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I think it is in the mod's best interest to keep things simple at first.
Bear in mind that CKII mechanics were designed just with intra-species reproduction anyway and what most people are asking for is hard to mod correctly, as it would require mechanics beyond the original scope of the game i.e. for racial groups as a supracategory of cultural groups and rules for inheritance of those.
So, yes, a "race trait" is a must if the culture groups aren't also race exclusive. The latter 1:1 map is problematic, since you would need a separate culture group for half breeds and to generally disable heritage education. The separation between race and culture group is probably better.
Given that rules do exist for genetic inheritance, namely the DNA attribute of characters, some mods resort to using the graphical_cultures as a way of representing this (i.e. have a set of portrait packs for each race and then mix and match what cultures are allowed to use which portraits). This may serve as an additional guide as to which half-races to choose, since they would have to use portrait elements that are "compatible" with one another.
This again, was originally meant to reflect the physical, genetically inherited aspect of ethnicity, and a child is assigned a specific portrait pack given its parentage on birth. Note that this could be superseded with "set_graphical_culture" if one would want to have other inheritance rules, but this is needlessly complicated.

Therefore, either: (A) have the child be of a given race based on its graphical culture (e.g. an orc-troll marriage could only result in children with either the "orc" or "troll" trait, but not both, if we have, say, orcgfx and trollgfx as graphical cultures) or (B) have the half-breed offspring be stillborn.

Exceptions would only need to be made for those cases that matter (i.e. the ones you could not do without). I count three, the ones which do figure more prominently in canon: half-human/half-elves, half-human/half-orcs and half-orc/half-ogres (I am assuming no draenei on the Azerothian continent for half-orc/half-draenei). Adding conditionals for those would not be such a burden and a couple more "half-race" traits would make sense. The question remains as to how well are portrait packs able to represent this -- one possible example:
(1) orcs and half-breed resembling orcs more than anything else would be in orcgfx, humans and half-breed resembling humans more than anything else would be in humangfx etc.;
(2) another example would be to give each half-breed its own graphical culture, say orcogregfx.

Example (2) meshes in nicely with the philosophy of (A) but suffers from (A)'s flaw of strongly correlating race with culture (since initial random portraits will use the character's culture to determine which portrait pack to use) and may needlessly duplicate some things.
Example (1) is less redundant, but may be more difficult to construct from a graphical standpoint.
Given an assignment code for the half-races such as: if character has graphical_culture = humangfx then, if both parents have humangfx he is "human", else, for each possible different graphical_culture that either of the parents may have, assign it the half-race trait and/or graphical_culture based on said different culture;
one can easily see that this last step needs to do some additional logic when graphical_cultures are also half-breed exclusive as in example (2) and will lead to different behaviours. In the case of (2) half-breed+pure breed may result in either half-breed or pure breed and half-breed+half-breed will never give pure breed while in (1) half-breed+pure breed will show the same bias toward the pure breed that the half-breed has and therefore half-breed+half-breed will give pure breed if they show the same bias

I'd say to go with (A) for pure races, otherwise (B) with exceptions handled by (1), but you may need to see what works for you.

Also, have the opinion penalties between different race combinations (i.e. the set in "opposites") higher than the usual different culture group penalties (indeed, racism is a thing in Warcraft lore). This will make AI inter-species marriage less likely overall. This is because of the point made in the following paragraph.

Last and not least, let us not forget about political dynamics. Marriages are after all a way of securing political alliances. I don't know the map all that well, but it might merit looking into what other possible exceptions could be made for racial alliances that might emerge naturally in-game between the powers on the map (the rival of my rival could be a friend, so why not obtain a royal marriage with them? Child proceeds to perpetuate a dynasty of half-breeds that unites the two kingdoms...) Note the emphasis, since not every tribe/count/baron needs to be considered for this. They won't end up mattering that much anyway.


What I wanted to say the most is that there is no need to spend time on all the possible combinations available when there should be just a few that ultimately matter in an average playthrough.

tl;dr Use race traits and keep things simple (discard half-breeds entirely or use just a few). Playtest/mindtest to see if it all makes sense/adds to the gameplay.
 
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Cool. Let me know if I can help out with anything on the "*.txt" side of things. If you want, I could work up some randomly generated names for each race. I remember I did something of the sorts sometime ago and have the files somewhere on my PC.
 
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What's the story behind Ogres (?) being demonstrated as count-level republics?
Are ya trying to say that the great republic of Ogri'la aint canon any more?
I think it is in the mod's best interest to keep things simple at first.
Bear in mind that CKII mechanics were designed just with intra-species reproduction anyway and what most people are asking for is hard to mod correctly, as it would require mechanics beyond the original scope of the game i.e. for racial groups as a supracategory of cultural groups and rules for inheritance of those.
So, yes, a "race trait" is a must if the culture groups aren't also race exclusive. The latter 1:1 map is problematic, since you would need a separate culture group for half breeds and to generally disable heritage education. The separation between race and culture group is probably better.
Given that rules do exist for genetic inheritance, namely the DNA attribute of characters, some mods resort to using the graphical_cultures as a way of representing this (i.e. have a set of portrait packs for each race and then mix and match what cultures are allowed to use which portraits). This may serve as an additional guide as to which half-races to choose, since they would have to use portrait elements that are "compatible" with one another.
This again, was originally meant to reflect the physical, genetically inherited aspect of ethnicity, and a child is assigned a specific portrait pack given its parentage on birth. Note that this could be superseded with "set_graphical_culture" if one would want to have other inheritance rules, but this is needlessly complicated.

Therefore, either: (A) have the child be of a given race based on its graphical culture (e.g. an orc-troll marriage could only result in children with either the "orc" or "troll" trait, but not both, if we have, say, orcgfx and trollgfx as graphical cultures) or (B) have the half-breed offspring be stillborn.

Exceptions would only need to be made for those cases that matter (i.e. the ones you could not do without). I count three, the ones which do figure more prominently in canon: half-human/half-elves, half-human/half-orcs and half-orc/half-ogres (I am assuming no draenei on the Azerothian continent for half-orc/half-draenei). Adding conditionals for those would not be such a burden and a couple more "half-race" traits would make sense. The question remains as to how well are portrait packs able to represent this -- one possible example:
(1) orcs and half-breed resembling orcs more than anything else would be in orcgfx, humans and half-breed resembling humans more than anything else would be in humangfx etc.;
(2) another example would be to give each half-breed its own graphical culture, say orcogregfx.

Example (2) meshes in nicely with the philosophy of (A) but suffers from (A)'s flaw of strongly correlating race with culture (since initial random portraits will use the character's culture to determine which portrait pack to use) and may needlessly duplicate some things.
Example (1) is less redundant, but may be more difficult to construct from a graphical standpoint.
Given an assignment code for the half-races such as: if character has graphical_culture = humangfx then, if both parents have humangfx he is "human", else, for each possible different graphical_culture that either of the parents may have, assign it the half-race trait and/or graphical_culture based on said different culture;
one can easily see that this last step needs to do some additional logic when graphical_cultures are also half-breed exclusive as in example (2) and will lead to different behaviours. In the case of (2) half-breed+pure breed may result in either half-breed or pure breed and half-breed+half-breed will never give pure breed while in (1) half-breed+pure breed will show the same bias toward the pure breed that the half-breed has and therefore half-breed+half-breed will give pure breed if they show the same bias

I'd say to go with (A) for pure races, otherwise (B) with exceptions handled by (1), but you may need to see what works for you.

Also, have the opinion penalties between different race combinations (i.e. the set in "opposites") higher than the usual different culture group penalties (indeed, racism is a thing in Warcraft lore). This will make AI inter-species marriage less likely overall. This is because of the point made in the following paragraph.

Last and not least, let us not forget about political dynamics. Marriages are after all a way of securing political alliances. I don't know the map all that well, but it might merit looking into what other possible exceptions could be made for racial alliances that might emerge naturally in-game between the powers on the map (the rival of my rival could be a friend, so why not obtain a royal marriage with them? Child proceeds to perpetuate a dynasty of half-breeds that unites the two kingdoms...) Note the emphasis, since not every tribe/count/baron needs to be considered for this. They won't end up mattering that much anyway.


What I wanted to say the most is that there is no need to spend time on all the possible combinations available when there should be just a few that ultimately matter in an average playthrough.

tl;dr Use race traits and keep things simple (discard half-breeds entirely or use just a few). Playtest/mindtest to see if it all makes sense/adds to the gameplay.
I did mention that before but Mok'Nathal half orc-half ogre graphic is done and half orc-half draenei could use a base of blueish green orc but with tentacles instead of beard and a rippled high forehead with kinder eyes so its easily done.

Half elves can use the elf graphics as humans and elves are alike except for the lack of beard and pointed ears, would perhaps edit their ears to be slightly less pointed and add some small beard options and darken the hair color options from platinum blonde to dark blonde.

All easily done.

Or well, more easily done than making the arrakoa graphics...
 
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Why have you chosen to go with the cartoony animated looks for portrait graphics and not a more CK2 mature vibe?
Serious question.
Mostly because its the way blizzard made it, their orcs are a clear green and their mobs look like kids cartoons.
And to change that would make it less warcraft.

Oh and its a shitload easier.
 
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I have some questions...

The undead race, will they be separated in two different groups? Since there is the scourge and the forsaken (mindless and the ones that actually that can control themselves)

Also I don't know if any of you played the GoT mod for Ck2 (you probably have)
Will there be any historic events just like in the GoT mod where decide between different choices and each will have a different outcome.

Example in the GoT mod there is an event if you play as Daenarys where you can choose between staying in Essos or leaving for the Seven Kingdoms.
Will there be any event similar?
 
I have some questions...

The undead race, will they be separated in two different groups? Since there is the scourge and the forsaken (mindless and the ones that actually that can control themselves)

Also I don't know if any of you played the GoT mod for Ck2 (you probably have)
Will there be any historic events just like in the GoT mod where decide between different choices and each will have a different outcome.

Example in the GoT mod there is an event if you play as Daenarys where you can choose between staying in Essos or leaving for the Seven Kingdoms.
Will there be any event similar?
The undead are divided and characters like undead sylvanas will be forsaken and since there is racial dislike the forsaken will keep trying to rebell from their scourge liege.

Historical events are first, starting from the arathor-troll wars, three hammers, first and second war since all that is in the eastern kingdoms and dont involve anything else (except draenor in part at the end of the second war).
After that comes adding kalimidor, northrend and draenor for warcraft 3 events and completing the world.

After that comes adding aditional content (islands in the sea, e.g timetraveled draenor, emerald dream, void etc, transforming lordy into the plaguelands at the right year and event, triggering in that if e.g Sylvanas dies during wc2 somehow then someone else becomes the bandshee queen, if thrall dies before freeing the horde some other orc will free them and take them across the sea (albeit weaker) etc etc)

Making canon changing decisions would be after all the canon content is in the mod, e.g if the horde wins the second war and take over all the human lands then perhaps the gladiator Arthas will free his fellow humans from labour camps with the help of old timer Uther who then dies from a axe to the back but hands over his trademark hammer and armor to Arthas before dying and having Arthas lead his shattered people across the great sea to a new life as foretold by some great prophet blah blah whoever wins each bookmark the next bookmark will still contain reign of chaos, frozen throne, scourge coup and divide, trouble in draenor after wc2 and so on and so on.

There will always be a scourge, legion invasions at the end of set events and so on and so on.
 
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The undead are divided and characters like undead sylvanas will be forsaken and since there is racial dislike the forsaken will keep trying to rebell from their scourge liege.

Historical events are first, starting from the arathor-troll wars, three hammers, first and second war since all that is in the eastern kingdoms and dont involve anything else (except draenor in part at the end of the second war).
After that comes adding kalimidor, northrend and draenor for warcraft 3 events and completing the world.

After that comes adding aditional content (islands in the sea, e.g timetraveled draenor, emerald dream, void etc, transforming lordy into the plaguelands at the right year and event, triggering in that if e.g Sylvanas dies during wc2 somehow then someone else becomes the bandshee queen, if thrall dies before freeing the horde some other orc will free them and take them across the sea (albeit weaker) etc etc)

Making canon changing decisions would be after all the canon content is in the mod, e.g if the horde wins the second war and take over all the human lands then perhaps the gladiator Arthas will free his fellow humans from labour camps with the help of old timer Uther who then dies from a axe to the back but hands over his trademark hammer and armor to Arthas before dying and having Arthas lead his shattered people across the great sea to a new life as foretold by some great prophet blah blah whoever wins each bookmark the next bookmark will still contain reign of chaos, frozen throne, scourge coup and divide, trouble in draenor after wc2 and so on and so on.

There will always be a scourge, legion invasions at the end of set events and so on and so on.

Ah sounds great! Also how far does the timeline go? Will the events in WoW be a part of the mod at first or later (2.0 maybe)?
 
Ah sounds great! Also how far does the timeline go? Will the events in WoW be a part of the mod at first or later (2.0 maybe)?
Well the years are in and the bookmarks but it would be kinda weird to have the horde leave the eastern kingdoms in wc3 and then have sunset invasions to bring them back for burning crusade, wrath is all in NR, cata doesnt really change anything except some faction leaders, mists is all pandaria and so on.
 
Ah sounds great! Also how far does the timeline go? Will the events in WoW be a part of the mod at first or later (2.0 maybe)?
Latest start date will be vanilla WoW, in the future I'd like to also have a WotLK start date. I'm still unsure if a Cata start date would be worth it, as Teelvade said, it only changes a small handful of things and doesnt add much ck2-worthy content. That's all far future plans though mind you, definitely all beyond the 1.0.0 release plans.
 
Burning crusade in ck2 form would be that after Illidan has united a kingdom title of outland he declares war on whoever owns the outside of the portal.

Wrath is pretty much just the finish of the war of scourge vs humans that started in wc3.

Cata is just black dragons vs other dragons.

Mists is just pandaria being discovered by everyone else (Garrosh woulda gone ebil anyway, thats more of a dark shamanism/old gods religious rebellion within the horde), thats more of a script of Garrosh changing religion, hating all that aint his religion and making all his vassals/a shitload of orcish characters change religion with him and make them all form a faction to depose the current warchief.

Warlords is horde invasion all over again. Sunset invasion trigger to place orc armies at dark portal (which is now a 3 way connection point between timetraveled draenor and outland) and blackrock while "Iron Horde" that owns most of time travel draenor declares war on the owner of blackrock and stormwind.
Issue with WoD is that timetraveled draenor has to be blocked by fog until the WoD bookmark so they cant see anyone else and no one can see them.

Same with Pandaria before Mists, Kali before wc3, NR before Arthas goes there, Outland before warcraft 1 and so on and so on.
 
Issue with WoD is that timetraveled draenor has to be blocked by fog until the WoD bookmark so they cant see anyone else and no one can see them.

Same with Pandaria before Mists, Kali before wc3, NR before Arthas goes there, Outland before warcraft 1 and so on and so on.

I don't know how practical it would be (especially with the multiple versions of characters like Garrosh, Durotan, Velen etc.), but if there was a way to let the other regions still "exist" before they enter the main canon , but just be unable to interact with anyone outside their region that would probably be a lot better. That way anyone who wanted could play in those regions and create their own kingdoms and scenarios etc. instead of only being able to affect them after a certain date. For example, someone might want to conquer all of Outland, Shattrath and all, so they can lead a united Outland under Illidan against the legion, or play as the Draeni to fight the Iron Horde before it takes over Draenor.

As I said though, don't know how to execute that in practice, outside of maybe nobody on Pandaria having cb on anything outside Pandaria and nobody in main Azeroth having cb on anything Pandarian and so on.
 
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I don't know how practical it would be (especially with the multiple versions of characters like Garrosh, Durotan, Velen etc.), but if there was a way to let the other regions still "exist" before they enter the main canon ,
Ck2 doesnt actually give two shits if people are named the same as long as the charID is different.
As long as the char ID is different CK2 will know that they are different people.
Not to mention that due to time travel canon Velen and WoD Velen arent the same age and you can even take it so far as to rename the dynasties slightly or just re-define them and CK2 will know that they are different even though they look the same.
but just be unable to interact with anyone outside their region that would probably be a lot better. That way anyone who wanted could play in those regions and create their own kingdoms and scenarios etc. instead of only being able to affect them after a certain date. For example, someone might want to conquer all of Outland, Shattrath and all, so they can lead a united Outland under Illidan against the legion, or play as the Draeni to fight the Iron Horde before it takes over Draenor.
That is the bases of it all.
Warlords is horde invasion all over again. Sunset invasion trigger to place orc armies at dark portal (which is now a 3 way connection point between timetraveled draenor and outland) and blackrock while "Iron Horde" that owns most of time travel draenor declares war on the owner of blackrock and stormwind.
Issue with WoD is that timetraveled draenor has to be blocked by fog until the WoD bookmark so they cant see anyone else and no one can see them.

Same with Pandaria before Mists, Kali before wc3, NR before Arthas goes there, Outland before warcraft 1 and so on and so on.
I did mention that here, that the Fog has to lift over areas as they enter the main plot.
Having the trolls of Zul'Drak declare war on Lordaeron because of Lordaeron helping Quel against the Amani (who would probably ally the Drakkari as they share religion and race) during warcraft 2 would break the canon timeline quite a lot.
So they cant know the other one exists.
Sure that you can start as the Drakkari during wc2 and unite Northrend as a Drakkarian empire but you should still not be able to attack Lordaeron until Lordy sends expeditions slightly before Arthas departure there in warcraft 3.

Same with the Centaur uniting Kalimidor and doing a sunset invasion of the Eastern Kingdoms during warcraft 3 just because they own a lot of land divided by the clans.

The horde not helping the Tauren would of course lead to the Centaur owning most of Kalimidor anyway so if you (as the horde) decide to do that then of course you can.

But stopping non canon things from happening is still prio 1.

And the easiest way to stop factions that should not have a role in bookmarks where they werent introduced is to have them fog eachother and thus be unable to see that the other one exists.
As I said though, don't know how to execute that in practice, outside of maybe nobody on Pandaria having cb on anything outside Pandaria and nobody in main Azeroth having cb on anything Pandarian and so on.
Well they dont normally.

People usually only have "unite this title" CB and "Show superiority" CB.

Both only affect the things near them.
 
ANOTHER QUESTION! YES!

Which of the big lore characters will you be able to play as?
Right now I have sooo many characters that I would like to play as, characters such as:

- Sylvanas (like starting from being a elf commander to the point of Arthas turn her into a banshee and her breaking free to form the forsaken)
- Thrall (starting in the camps as a slave, then later going as the leader of the new horde)
- Arthas (starting as young little boy in the training of Muradin, then later Uther to train as a paladin and becoming more and more focused on defeating the scourge then becoming the Lich King. Actually it would be crazy cool to go around and using the Val'kyr to resurrect fallen heroes to serve you)
- Illidan (this one is a little harder to decide since he disappears after BC, I assume that would be the ''end'' of that storyline, but maybe from the second legion invasion which led to Illidan becoming a demon hunter and consuming Gul'dan skull)
- Muradin Bronzebeard (This one could actually be pretty cool, being to tutor to Arthas then losing your memory of who you are, then later found again)

Now these are just examples and they could be some crazy storylines to add into the mod, maybe even add multiple choice events to like change what happend, like:

- Have Arthas not purge Stratholme
- Sylvanas not breaking away from Arthas
- Illidan not consume the skull of Gul'dan
- Thrall not leaving the camp but staying as a fighter for his captor
 
Why is there such a big priority on stopping non-canon things from happening? Ck2 is a game entirely based upon "well, what if this happened instead?" and stopping things from having wacky outcomes kind of ruins the fun of it all. The Zul'drak trolls taking over Northrend and then Railroading Lordaeron sounds exactly like something that would happen base game. The point of CK2 is that once you start a game, all bets are off on what could happen. Stopping that just kind of feels like you aren't making a CK2 mod and limits the gameplay which is just really bad design.

AGOT, Geheimnisnacht, Elder Kings and even the Avatar mod are all based of fantasy worlds with established lore of what happens in the time period they are set in (AGOT - can change litterally everything, including where Aegon invades meaning the Seven Kingdoms are sometimes never made, Geheimnisnacht is set 500 years before the current events of warhammer but you can make it happen however you like, Elder Kings is in the same boat as Geheimnisnacht and the Avatar mod has actively been working to give the player more freedom.) but let the player mess about and do what they want because CK2 encourages freedom in. Giving the players less to do and encouraging stagnation in gameplay - Especially in CK2- is just really bad design.

If i want to create the Second Panda Empire and invade the eastern kingdoms during the troll wars and invade the eastern kingdoms, i should be able to (I'm aware that panda's will be a super late addition, these are just examples.)

If i want to become the Gnome King of the Eastern Kingdoms and kill every other races, i should be able to do it.

Having some arbitrary mechanic that says "No, you can't do this because it never happened." just completely sucks the life out of CK2 and is not what this game is about.

Also Outland and Draenor should never exist on the map unless there is a way to make them work really well.

All my own opinions ect, ect.
 
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ANOTHER QUESTION! YES!

Which of the big lore characters will you be able to play as?
Right now I have sooo many characters that I would like to play as, characters such as:

- Sylvanas (like starting from being a elf commander to the point of Arthas turn her into a banshee and her breaking free to form the forsaken)
- Thrall (starting in the camps as a slave, then later going as the leader of the new horde)
- Arthas (starting as young little boy in the training of Muradin, then later Uther to train as a paladin and becoming more and more focused on defeating the scourge then becoming the Lich King. Actually it would be crazy cool to go around and using the Val'kyr to resurrect fallen heroes to serve you)
- Illidan (this one is a little harder to decide since he disappears after BC, I assume that would be the ''end'' of that storyline, but maybe from the second legion invasion which led to Illidan becoming a demon hunter and consuming Gul'dan skull)
- Muradin Bronzebeard (This one could actually be pretty cool, being to tutor to Arthas then losing your memory of who you are, then later found again)

Now these are just examples and they could be some crazy storylines to add into the mod, maybe even add multiple choice events to like change what happend, like:
You mainly play as rulers tho.
You wouldnt de facto play as Arthas when Lordaeron, that would be Terenas and 10/10 Terenas players would drop their son while he is young.
If playing Arthas that would be during the wc3 bookmark and start him as e.g the lord of Strahnbrad and Andorhall and have plotted (after testing to make the timings right) orc and undead rebellions so you barely have time to run across the map and put out fires while each uprising has some relevant plot choice or just popup attached (e.g chase the orcs into alterac at start (spawns another orc army that attacks you) or go to Andorhall directly (will reduce Uthers opinion of you as you abandoned the villagers but you can prepare a bit more for the next event when an undead army will spawn right outside Andorhall).
That would then lead from battle to battle to the choice of burning Stratholme (purely a choice as we all know Stratholme gets taken by the undead either way).
Going evil should probably be a choice but either way Terenas will probably die at the end of the RoC bookmark and Arthas becomes the king of roughly the same area while about half of it becomes the demesne of an enemy who declares war on you (image holy king Arthas fighting the Scourge of Lordy led by Baron Rivendare while Dar'Khan leads an undead army into Quel'Thalas (unless player is quel things will probably go as canon declares).
- Have Arthas not purge Stratholme
- Sylvanas not breaking away from Arthas
- Illidan not consume the skull of Gul'dan
- Thrall not leaving the camp but staying as a fighter for his captor
Sylvanas will probably always want to do it since she will be coded to do it unless the player is Sylvanas.

But that makes -3 sense since you would be a vassal of Arthas instead of your own liege.

And who wants that?

Either way in all those choices, as i stated earlier; even if the player choses to avoid the canon choice of someone then a placeholder character will most likely take his place, Might be Kael becomes the Lord of Outland and uses the Skull to bolster his own magical powers?
Might be Nathanos Blightcaller unites the Forsaken and rebells agains the Scourge?
Might be Grom leading the horde rebellion?
Might be Gul'dan became the Lich king after Ner'Zul won the second war and the horde rules Azeroth?
Why is there such a big priority on stopping non-canon things from happening? Ck2 is a game entirely based upon "well, what if this happened instead?" and stopping things from having wacky outcomes kind of ruins the fun of it all. The Zul'drak trolls taking over Northrend and then Railroading Lordaeron sounds exactly like something that would happen base game. The point of CK2 is that once you start a game, all bets are off on what could happen. Stopping that just kind of feels like you aren't making a CK2 mod and limits the gameplay which is just really bad design.
That would alienate the people who want to play as the Horde and railroad the alliance during warcraft 2 if the Drakkari by default will have so much time to wreck havoc during the warcraft 1-3 years and then conquering Lordaeron that when you get to it you suddenly face an empire owning half the world.
The point is not in limiting the player, YOU know that Northrend is there so you can take a boat and go explore it.
The point is that the AI should NOT railroad other AI just because blizzard made the factions loopsided and said "these people just sat here for 200 years".
AGOT, Geheimnisnacht, Elder Kings and even the Avatar mod are all based of fantasy worlds with established lore of what happens in the time period they are set in (AGOT - can change litterally everything, including where Aegon invades meaning the Seven Kingdoms are sometimes never made, Geheimnisnacht is set 500 years before the current events of warhammer but you can make it happen however you like, Elder Kings is in the same boat as Geheimnisnacht and the Avatar mod has actively been working to give the player more freedom.) but let the player mess about and do what they want because CK2 encourages freedom in. Giving the players less to do and encouraging stagnation in gameplay - Especially in CK2- is just really bad design.
Almost all the mods you named have set bookmarks and events controling a lot of what happens tho.
Even if you dont play Aegon he will still land somewhere, you get periodic messages of what stage he is currently in (e.g "THERE WAS THIS BIG DRAGON BATTLE AND SOMEONE DIED" popups), Geherimechnacht picked the 500 years early so they wouldnt have to deal with lore, there is no set lore of the time except what is established at the start, there are 4 emperors fighting and Vlad does his uprising.
That Vlad wins is almost 100% because a player is either Vlad or a shitty emperor.
Point is: after the start events of Vlad and the emperors there are no set bookmarks of time for hundreds of years and no known history.
The onyl thing known is that the main kingdoms are still the same 500 years later.
Warcraft on the other hand has a very set history that by canon allows very little change and still have set events over time.

Sure, we could do the Geherimenacht thing and start at e.g WoW start and then let people do what they want.

But that would make people whine that they want to play the orc invasion of Stormwind and the like.

Elder Kings is actually a very good example.

Because they did almost exactly what was planned.

Unless the player fucks something up by being a major faction and refusing to follow canon or cheating then things will unfold as the lore says they did.

Same applies here, you can take over the human kingdoms as the orcs while playing warcraft 2 bookmark then you can do that.

But if you play e.g the night elves then the orcs will lose and go to internament camps about 9/10 times.
If i want to create the Second Panda Empire and invade the eastern kingdoms during the troll wars and invade the eastern kingdoms, i should be able to (I'm aware that panda's will be a super late addition, these are just examples.)
You can do that.
The AI can not unite the panda empire and invade Northrend.
If i want to become the Gnome King of the Eastern Kingdoms and kill every other races, i should be able to do it.
You can.
Except the gnomes arent in atm.
And the Gnomes will probably never attack the dwarves unless player is dwarves or gnomes.
Having some arbitrary mechanic that says "No, you can't do this because it never happened." just completely sucks the life out of CK2 and is not what this game is about.
Not what i said >.>
I said they shouldnt be capable of doing it by base so the AI cant do it for no reason.

To be fair there are a lot of those limits in the vanilla game.
Vikings cant take over anything that aint scandinavia until the right year when they started raiding.
Indians are very limited overall since they didnt do shit.
loads of limits to CB regions except on the "fack dem heathens" CB types.
and so on and so on.
Also Outland and Draenor should never exist on the map unless there is a way to make them work really well.
There is, quite like it is in the EU4 mod and how Skavenblight/Under Empire is in Geherimechernachamachats, surround it by impassable terrain in the middle of the sea but say that some plot is connected to the Dark Portal plot.
The game does not know that they arent close to eachother (if they arent close it asumes its a ford crossing (dotted red line across water)) That makes people capable of walking from one plot to the other, you can code in how long it takes to walk between them and pretty much anything else you want.
All my own opinions ect, ect.
Opinions are good.
Never fret to yell them out to the world.
Unless yer a nazi.
Or and angry feminist with purple hair.
 
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