CK2 Dev Diary #29: Illumination

[Alcadizzar19]

So...heresies, sects, inquisition and possibly monastic orders?
Yes.
Yesss!

You're reading too much into it.

All @Doomdark said is that he is steadily watching his friends and coworkers be corrupted by sinister forces.

 

[loup99]

Good list on the whole @Chlodio , although there is of course more, but I'd like to comment on two things:

-Dynamic melting pots

What do you mean by this? Melting-pots were very confined to specific circumstances historically.

-Base value system

I don't think this should be a priority rather than looking at expanding prosperity, representing religious/cultural minorities and implementing trade goods.

 

[VoodooEconomist]

Hehe, classic scene. I've actually thought about adding a special tribute sound effect (but of course, Björn will have to confess his sins first and seek forgiveness.)

 

[the1ringer]

I hope this means more about heresies, as it almost certainly does. But I really want to see more of the monastic orders, whether playable or not. I want to know if my son became a Dominican/Franciscan/Augustinian and I want it to make a difference! This could be just the thing to get me to play Catholic Europe again, which I haven't for a couple years now.

 

[ahk528]

How so?

Dude do you know how big england actually is? In order to accurately represent the war of the roses in the game they would have to include more provinces, more titles more historical characters. I mean I guess they could still do it, without expanding the map but than it wouldn't be a really half assed version of war of the roses- especially if they just focused on England rather than all of europe because the other European powers did take part in the war of the roses. For there was the duchy of exeter, buckingham, somerset, earl rivers, i could go on and on with the titles and lands that are missing dude. Paradox would also than have to severely extend the timeline, not to mention add lands, titles, and historical characters for other countries.

I mean I honestly wish they would because I feel like they don't do a good job on representing the war of the roses in EUIV because it was more than just house of york vs. house of lancaster.

 

[Rationalsanity]

Not sure what you'd even add to CK2 at this point. I'm always interested and very glad to add more features, but I think I'm approaching the point where I'd like to see CK3 instead, with a fresh start. It's so hard to recommend this game anymore because of the sheer amount of expansions, feels like we need a new baseline.

I suspect that after CK2 is finished, CK3 will be a few years off. At the very least you'll see EU4 get wrapped up first, and probably see Victoria 3 in the mix (in between a plethora of HOI IV and Stellaris content of course).

Excellent DD today, really pumped for whatever comes next!

 

[nOxr]

Haha, I love this writing! Very good piece of work, made my day.

 

[TheDungen]

Eh? A conspiracy DLC? Is that in any way historical?

 

[VoodooEconomist]

Eh? A conspiracy DLC? Is that in any way historical?

What do you mean? Secretive religious societies were definitely a thing in history, long before the game's timeframe (also known as "mysteries"), and heresiarchs would be active long before they managed to gather enough public support to step out of shadows.

As for secular conspiracies... there's a system to plot against someone in the game and start factions

 

[RCHO]

EDIT: The Caduceus... that was a symbol of Mithraic mysteries, but that's too far off the deep end of the starting date, what else could it represent (aside from medicine of course)?

The Dev Diary suggests infiltration by Sethian Gnostics, which are from roughly the same time period.

 

[Imperator Yggdrasil]

This "dev diary" has me quite excited for what the team might be doing with this next expansion.
Expanded heresy gameplay? New religious plots? Playable theocracies (do I dare hope)?

 

[VoodooEconomist]

The Dev Diary suggests infiltration by Sethian Gnostics, which are from roughly the same time period.

It does, which baffles me a bit. Not as much as the inclusion of the inverted pentagram - the association of that symbol with anything sinister is a 19th century thing - but it all leaves me hoping for some decent Arianism then

 

[th3freakie]

If this does not bring new events spawning the courtiers Belbo, Diotallevi, Casaubon, Ardenti, Agliè and Lorenza, I will start a riot.

 

[LKA]

Expanded Manicheans would be great

 

[Grand Historian]

for I fear only the Dominicans can save us now, as they did in the times of Cardinal Torquemada, bless his soul...

A little off, but it'll do.

 

[Chlodio]

What do you mean by this? Melting-pots were very confined to specific circumstances historically.

Way I see it almost every area in Europe experienced some kind of melting pots.

Greek rule of the Egyptians resulted in partial Greco-Egyptian culture.

Roman rule of the Britons resulted in Romano-Briton culture.

rule of the Saxons over Romano-Britons, Angles and Jutes resulted in Anglo-Saxon culture.

Roman rule of the Gauls resulted in Gaul-Roman culture.

Frankish rule of the Gaul-Romans resulted in French culture.

Roman rule of the Celtiberians resulted in Hispano-Roman culture.

Visigothic rule of the Hispano-Romans resulted in Léonese culture.

Lombard rule of the Romans resulted in Italians.

Frankish rule of the Germanics resulted in High German culture.

High German rule of the Saxons resulted in Low German culture.

Norse rule of the Irish resulted in Norse-Gael culture.

English rule of the Irish resulted in Anglo-Irish culture.

Goidelic rule of the Pictish resulted in Scottish Gaelic culture.

Scottish Gaelic rule of the English resulted in Scott culture.

German rule of the Old Prussians resulted in Prussian culture.

Norse rule of the East Slavs resulted in Russian culture.

Need I say more?

I don't think this should be a priority rather than looking at expanding prosperity, representing religious/cultural minorities and implementing trade goods.

It would expand prosperity and disease out breaks. Currently none of it matters in long term. After the diseases leaves the province it is exactly same as before the epidemic. Worst epidemic should so much damage that it takes about a century to recover from.

 

[Bangkok Bill]

Step 1: Build a monastery.
Step 2: Get the monks to brew beer.
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Victory!

 

[Alcadizzar19]

Step 1: Build a monastery.
Step 2: Get the monks to brew beer.
Step 3: ????
Step 4: Victory!

Worked for Stella Artois.

 

[Macro Titanic]

Might the Caduceus hint towards a representation of Hermetic alchemy?

 

[TheDungen]

War of the Roses is something inherent to the concept of Crusader Kings II, a struggle about dynasties with powerful characters, and still in the (late) Middle Ages. And those pesky reasonings that this would conflict with EUIV timeline is just abusurd, CK2 should end at least in 1492, and all the 1300's and 1400's should be implemented. A special DLC for late game is highly needed.

A lot of struggles up until and including the reign of Charles V fits a lot better in the Ck2 engine.

Intriguing. Gnostics, heretics, forbidden knowledge -- can it be religion finally gets the attention it should?

Sons of Abraham added some good things to the game, but much more could have been done with religion, a driving factor of every day life in the game's timeperiod. If this DLC is about that -- excellent.

I hate thta term so much, forbidden knowledge, it's not like the game has far to much of that stuff already with all ctulu events.

-Cadet branches
-Autocratic government
-Dynamic melting pots
-Base value system
-Gunpowder units
-Something to portray Renaissance
-Name weighting
-Anything to portray naval battles
-More dynamic historical events

2.No idea what you mean with autocratic government, no ruler rules alone, it might be somewhat more possible today because of technological advancements, but back then, not a chance.
4. No a base system is the last thing the game needs, the growth system of CK is way better than the one in EU. That said I would like to see holding mechanics redone. I have posted about it in suggestions in the past.
5. Units at all, actually, the crossbow actually made a bigger change than the early gunpowder weapons did. Suddenly a farmer with no training could kill a charging knight.
7.If done well I can get behind a naval mechanic but if bothered like in Eu4 then I prefer not having one. CK2 represents naval matters better than EU4 does. Atleast CK2 doesn't treat navies like armies on water.

Secret heretical societies infiltrating and manipulating your kingdom? Illuminati DLC confirmed.

Be sure to include a high priestess called Hildegard Cliddon who cooks spirits and eats babies and etc.

You do know illuminati wasn't anything like that right? Nor even remotely in this period.
Also please keep the US election out of it.

Something like base tax, production and manpower from EU4. Basically each province would get a development value from 1 to 20. Higher development would unlock more holding slots, income and levies would be determined by development. Disease outbreaks and raiding would decrease development, while long prosperity would have potential to increase it.

So basically the prosperity variable they already introduced? I disagree that we need these base stats. I could populations, but abstracted values, those already exist, even if hidden (and since they are abstracted I prefer them hidden, what's the point of a number with no real meaning).

Dude do you know how big england actually is? In order to accurately represent the war of the roses in the game they would have to include more provinces, more titles more historical characters. I mean I guess they could still do it, without expanding the map but than it wouldn't be a really half assed version of war of the roses- especially if they just focused on England rather than all of europe because the other European powers did take part in the war of the roses. For there was the duchy of exeter, buckingham, somerset, earl rivers, i could go on and on with the titles and lands that are missing dude. Paradox would also than have to severely extend the timeline, not to mention add lands, titles, and historical characters for other countries.

I mean I honestly wish they would because I feel like they don't do a good job on representing the war of the roses in EUIV because it was more than just house of york vs. house of lancaster.

No you would not, EU4 handles the war of the roses with fewer provinces no sub province holdings and so on. It may not be a perfect representation but better than the one that eu4 does. And I think the idea is more to extend the the era for another 50 years or so and deal with conflict like those of that era than model any specific conflict. Quite frankly england already get's way to much stuff if you ask me, they have way to many provinces for their population already.

What do you mean? Secretive religious societies were definitely a thing in history, long before the game's timeframe (also known as "mysteries"), and heresiarchs would be active long before they managed to gather enough public support to step out of shadows.

As for secular conspiracies... there's a system to plot against someone in the game and start factions

Yeah but were they relevant? Important? Did they affect history in any significant way? And No I'm talking about them catering to the conspiracy crowd, Roland Emmerich style you know.

Might the Caduceus hint towards a representation of Hermetic alchemy?

Again except getting people to squander money on them did alchemy ever make a meaningful impact on history?


It's not that I mind these things but there are actually important mechanics that could use the work instead. Instead of catering to people's misconceptions about the past, and/or actual delusions of the past.