super important to help make a mod that not only does the warcraft universe justice but makes a mod that is fun to play as well!
 
While we're on the subject of Hilsbrad don't forget that there is the Dwarven fortress of Dun Garok.
Also, if I remember correctly, Durnholde Keep was actually built in order to watch over the internment camps so if it isn't its own county then only add the barony after that point in time.
Honestly, I'm pretty sure the "series of boxes" design of WoW zones was for technical reasons. Limiting how zones can be entered makes things like pre-loading assets much easier.
If you look at Warcraft 3 loading screens you'll notice that this boxiness has always been a thing. Add to that that all Warcraft game battles always happened in contained rectangular maps and that those maps simply are canon in the Warcraft lore even if said lore is only that way because it is subservient to gameplay. And in any case, even if there are mountains everywhere just for rendering reasons then you still have the fact that many areas have no connecting paths whatsoever even though they are adjacent and could have such.

Anyway, I too am open to sift through any lore sources you want me to. I've been a fan of the lore since elementary school and used to spend hours on the wiki and such. But I'm pretty sure that if you throw any question into the forum here it will get answered by one of us in no time.

Lastly, regarding Silverpine, you could say that it was either given independence from Gilneas or ceded to Lordearon upon the construction of the Greymane Wall.
 
While we're on the subject of Hilsbrad don't forget that there is the Dwarven fortress of Dun Garok.
Also, if I remember correctly, Durnholde Keep was actually built in order to watch over the internment camps so if it isn't its own county then only add the barony after that point in time.

If you look at Warcraft 3 loading screens you'll notice that this boxiness has always been a thing. Add to that that all Warcraft game battles always happened in contained rectangular maps and that those maps simply are canon in the Warcraft lore even if said lore is only that way because it is subservient to gameplay. And in any case, even if there are mountains everywhere just for rendering reasons then you still have the fact that many areas have no connecting paths whatsoever even though they are adjacent and could have such.

Anyway, I too am open to sift through any lore sources you want me to. I've been a fan of the lore since elementary school and used to spend hours on the wiki and such. But I'm pretty sure that if you throw any question into the forum here it will get answered by one of us in no time.

Lastly, regarding Silverpine, you could say that it was either given independence from Gilneas or ceded to Lordearon upon the construction of the Greymane Wall.

And the map for this mod will deviate from lore to improve gameplay.
 
Southern Silverpine shouldn´t IMO be de jure part of Gilneas after Second War. Genn Graymane formally gave it up to build his wall, so those areas should either become de jure Lordaeron or have no de jure kingdom at all, only slowly drifting into Lordaeron (that could also be interesting for gameplay as ruler of Pyrewood and Ambermill, because you could become duke withouth threat of de jure claims from existing kingdoms).

There could also be something that prevents people from attacking Dalaran (otherwise, they would always be attacked by other nations), only allowing it at huge cost for attacking side.
 
Alterac's coast is a nessecity for it--in lore, part of the conflict over what to do with Alterac was a result of it having the "second largest fleet", and the fear of what Lordaeron would become if it was both a maritime and continental superpower.)

Which coast do you mean by that? Surely not the one towards the lake, right? Also, I can't find the source for them having a large fleet. Remember where you read that?

And the map for this mod will deviate from lore to improve gameplay.

Why would lots of mountain ranges be all that bad for gameplay? Anyway, even if you don't include all of them I think the major implied ones (Alterac, Dwarven regions, those that isolate trolls from humans, Deadwind Pass) should still be included.

Southern Silverpine shouldn´t IMO be de jure part of Gilneas after Second War.

Lord Crowley and his rebels would disagree with you. Anyway, what happens if you actually release land voluntarily as a King in CK2? Do you immediately get a de jure claim on it? Because what Genn Greymane essentially did was take land away from his duke(?) level vassals and then release it to fend for itself, thus giving said vassals a claim (which I assume they couldn't push due to high crown authority levels) and a reason to rebel.
 
Which coast do you mean by that? Surely not the one towards the lake, right? Also, I can't find the source for them having a large fleet. Remember where you read that?

Yeah, Alterac was landlocked, I don't know where this fleet business is coming from. Alterac resides in a deep and secluded valley in the mountains between Quel'Thelas and Lordearon proper and guards a pass between those two lands. At least, according to Tides of Darkness it does anyway.

Why would lots of mountain ranges be all that bad for gameplay? Anyway, even if you don't include all of them I think the major implied ones (Alterac, Dwarven regions, those that isolate trolls from humans, Deadwind Pass) should still be included.

Of course, the major mountain regions should be included. But having impassable mountains everywhere (like in WoW) would drastically reduce the possible avenues for expansion. Maintaining a few of them (other than critical ones, like Alterac, Khaz Modan, the Hinterlands, etc.) to create strategic choke points would be good in my opinion.

But I'm not the maps guy, so take all of this with a grain of salt.
 
Well, I don´t think that option to create Graymane Wall could even be possible in CK2 engine. I think it should only be matter of bookmarks: Gilneas is bigger de facto and de jure in Second War than in Third War.

Problem with de jure land is always the same: Even though conquest makes no sense lorewise and characterwise, AI will do it anyways. After Third War, Pyrewood became independent and Ambermill got protection from Dalaran, which has small number of troops (it could have special mage unit, but AI doesn´t care about unit types). So, making southern Silverpine de jure independent from Gilneas is the only way to prevent Genn Graymane (same guy who abandoned those provinces) from reconquering them immediately after game starts.
 
Well, I don´t think that option to create Graymane Wall could even be possible in CK2 engine. I think it should only be matter of bookmarks: Gilneas is bigger de facto and de jure in Second War than in Third War.

Problem with de jure land is always the same: Even though conquest makes no sense lorewise and characterwise, AI will do it anyways. After Third War, Pyrewood became independent and Ambermill got protection from Dalaran, which has small number of troops (it could have special mage unit, but AI doesn´t care about unit types). So, making southern Silverpine de jure independent from Gilneas is the only way to prevent Genn Graymane (same guy who abandoned those provinces) from reconquering them immediately after game starts.

There are actually ways, if one meddle with the cassus belli.
 
Alterac resides in a deep and secluded valley in the mountains between Quel'Thelas and Lordearon proper and guards a pass between those two lands.

Wait, what? Are you confusing Quel'Thalas with Dalaran or has Alterac wandered that far south over the course of pre-WoW retcons? Do you have any Warcraft 2 continental maps available?

Edit: Well, damn. According to this collection the maps for WC2 (and some of the latter sketches too) had Alterac located far enough to the south-east of Hilsbrad to have its own southern shore.

Second edit: Seems like that first link was mostly unofficial work-in-progress sketches. Here's the official map from the WC2: Tides of Darkness handbook:

latest


Other than curiosity and context for what to take away from old lore sources and their claims about boarders and navies and such this might be interesting regarding the relation of Tol'Barad, Zul'Dare, Crestfall and Kul'Tiras, seeing how the latter three aren't on the modern WoW map.
 
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Wait, what? Are you confusing Quel'Thalas with Dalaran or has Alterac wandered that far south over the course of pre-WoW retcons? Do you have any Warcraft 2 continental maps available?

Edit: Well, damn. According to this collection the maps for WC2 (and some of the latter sketches too) had Alterac located far enough to the south-east of Hilsbrad to have its own southern shore.
Yep, you'll find the War1 and War2 manuals have a plethora of maps and lore that vary from interesting to downright strange. Unfortunately having a dozen different versions of the continents obviously means that there isnt a single "correct" version of the map. Ultimately we will go with the version that is both recognizable for fans of the universe and functional for players of Ck2. In the end we'll err on the side of gameplay because a game that isnt fun is a game that isnt played, and I'm pretty sure we want you to play our game :)
 
Well, yes. Taking a version of the Vanilla WoW map and adapting it to CK2 needs makes the most sense of course. I just posted the maps to put some perspective to the claim that Alterac had the second-greatest navy and any other future claims that may come up and are confusing given more current maps. As I said, the only thing really useful to the game is seeing the various major islands that Blizzard never got around to introducing to WoW (Kul'Tiras apparently drifted out into the sea or something during Cataclysm).