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CK2 Dev Diary #29: Illumination

By the grace of God, I am finally back and able to pen another development diary, though my hands are still unsteady from the shocking things I saw while in hiding. I think it best to simply recount my harrowing experiences of the last few weeks. For those with eyes to see and ears to hear, there is much to be learned from my travails.

For many months, I had felt that something strange was going on at the office. In hindsight, the signs were all there; colleagues naming their daughters “Sophia”, hushed talk of “secret knowledge” and Dan “podcat” Lind suddenly breaking off his presentation of the next Hearts of Iron IV expansion in order to explain how the Creator is just an “evil emanation of the original Monad”. But it wasn’t until Björn “Metal King” Iversen took me aside to listen to the subliminal messages in various Judas Priest tracks that I finally realized the truth: the company had been infiltrated by Sethian Gnostics! I recognized some of the messages from the Second Treatise of the Great Seth and the Gospel of Judas...

I suddenly did not want to help Björn record any more death sounds. Who knows how many souls he has helped “liberate” from this earthly prison in his infernal studio? He eyed me with suspicion when I assured him that I had already achieved Gnosis. Beating a hasty retreat, I was forced to skulk in various unused meeting rooms for a full week until I could finally make my escape. While in hiding, I witnessed many disturbing sights; people wearing inverted pentagrams and muttering to themselves, a secret follower of Mahomet performing an odd prayer ritual, various outlandish and no doubt fraternal handshakes, and worst of all; a vile heathen festival in the lunchroom involving spiderwebs, skulls and a bloody brew spewing smoke.

The rot runs deep. There are worse things afoot than mere Gnostic heretics... I fear there are several other corrupt sects burrowing like ticks within our ranks. How could this happen? What malign stars have aligned in the skies above our afflicted nation? Dark heresiarchs are at work in the Realm, pulling strings from the shadows and inducting naïve game developers into their subversive cabals. Who can feel safe in these dark times?

I have written the Holy See with a plea for aid. My sole hope lies in the Holy Father, Pope Francis, though I wonder if he is made of stern enough stuff to unleash the Hounds of God, for I fear only the Dominicans can save us now, as they did in the times of Cardinal Torquemada, bless his soul...

May God send us a light, for the darkness surrounds us!

symbol_collection.jpg
 
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Adding game play for learning based characters will make the game more fun. High learning characters may participate in such religious heresies and get others to join them.
 
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Oh my a gnostic heresy dlc? Manichaeism finally getting stuff perhaps? I've been wanting (and suggesting this for so long) I really hope this is about the gnostic heresies and Manichaeism
 
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Dude do you know how big england actually is? In order to accurately represent the war of the roses in the game they would have to include more provinces, more titles more historical characters.
For every war that happened during the CK2 timeline, you'd need to drastically increase the map and to add a ton of historical characters.
While I'd personally like every settlement to be represented, ranging from big cities to small one-camel towns, it's a tad bit unrealistic.
And the last thing I want is to have one region of the map represented in the fullest, while the rest remains the same as before.

England is perhaps big, but not bigger than Holy Roman Empire, or Arabian Empire, or Hungary... Why should England be a special snowflake? Yeah, I would like to see War of the Roses represented on a realistic map. But only if the entire map is realistic.
Until we get that, we can enjoy various events and decisions to simulate the War.
 
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OH MY GOD, IS THIS THE BEGINNING OF A RELIGIOUS REVAMP!?!?!?!?!?!??!
 
Yeah but were they relevant? Important? Did they affect history in any significant way? And No I'm talking about them catering to the conspiracy crowd, Roland Emmerich style you know.

The Cathars and Messalians didn't exactly reshape history either, and by the CKII era, the Zoroastrians had already played their (significant, of course) part in history. But all three are fan favorites for their idiosyncrasies and the challenge in making them major world powers. So adding more idiosyncratic religions and heresies makes sense, especially if they're fleshed out with their own quirks.
 
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I hope this includes monastic orders, along with the ability for them to control churches with a Abbey government as a contrast to bishops. (Ideally allowing ones ruled by abbesses as well.)

While it might be anachronistic symbolism, perhaps the pentagram portends the ability of characters with Voice of Satan to do something more interesting religious wise? I always want to be able to do more to promote Satan when I have such characters, and am disappointed when I can't. Other characters seem to also reach less than I'd like ("Oh, Satan talks to you? Well, that's only as bad as owning 3 too many counties, or divorcing my sister."), so anything that could amp up that conflict would be nice too. I'd expect some of the additions to take advantage of the Supernatural Events game rule, anyway.
 
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The Cathars and Messalians didn't exactly reshape history either, and by the CKII era, the Zoroastrians had already played their (significant, of course) part in history. But all three are fan favorites for their idiosyncrasies and the challenge in making them major world powers. So adding more idiosyncratic religions and heresies makes sense, especially if they're fleshed out with their own quirks.
Very well, provided they aren't to disruptive to those of us who prefer our history a but more realistic.
I find heresies the way they are in the game already enough. Not that they exist but that they are just a random annoyance rather than woven into the grander scheme of events.
 
Yeah but were they relevant? Important? Did they affect history in any significant way? And No I'm talking about them catering to the conspiracy crowd, Roland Emmerich style you know.


Again except getting people to squander money on them did alchemy ever make a meaningful impact on history?


It's not that I mind these things but there are actually important mechanics that could use the work instead. Instead of catering to people's misconceptions about the past, and/or actual delusions of the past.
Yes, they were. Cathars led to a crusade in *France*. Hussites began in the game'stime period. Lollardy was very important politically. The Shi'a were basically in hiding for much of the period, and the divisions among them, inner workings of the Fatimid, the split of Nizarism, the rise of the Druze and Alawi, all that changed the political landscape in which the Crusaders landed. There's much much depth to be added to the game by fleshing this out and making existing mechanisms more diverse!

As for alchemy, you do know where the term "chemistry" comes from, right? Not to mention the impact it had on the Muslim world as it was both caused by and increased the rate at which ancient Greek texts were translated! Discoveries in medicine, astronomy and egineering were spreading from that centre of knowledge and was one of the sparks that ignited the Renaissance in the West!

These are all really interesting subjectw with far-reaching cosequences and potential!
 
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Yes, they were. Cathars led to a crusade in *France*. Hussites began in the game'stime period. Lollardy was very important politically. The Shi'a were basically in hiding for much of the period, and the divisions among them, inner workings of the Fatimid, the split of Nizarism, the rise of the Druze and Alawi, all that changed the political landscape in which the Crusaders landed. There's much much depth to be added to the game by fleshing this out and making existing mechanisms more diverse!

As for alchemy, you do know where the term "chemistry" comes from, right? Not to mention the impact it had on the Muslim world as it was both caused by and increased the rate at which ancient Greek texts were translated! Discoveries in medicine, astronomy and egineering were spreading from that centre of knowledge and was one of the sparks that ignited the Renaissance in the West!

These are all really interesting subjectw with far-reaching cosequences and potential!
Yeah but nothing of it is like what the tone of the dev diary seems to suggest.

Heresies are not isolated incidents they drive historical change but are in turn driven by historical factors. Masonic conspiracies on the other hand is something else entirely.

And chemistry came to be to differentiate the real science from the snake oil salesmen. And all that stuff about lead to gold and immortality was just BS. Also which of the renaissance? There were four of them.
 
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@Doomdark will the supernatural event chains return with the bringing of the true light of faith in this shameful, sinful world of the flesh!
 
Honestly bringing supernatural events would mean delving into issues they really don't want to. I mean alchemy is one thing but religious supernatural events?
 
Yeah but nothing of it is like what the tone of the dev diary seems to suggest.

Heresies are not isolated incidents they drive historical change but are in turn driven by historical factors. Masonic conspiracies on the other hand is something else entirely.

And chemistry came to be to differentiate the real science from the snake oil salesmen. And all that stuff about lead to gold and immortality was just BS. Also which of the renaissance? There were four of them.
Well, much of the trial and error to reach the conclusion that the philosophers' stone and immortality are unattainable came in the pursuit of them. Scientifically, alchemy as a pursuit of knowledge came to plant the seed from which the modern scientific method and experimentation arose. Scholars such as Ibn al-Haytham, Al-Biruni and Avicenna (Ibn Sina) were drawing from the same well as more mystical alchemists, and Avicenna's (as well as al-Kindi's, Al-Farabi's etc) Neoplatonism influenced such people as Descartes. Alchemy was as much philosophy as it was science, and its propagation led to development in both! Just because the old was discarded doesn'ty mean it should be belittled or forgotten in hindisght, shoulders of giants and all that.

You might be right - if the devs indeed plan just a few flavourful events and flashy mini-mechanics with danbrownish or Discordian easter eggs, that'd be a waste of potential. To me this dev diary just seems as a teaser for what is yet to be announced though, so it is my hope that the topic of heresies will be touched upon in more detail than just that :) I mean, this is the first DD in a series, and the DLC likely won't come out before late December *at best*.
 
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I am curious what these symbols could mean.

I imagine the first one is Witchcraft as indicated by the pentagram; or could be even Satanism.

The second one... I am unsure. It's the Staff of Hermes. I doubt Hellenism is making it into the game in 769; but maybe Hermeticism...

And the third one is a Gnostic cross. Obviously Manichaeism comes to mind. It makes me wonder if we're getting a different religion grouping all together; Gnostic.
 
Well, much of the trial and error to reach the conclusion that the philosophers' stone and immortality are unattainable came in the pursuit of them. Scientifically, alchemy as a pursuit of knowledge came to plant the seed from which the modern scientific method and experimentation arose. Scholars such as Ibn al-Haytham, Al-Biruni and Avicenna (Ibn Sina) were drawing from the same well as more mystical alchemists, and Avicenna's (as well as al-Kindi's, Al-Farabi's etc) Neoplatonism influenced such people as Descartes. Alchemy was as much philosophy as it was science, and its propagation led to development in both! Just because the old was discarded doesn'ty mean it should be belittled or forgotten in hindisght, shoulders of giants and all that.

You might be right - if the devs indeed plan just a few flavourful events and flashy mini-mechanics with danbrownish or Discordian easter eggs, that'd be a waste of potential. To me this dev diary just seems as a teaser for what is yet to be announced though, so it is my hope that the topic of heresies will be touched upon in more detail than just that :) I mean, this is the first DD in a series, and the DLC likely won't come out before late December *at best*.
I disagree natural philosophy was in pursuit of truth not in pursuit of gold and immortality, yeah that may have been a side interest to some of them but no more relevant to what they did than Newton's beliefs in numerology.

I would love to see a mechanic for philosophical advancement to complement the technological advancement mechanic the game already has, but this seems a lot more "Dan Brown" than that.
 
There is an issue though, most medieval high magics were derived from gnostic texts.(I should know, I have published on medieval court magic :D) This sort of text, is based in the discussion of souls we see in the 2nd century texts, combined with the strong Judaic tradition of Solomon as a Sorcerer. Further, looking towards the occult would enable things like Kabalah for Jewish Characters :D
 
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