Two major problems with Ironman policy

[zorkman]

like i said, itj ust wouldn't work with mods man, if you guys really want achivements just play iron man rofl.

I get waht you're saying, you want achivements too, but it's unfair to those that earn them properly, it just wouldn't fly cause its such a small people who want these "bronze man" achivements, plus it'd clutter the steam interface and confuse new comers, and also make iron man less relevent, cause just as you said you lke to see yourself gain achievements, so do others so dnt steal that from thm.

This confirms what I have always felt about achievements with EU4 & many of the people who use them. Many are just elitists who want to show how great they are with their medals/achievements, & have nothing at all about making a system easy to use for everyone or not to cheat. Most people just want to use things like achievements to test themselves with mini challenges, & in nearly all games are for the average player who play on basic levels, but Paradox for some reason wants the levels to play them higher like using the ridiculous Lucky Nations which destabilise your games. Explains why so few people get achievements with their games compared to similar type games, as they wont use Ironman.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

This confirms what I have always felt about achievements with EU4 & many of the people who use them. Many are just elitists who want to show how great they are with their medals/achievements, & have nothing at all about making a system easy to use for everyone or not to cheat. Most people just want to use things like achievements to test themselves with mini challenges, & in nearly all games are for the average player who play on basic levels, but Paradox for some reason wants the levels to play them higher like using the ridiculous Lucky Nations which destabilise your games. Explains why so few people get achievements with their games compared to similar type games, as they wont use Ironman.

The worst is that what I'm proposing wouldn't even devalue Ironman achievements. In fact, to the true IronmenTM, someone with a bunch of bronze achievements would only out themselves more as a filthy plebeian newbie, who couldn't hack playing real Ironman but still wanted their unearned cheevos. We would be laid bare in the public for all to see and deride us, unable to hide the shame of playing a game for fun. The infinite gulf of skill and general worth as a human being that exists between Ironmen and pathetic bronze noobs would only be increased.

 

[Cymsdale]

The worst is that what I'm proposing wouldn't even devalue Ironman achievements. In fact, to the true IronmenTM, someone with a bunch of bronze achievements would only out themselves more as a filthy plebeian newbie, who couldn't hack playing real Ironman but still wanted their unearned cheevos. We would be laid bare in the public for all to see and deride us, unable to hide the shame of playing a game for fun. The infinite gulf of skill and general worth as a human being that exists between Ironmen and pathetic bronze noobs would only be increased.

People have argued that their ironman achievements would be devalued by the mere existence of bronzeman versions.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

People have argued that their ironman achievements would be devalued by the mere existence of bronzeman versions.

I know, which is patently ridiculous.

 

[Jak9090]

I also like the idea of silver and gold achievements. Silver could be the learn the game achievements like Stellaris' "Brave New World" achievement for building a colony. Gold would be the game's actual challenges such as Stellaris' "Unbidden" achievement for defeating a late game crisis

again, how are u going to get silver achivements if you're playing game of thrones mod?, or what if someone decieds to make a mod crafted to just unlock every single silver achivement when u press play? it literally wouldn't work with modding, u can't define a line.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

again, how are u going to get silver achivements if you're playing game of thrones mod?,

There are plenty of achievements that don't check for anything specific to the real-world start, and I don't see why we should bar people from getting those in the Game of Thrones mod.

or what if someone decieds to make a mod crafted to just unlock every single silver achivement when u press play? it literally wouldn't work with modding, u can't define a line.

You know, right now I can go download a tool that will unlock literally every single achievement for CKII. If someone wants to get achievements despite completely missing the purpose of achievements, that's their own problem, and it shouldn't matter to anyone else but them.

Tons of games allow achievements without modding - I wouldn't have any achievements in Skyrim or Total War games otherwise. And I'd reckon that more people would be pissed than pleased if CA required achievements in new Total War games to be achieved without mods.

 

[Jak9090]

There are plenty of achievements that don't check for anything specific to the real-world start, and I don't see why we should bar people from getting those in the Game of Thrones mod.



You know, right now I can go download a tool that will unlock literally every single achievement for CKII. If someone wants to get achievements despite completely missing the purpose of achievements, that's their own problem, and it shouldn't matter to anyone else but them.

Tons of games allow achievements without modding - I wouldn't have any achievements in Skyrim or Total War games otherwise. And I'd reckon that more people would be pissed than pleased if CA required achievements in new Total War games to be achieved without mods.

if youre wanting silver achivements you're describing yourself in that second paragraph, "someone wants to get achivements despite comepletely missing the purpose of achivements"

 

[zorkman]

if youre wanting silver achivements you're describing yourself in that second paragraph, "someone wants to get achivements despite comepletely missing the purpose of achivements"

I think you are missing the purpose of achievements. Achievements were originally made so people had goals to work for to make a game more interesting & are for the average gamer, with more complicated ones for better players. Most games do this well. Unfortunately, a lot of people seem to think it is some sort of elitist badge to show off with. Like, look at me how clever I am. I couldn't care what other people have, I just play to enjoy myself & work towards goals. Obviously some of us see it differently.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

if youre wanting silver achivements you're describing yourself in that second paragraph, "someone wants to get achivements despite comepletely missing the purpose of achivements"

So, Creative Assembly and pre-FO4 Bethesda and plenty of other developers just don't understand the purpose of achievements when they make them available in modded games?

 

[alpreb]

People, it's just achievements. They have no impact on the game nor your performance when playing the game.

Relax.

 

[Jak9090]

if u guys want achivement, bloody well go and achieve.

 

[wthomas]

Hi, I'm John Q gamer. I don't really care too much about achievements, but with Ironman, it gave me a "dare" to play more dangerously. I'm not going to mod my game so I can still save and make achievements, because I don't have that kind of time. The first time I played EUIV on iron man was awesome! For the first time in a Paradox game, my decisions really did matter, because I wouldn't be able to reverse them through a saved game. Having achievements be Ironman only, threw down the gauntlet.

 

[cloudwasher]

When I got the achievement in CK2 for restoring the old borders of the Roman Empire or the sunset invasion achievement in EU4, it felt pretty damn good. The achievement means less if it's watered down. If 65% of players don't bother with ironman any ways then I really don't see the need to change it. Let those of us who want to challenge ourselves have the current system, the 65% of more casual players can play non-ironman, and the tiny sliver of people who play ironman and want to jump around countries or convert it into vicky can download the player-made mods to accommodate them.

 

[ramius3443]

When I got the achievement in CK2 for restoring the old borders of the Roman Empire or the sunset invasion achievement in EU4, it felt pretty damn good. The achievement means less if it's watered down.

Yes, god forbid that your glorious acomplishments are ruined by the fact that other people somewhere may or may not have opened the console while playing a single player game, and got the same icon as you did! Why even bother playing EU4 anymore if I have to -share- my fancy digital pictograph nobody ever looks at with the commoners???

I dont feel very strongly either way about making achievements ironman or not, but implying that you would feel insufficiently rewarded if the pictograph you got for conquering France as the Aztecs was slightly more widely obtainable is.... nothing short of asinine.

 

[mudcrabmerchant]

When I got the achievement in CK2 for restoring the old borders of the Roman Empire or the sunset invasion achievement in EU4, it felt pretty damn good. The achievement means less if it's watered down. If 65% of players don't bother with ironman any ways then I really don't see the need to change it. Let those of us who want to challenge ourselves have the current system, the 65% of more casual players can play non-ironman, and the tiny sliver of people who play ironman and want to jump around countries or convert it into vicky can download the player-made mods to accommodate them.

What do you not understand about two tiers? Ironman achievements won't be watered down, it would be immediately clear to anyone looking at your digital trophy rack that you achieved it under Ironman rules (or used a Steam unlocker tool).

And 65% of players not even bothering with it is the greatest condemnation of the current system, not an argument for it. Achievements are restricted to a minority that likes playing with Ironman.

 

[Mike1984]

When I got the achievement in CK2 for restoring the old borders of the Roman Empire or the sunset invasion achievement in EU4, it felt pretty damn good. The achievement means less if it's watered down. If 65% of players don't bother with ironman any ways then I really don't see the need to change it. Let those of us who want to challenge ourselves have the current system, the 65% of more casual players can play non-ironman, and the tiny sliver of people who play ironman and want to jump around countries or convert it into vicky can download the player-made mods to accommodate them.

Yes, and I'd also like to be able to get those achievements. However, I also like not being forced to spend half my time (especially when running at speed 5) looking at the "autosaving" screen, or to have my game ruined because of some dumb bug (or annoying misclick, or whatever) which I can't work around or fix because of the Ironman restrictions. I also like being able to play with mods, sometimes including mods that change certain fundamental features (e.g. nerfing corruption in the previous version so that it was actually possible to play a non-Western nation or one which expands into areas not of its own religion without humanism). And, before you say "but, corruption is an intrinsic part of the game", recall that it wasn't part of the game until a few months ago, and that people who got achievements which corruption made more difficult did not have them retroactively taken away when corruption was introduced as a mechanic.

 

[zorkman]

When I got the achievement in CK2 for restoring the old borders of the Roman Empire or the sunset invasion achievement in EU4, it felt pretty damn good. The achievement means less if it's watered down. If 65% of players don't bother with ironman any ways then I really don't see the need to change it. Let those of us who want to challenge ourselves have the current system, the 65% of more casual players can play non-ironman, and the tiny sliver of people who play ironman and want to jump around countries or convert it into vicky can download the player-made mods to accommodate them.

I don't know where you get this figure of 65% not playing ironman from. If you look at the national achievements, even the basic one of having a Royal Marriage has less than 20% achieving it, with the rest a lot lower. I would be surprised if 10% used ironman. Unfortunately, reading these boards you would think the vast majority did.

You again confirm what I have commented on & others say, in achievements are for the elite rather than the general player as they should be, like they are in other similar games. Fancy having your honours & badges demeaned by having to share them with the plebs.

 

[nukemind2012]

The only thing I want is custom racial pictures, and Steam Workshop civs, to get achievements. If they don't have any advantages (no extra points, no extra anything but a racial pic) I want to earn achievements!

I want to colonize as my anime characters, I want to conquer as Krogan, and warmonger as the Klingon. I want to create an economic power house as Ferengi, and an isolationist research hub as Geth. And oh so many others.

 

[Mike1984]

The only thing I want is custom racial pictures, and Steam Workshop civs, to get achievements. If they don't have any advantages (no extra points, no extra anything but a racial pic) I want to earn achievements!

I want to colonize as my anime characters, I want to conquer as Krogan, and warmonger as the Klingon. I want to create an economic power house as Ferengi, and an isolationist research hub as Geth. And oh so many others.

If you're talking about Stellaris, then this will probably be implemented eventually. The difficulty is that the same system is used for both Ironman and checking Multiplayer compatibility, and those customisations are not currently Multiplayer compatible.

 

[nukemind2012]

If you're talking about Stellaris, then this will probably be implemented eventually. The difficulty is that the same system is used for both Ironman and checking Multiplayer compatibility, and those customisations are not currently Multiplayer compatible.

Ah thank you. Yes I am this either showed up in the Stellaris forum or my eyes need work.