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Stellaris Dev Diary #26 - Migration, Slavery & Purges

Hi folks!

It has been a very busy week for yours truly, with a load of press demos and, of course, the grand Paradox press conference in San Francisco. Meanwhile, the rest of the team has been hard at work finishing up the revised start-up screens, but that’s not what I’m going to talk about today… Instead, through the confused haze of my jet lag, I thought I’d say a few words about how to manage your population in Stellaris! As you might recall from the dev diary on Policies and Edicts, your initial choice of Empire ethos will heavily affect what you can and cannot do and what your initial population will tend to frown upon. Three of the more interesting Policies concern Migration, Slavery and Purges.

stellaris_dev_diary_26_01_20160321_policies.jpg


Let’s begin with Migration. There are two ways in which Pops can move between planets; spontaneous migration or resettlement. If you are playing a Fanatic Individualist empire, you must allow at least your founding species Pops to move freely as they like (there is an option to disallow alien Pops from migrating - not popular with Xenophiles.) Pops who are allowed to migrate will tend to move to planets they like better than the one they currently live on. This is not just a matter of the Planet Class, but also things like whether the planet has Slaves (which Decadent Pops like), if there are alien Pops on the planet (which Xenophobes dislike and Xenophiles like), and whether the planet lies within a Sector or the core worlds (dissidents and aliens tend to move to Sectors to live with like-minded individuals.) If another Empire is granting you migration access, your Pops will also consider migrating to their planets.

Now, unless you are playing an Individualist Empire, you can also enact a Policy to allow the forcible resettlement of Pops. This will allow you to simply move Pops between planets; at a hefty cost, of course. There is one more way to control migration; fanatic Xenophobes can enact planetary Edicts to strongly discourage xeno immigration. In the same way, fanatic Xenophiles can strongly encourage it...

stellaris_dev_diary_26_02_20160321_resettlement.jpg


So that’s basically how migration works. Next, we have Slavery. Like the migration Policies, you have three options; allow it for all Pops, xenos only, or not at all. Fanatic Individualists cannot play with Slavery unless the founding species has the Decadent trait, and only Xenophobes can limit Slavery to aliens. Why use slaves? Well, reprehensible as it is, enslaved Pops are harder workers (but poorer scientists.) Of course, slaves can - and will - join Slave Factions, although Collectivist slaves are more accepting of their lot, for the Greater Good.

Finally, let’s talk Purges, which is simply a way of getting rid of troublesome Pops… permanently. Naturally, this is something that both your own population and other Empires tend to react to rather emphatically.

That’ll have to do for now. Next week, we’re aiming for a more cheerful dev diary about sound and music!
 
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Both are implemented. Doomdark's post number 3 on page 2 about first, somewhere else about second.

Ahh, thank you.

I must say I also dislike the term collectivist as is describes this ethos and its gameplay effects. Authoritarian or Hierarchial works better for me. Individualist works fine for me, though.

I wonder if it a translation issue.

Anyway, pops can change their ethos. I wonder what the gameplay effects of enslaving "collectivist" pops - do they tend to remain collectivist, or do they move away from pro slavery sentiment.
 
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*sigh*
Apparently I did not explain it clearly enough...
You explained clearly enough that your definition requires a third party creator to define the parameters of the collective.
 
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It is, but still unrelated to welcoming other species with open arms.
Their mentality of Greater Good suggests you SHOULD strive for a greater good, which implies you can do otherwise. And Tau did so before Etherials came.

I consider it more fun to image the most broad range of societies possible in Stellaris, so fanatic collectivists would be society with individuals not having any value to themselves, drones without much personality. Tyranids would be an example of fanatic collectivists.

Well, maybe there will be hive added later as a distinct ethos/government/trait, then I'd consider your point right. Now I would rather see fanatic collectivists as a hive.
Except we've been told no hive minds in the initial release. And even if there were ethos are held beliefs not inherent traits.

I would like to point out that a species being Fanatically Collectivist in Stellaris means that they are literally incapable of organizing into any type of government other than ones ruled by a single person with absolute power. According to the information on the wiki, Fanatic Collectivism locks all the government types besides the absolutist ones. I can think of only two ways to interpret this - either a really strong hierarchical reflex where everyone is practically falling over each other to "follow the leader", or a Zerg-style hivemind where a single entity directs a subservient whole consisting of parts that mostly aren't, by themselves, sentient.

Either way, out of all the societies you can build in the game, it is one is one of the most alien.
Again no hive minds in initial release to fanatical collectivism are a people who are capable of believing other things (as apparent by ethos drift) who have chosen the path of collectivism. Also inherent qualities are handled by traits not ethoses.
 
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Not exactly 'sentient', but what about bees & ants ?
They are not in the game, so it's not relevant at this point. But even if they were, a group a hive-minded slave-workers still wouldn't accept the rule of anyone but their queen.

Y-you are aware that humans do that, right?
Name one group of humans that define themselves so inferior to someone else that they are rightfully enslaved. Remember that we are not talking about a group of slaves tolerating their own enslavement because the alternative seems worse. And if you talk about people accepting the guidance of a strong and firm rulership that's still better captured by autocracy than collectivism.
 
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Wait, so even being ultra xenophobe is not enough to lock down aliens on planets they belong to? And they can migrate freely in moderately xenophobic empires?
If there starts to be too many Xeno scum you can just treat them as free slaves, or Purge them for fun!
 
Name one group of humans that define themselves so inferior to someone else that they are rightfully enslaved. Remember that we are not talking about a group of slaves tolerating their own enslavement because the alternative seems worse. And if you talk about people accepting the guidance of a strong and firm rulership that's still better captured by autocracy than collectivism.
I think you are misunderstanding. It is called Slavery Tolerance, not Slavery Happiness. They tolerate being enslaved, something along the lines of heavy labor as a punishment for crimes instead of imprisonment. There have been groups on earth (generally speaking ancient history) who accepted their lot in life as slaves. Jews come to mind in ancient Egypt, it wasn't until Moses appeared that they decided to rebel, for about 400 years they were slaves.
Remember that we are not talking about a group of slaves tolerating their own enslavement because the alternative seems worse
Says who? All the DD says is that pops with a Collective ethos will be more passive when enslaved, less likely to revolt. No where does it say they enjoy being enslaved, nor that they accept it as the natural order, just that they are not as likely to rebel because they still see themselves as contributing to the greater good more by serving than by revolting. They could very well be just accepting their slavery because the alternative is worse.
 
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Wait, so even being ultra xenophobe is not enough to lock down aliens on planets they belong to? And they can migrate freely in moderately xenophobic empires?
No, you can enact migration policies.
There are two ways in which Pops can move between planets; spontaneous migration or resettlement. If you are playing a Fanatic Individualist empire, you must allow at least your founding species Pops to move freely as they like (there is an option to disallow alien Pops from migrating - not popular with Xenophiles.) Pops who are allowed to migrate will tend to move to planets they like better than the one they currently live on. This is not just a matter of the Planet Class, but also things like whether the planet has Slaves (which Decadent Pops like), if there are alien Pops on the planet (which Xenophobes dislike and Xenophiles like), and whether the planet lies within a Sector or the core worlds (dissidents and aliens tend to move to Sectors to live with like-minded individuals.) If another Empire is granting you migration access, your Pops will also consider migrating to their planets.
The salient point:
there is an option to disallow alien Pops from migrating - not popular with Xenophiles

So yes you can lock aliens on your planets. Maybe read the DD before complaining about how it doesn't have the features it actually does. :p
 
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I can enslave/purge pops on the planets I directly control (given the right policies), but can I enslave/purge pops managed by my sector governors? Will sector governors ever enslave/purge on their own?
We know we can give governors some broad directives, like "don't raze existing buildings to build different ones", so we will probably have directives like "enslave dissident pops" or "purge all xenos".
 
dissidents and aliens tend to move to Sectors to live with like-minded individuals

I really like this. I hope it will make for very dynamic and organic gameplay.
Imagine having a vast, varied empire, where every sector has its own political and racial personality. And it's not static either, as new pops grow and arrive to your nation, they'll naturally arrange themselves across your territory. It'll make it feel like a living, breathing society.
 
Migration an interesting concept... would there be interspecies mating to create a new species? I would love to see those xenophilic Blorg intermix with other races.

I think it very very unlikely, it's a complete biological impossibility. But even if they wanted to overlook that like Star Trek and such, given the random nature and vast number of potential species it might be... an interesting design challenge.
 
I think you are misunderstanding. It is called Slavery Tolerance, not Slavery Happiness. They tolerate being enslaved, something along the lines of heavy labor as a punishment for crimes instead of imprisonment. There have been groups on earth (generally speaking ancient history) who accepted their lot in life as slaves. Jews come to mind in ancient Egypt, it wasn't until Moses appeared that they decided to rebel, for about 400 years they were slaves.

There are a few issues with this, looking at it from both a historical and a biblical point of few.

Taking what we know with a very large grain of salt.
  1. (Pedantic) They weren't Jews until after the exodus.
  2. The slaves were not always treated as poorly as when Moses came into the picture. Moses was born during a time of infanticide, for the majority of the time this was not the case.
  3. Skilled slaves had a very large degree of freedom, and even had slaves of their own.
  4. Apparently various letters from kingdoms in the area were sent complaining about steady streams of escaping slaves. (I think I read that in Who Wrote The Bible, but it's been a while so I might be remembering incorrectly).
Based on this, a few thoughts come to mind.

  1. Can we set the level of "Harshness" of the slavery? Some forms of slavery was lighter than others, indentured servitude ostensibly served to teach a skill, biblical era Jews had certain limitations on what could be demanded of a slave, and Romans had slaves act as police and other skilled trades.
  2. Can attrition be modeled to deal with escaping slaves? I would love to have my relations lowered with neighboring empires as my escaping slaves maraud through their territories.
  3. Can slave species be modified to meet the goals of the overlord species? A dog makes a very fine tool; it has been bred over thousands of years to depend on humans for their survival. I'm envisioning an empire ruled by lazy slugs who have uplifted various species to do everything - research, exploration, combat, construction.
  4. Will Moses like "leaders" kick off empire-wide rebellions? (absolutely certain the answer is yes, but the question is worth asking.)
 
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I wonder if you can use my vicky 2 USA strategy here: completely focusing on attracting immigrants and making immigration rather then birth the primary way of population grown. You would need to be diplomatic to convince those other races to sign immigration treaties. Rather then conquering them would I simply take their population :)
 
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(watch from 0:30)
That moment an advance (fallen) empire takes enslaves your pops from New Albion and takes them away
 
  1. Can slave species be modified to meet the goals of the overlord species? A dog makes a very fine tool; it has been bred over thousands of years to depend on humans for their survival. I'm envisioning an empire ruled by lazy slugs who have uplifted various species to do everything - research, exploration, combat, construction.

Ah. Going for the Hutt gameplay
 
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